Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I might be a bit confused as to what actually constitutes a shooting attack, or makes it qualify as one. Isn't it any attack, including one given by a power like Lord of Storms, that a character uses against a target that the character isn't in close combat with?

So Imotekh's lightening happens during the shooting phase, he doesn't check range since the ability specifies the range is the entire table, he checks line of sight from the vantage point of the attack (straight down from above) and grants targets cover if they're in area terrain or have a cover effect going like smoke, he rolls to hit, then he rolls to wound and saves are taken etc. Does that mean it's a shooting attack? Moreover if it is doesn't that mean that if Imotekh is locked in close combat he can't make the attack? Since the FAQ specifies that Imotekh is the one doing the rolling since the Chronometron let's him reroll the lightening along with it's roll to hit doesn't that mean that since he's locked in cc he can't roll for the shooting attack?

EDIT: I'm not trying to imply it's a psychic shooting attack, I suspect I lack the terminology I require to ask the question, but what I want to know if it counts as shooting, and thus cannot be used if Imotekh is locked in CC.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe it is a psychic shooting attack unless it is specifically stated to be a psychic shooting attack. If it doesn't then it's just a psychic power.

EDIT: True, I wouldn't say this particular example if a psychic power at all, since there's no psychic test made.

It's not a PSA or a psychic power at all.

I have no input on if he can use it while in CC, however.

I'm not trying to imply it's a psychic shooting attack, I suspect I lack the terminology I require to ask the question, but what I want to know if it counts as shooting, and thus cannot be used if Imotekh is locked in CC. I play a Guard army, and if an outflanking unit charging Imotekh and locking him in CC for even a turn nullifies the lightening long enough for it to expire would be a major boon for fighting him. I mean it seems to follow the rules for a shooting attack, and it's him attack with it, and it's not a CC attack, so it's him shooting right?

It's not a shooting attack, psychic power or PSA. It's his special rule / ability. No roll to hit necessary or Psychic test required, it just "happens" in the Necron player's shooting phase. I don't see how tying him up in CC will stop his storm ability.

The stormlord makes a roll at the top of every turn to see if his storm persists that is no kind of preventable ability, he always does it as long as he's alive, even if he's in close combat or he started in reserve. The game starts as night fight and he makes persisting storm checks as long as you paid for him in your army list.
Technically it's the storm making the lightning strikes in the shooting phase, not the stormlord himself. The strikes also don't really come from any specific direction like 'above,' they just sort of happen and you only get a cover save if you're using an omnidirectional cover like area terrain or a bigmek's kff or a smoke launcher. Nothing in the ability description implies you get cover or los benefits if you're beneath something that blocks you from the sky, unless it is also area terrain.

Does the storm really go away if he dies? I thought it was just played as an army rule kind of like chapter tactics that persist even after the SM special character's death.

sudojoe wrote:Does the storm really go away if he dies? I thought it was just played as an army rule kind of like chapter tactics that persist even after the SM special character's death.

Yes, because the Necron FAQ made it HIS ability, by allowing a chronometron to reroll the roll to see if it continues

Additionally you CANNOT use powers from reserve, and cannot use "start of turn " "Start of movement phase" powers when you have just arrived from Reserves.

aww sweet! I gotta go tell my buddies to stop cheezing me with that guy now! (better go read the FAQ myself actually)

The lighting is not a shooting attack and does not come from Imotekh.

The lightning is an army wide effect caused by including Imotekh in your army. The FAQ allows you to reroll to continue nightfight (and the lightning) with a chronometron if the cryptek is in his unit (and in play).

The lighting and nightfight start first turn even if he is held in reserve.
Lightning does not come from him, so no cover saves.
Killing Imotekh or having him in close combat does not stop nightfight or lightning since he has still been "included in your army".

nosferatu1001 wrote:

sudojoe wrote:Does the storm really go away if he dies? I thought it was just played as an army rule kind of like chapter tactics that persist even after the SM special character's death.

Yes, because the Necron FAQ made it HIS ability, by allowing a chronometron to reroll the roll to see if it continues

Additionally you CANNOT use powers from reserve, and cannot use "start of turn " "Start of movement phase" powers when you have just arrived from Reserves.

I still disagree with this though. I'm fairly certain the wording is the same to the Vow's for Black Templar and I can't get rid of that army wide rule when I kill the guy that brought it.

Slightly off-topic but I was under the impression that the storm actually occured before the opponent's (meaning whoever is facing the necrons) movement phase.

For example: if I were to keep all my units in reserve the storm would have no effects on my army on turns 1 and 2 as there would be no one on the board at the beginning of those movement phases. Did my Necron buddy misread his rules? Is he supposed to use it during his shooting phase?

You roll to see if the rule continues to be in effect at the beginning of the necron turn, and you roll for lightning strikes at the beginning of your (necron owners) shooting phase. It's pretty straightforward in the codex so I'm not sure how he misread it.

Wow... Don't know either...

He's been playing it wrong for a while...

Nemesor Dave wrote:The lighting is not a shooting attack and does not come from Imotekh

Just to point out - the latter is the opposite of what the FAQ ruling means.

So, if the lightening comes from Imotekh per the FAQ then is it shooting and can't be used while he is in CC? If not, then what makes something coming from a specific unit shooting versus being an ability that emulates shooting?

Kiarou wrote:So, if the lightening comes from Imotekh per the FAQ then is it shooting and can't be used while he is in CC? If not, then what makes something coming from a specific unit shooting versus being an ability that emulates shooting?

The Lightning comes from a special rule of Imotekhs, it's not a shooting attack. Imotekh being in close combat has no bearing on it being used.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:The lighting is not a shooting attack and does not come from Imotekh

Just to point out - the latter is the opposite of what the FAQ ruling means.

Don't you mean the nightfight rule staying in effect?

There is no FAQ that states you can reroll the lightning by the chronometron. So I would say a chronometron can NOT effect the lightning rolls since they are an effect of the Lord of Storm ability. Imotekh is not shooting out lightnining, its caused by the "storm" over the battlefield.

Kiarou wrote:So, if the lightening comes from Imotekh per the FAQ then is it shooting and can't be used while he is in CC? If not, then what makes something coming from a specific unit shooting versus being an ability that emulates shooting?

The lightning doesnt come from Imotekh, however the roll to see if the lightning (and night fight) continues does. So it isnt affected by him being in CC, however if he is in reserve you cannot roll to see if the storm (and thus the lightning) continues.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Kiarou wrote:So, if the lightening comes from Imotekh per the FAQ then is it shooting and can't be used while he is in CC? If not, then what makes something coming from a specific unit shooting versus being an ability that emulates shooting?

The lightning doesnt come from Imotekh, however the roll to see if the lightning (and night fight) continues does. So it isnt affected by him being in CC, however if he is in reserve you cannot roll to see if the storm (and thus the lightning) continues.

About rolling for nightfight is where I (and others) disagree with you. If it works when he's in reserve, you can roll to continue it while he's in reserve. Before the FAQ there was no disagreement that rolling to continue the nightfight while Imotekh was still in reserve (or not in play) was allowed.

The FAQ added the ability to reroll for nightfight with a chronometron. You're saying that implies a change to the original way the rule was played. Any other changes are ones you're adding on your own that the FAQ does not address.

To the orignal poster: there is a whole other thread on this. The point being that if you and your buddy want to play it either way you should decide which you think is most fair. The rest is pretty much universally agreed on.

"If it works when he's in reserve, you can roll to continue it while he's in reserve"

No, because they have decided, about 3 places, that lord of storms IS an ability rolled for by Imotekh. Its NOT just the chrono ruling, as you know and dishonestly decided not to remember to put in your post, but repeatedly throughout the FAQ rolling to continue nightfight and the entire storm ability is linked to Imotekh

If he is in reserve, he cannot roll to continue it as he has no permission to use an ability while off table. Cf The High King where Logan was specifically allowed to use an ability while technically off table.

If he is dead, he does not get to roll it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:"If it works when he's in reserve, you can roll to continue it while he's in reserve"

No, because they have decided, about 3 places, that lord of storms IS an ability rolled for by Imotekh. Its NOT just the chrono ruling, as you know and dishonestly decided not to remember to put in your post, but repeatedly throughout the FAQ rolling to continue nightfight and the entire storm ability is linked to Imotekh

If he is in reserve, he cannot roll to continue it as he has no permission to use an ability while off table. Cf The High King where Logan was specifically allowed to use an ability while technically off table.

If he is dead, he does not get to roll it.

This is a conclusion you've made up that is not part of the FAQ.

The entire Lord of Storm ability is granted by your army including Imotekh. YOU roll to continue night fight. The FAQ (not Errata) states that you can reroll to continue nightfight if Imotekhs unit has a chronometron.

The basis of your argument is the FAQ saying "his roll" when the RAW state clearly that it is YOUR roll - there is no Errata. You can't just take the FAQ and add your interpretation "so that must mean...".

The FAQ allows chronometron to work on LoS otherwise, nothing has changed. Nightfight and the lightning otherwise do not need Imotekh to work, only that he was included in the army.

It was also my understanding that he has to be on the board.

Nemesor - the FAQ changed rules, shock.

Conistently they refer to it as HIS roll, meaning the more specific RAW wins.

Dont attempt to continue the argument here - you lost last time, you will lose here again, so just save time.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Nemesor - the FAQ changed rules, shock.

Conistently they refer to it as HIS roll, meaning the more specific RAW wins.

Dont attempt to continue the argument here - you lost last time, you will lose here again, so just save time.

Unfortunately for you, the tenets of this forum do not give any credit to the argument "You lost, I win".

You have a problem understanding the difference between a FAQ and an Errata. A FAQ clarifies how a rule is played, an Errata changes the actual wording of the rule. The FAQ's are not full of secret messages for you to pick out of the wording.

I'm sure the FAQ writers are not expecting anyone to look at a FAQ pick apart the words and apply them to other parts of the book.

The FAQ in question is about when you can use a chronometron ONLY. It is not about when you're allowed to reroll for night fight. The necron codex does that and gives certain conditions for the roll.

1) If night fight is in effect at the start of the turn roll to see if it continues.

Nemesor Dave wrote:You have a problem understanding the difference between a FAQ and an Errata. A FAQ clarifies how a rule is played, an Errata changes the actual wording of the rule.

FAQs can and do change rules. SitW and St. Celestine come to mind as examples.

I'm not getting involved in the discussion at hand, just pointing out that FAQs can change rules.

Nemesor - SitW. Oh look, you're wrong *again* about the FAQs GW puts out.

You still dont have a real argument.

<ENOUGH. nosferatu1001 & Nemesor Dave - you don't have to agree, but you DO have to refrain from derailing other threads with your personal baggage>