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How's this list look? Being used to IG and Ork list writing, I'm finding it surprisingly tricky to come up with a decent Space Marine list. The only thing I can insist on is that the Sniper Scouts, Ironclad and Assault Terminators have to be in there somewhere as I already have those models.

HQ

Captain
Artificer Armour
Relic Blade
Storm Bolter

Troops

10-man Tactical Squad
Meltabombs
Meltagun
Missile launcher
Rhino

10-man Tactical Squad
Meltabombs
Meltagun
Missile launcher
Rhino

10-man Tactical Squad
Meltabombs
Flamer
Missile launcher
Rhino

5-man Scout Squad
Sniper rifles
Missile launcher
Camo cloaks

Elites

5-man Assault Terminator Squad
Hammers/shields
Land Raider (standard) with multimelta

Ironclad Dreadnought
Assault launchers
Drop pod
Locator beacon

Fast Attack

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

TOTAL: 1748 POIINTS

The idea is that the Scouts inflitrate and the Captain can join the Terminators. I'm going for the standard Land Raider - it's a bit more anti-tank, after all. When the Drop Pod arrives its locator beacon can help the Land Speeders arrive. The Land Speeders are separate to avoid the potential drawbacks of taking a squadron, and hopefully they should take attention away from the Ironclad. I'm a little unsure about using a Drop Pod for the Ironclad, but I think it's probably better than having him footslogging.

Sniper Scouts infiltrating really isn't a good use of them. If you're going to take camo cloaked sniper scouts, you need to take some form of Techmarine, most likely a TFC, so you can get a 2+ cover save and sit on an objective.

The Captain as you have him is a nice unit, and I use to play with something similar, but he's a bit overcosted. You're paying 150 points (148 really, but those last 2 points are going to waste) for it, and it's not worth 150 points. If you have the Land Raider Rock, then just swap out for a standard Bolt Pistol Force Weapon librarian for 100 points.

Speaking of the Land Raider Rock, there's a saying. 1 is a target, 2 is a strategy. Land Raiders can get popped, and if you only have 1 it can leave everything down to a dice roll. At this low (ish) points level, running two might be a bit too expensive for the points, but either go big or go home.

I personally like putting combi-weapons on my tactical squad sergeants. Going from 1 melta shot to 2 really helps, same with 1 flamer shot to 2. That way you can take out the meltabombs and remain points neutral with increased effectiveness.

It also looks like you need more horde killing power. The HFs on the speeders are nice, but they're only going to get 1 shot like that. I would say TFC since it goes with the scouts, but your army doesn't sit back and shoot then that would probably be a bad decision.

Have you considered using Sternguard? They're amazing in my opinion at taking down pretty much everything but massed blobs of GEQ.

I'd prefer to avoid getting two Land Raiders - nothing to do with points, it's more because the kit is £41! I neglected to add, the reason the Captain is there rather than Librarian is because I have an unassembled Commander kit I'd like to use, but I have also been considering a Librarian...can't hurt to have both. Regarding the Techmarine, I'd rather not use up an elite slot just to give one unit a better cover save...

The combi-weapon idea is a good one and appeals more than the meltabombs (a last-minute addition).

As for the Land Speeders, they were again a last-minute addition. I could drop them and do some re-arranging. How about this:

Librarian
Terminator armour with shield

5-man Scout Sniper squad
Camo cloaks
Missile launcher

10-man Tactical Squad
Meltagun
Missile launcher
Rhino

10-man Tactical Squad
Meltagun
Missile launcher
Rhino

10-man Tactical Squad
Power weapon
Flamer
Missile launcher
Rhino

5-man Assault Terminator Squad
Hammers/shields
Land Raider (standard) with multimelta and extra armour

Ironclad Dreadnought
Heavy flamer (instead of storm bolter)
Assault launchers
Drop pod

EITHER

Ironclad Dreadnought
Heavy flamer (instead of storm bolter)
Assault launchers
Drop pod

OR

Replace flamer squad sergeant's power weapon with a locator beacon for the Dread pod

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Total: 1730 or 1740

The Librarian joins the Terminators. If two Dreads are used, they can land somewhere they can do a bit of damage on the turn they emerge, otherwise the Land Speeders can be. The combi-weapons were there until the last minute, but in the end I took them out, freeing up 30 points which I used to give extra armour to the Land Raider a power weapon to the sergeant of the flamer squad (reasoning that a flamer squad is more likely to get into a CC situation, though as you can see I would be willing to leave that out).

The power weapon for the tactical sarge is really not worth it's points, nor are the ironclad assault launchers. The terminator armor and storm shield also generally aren't really useful on a librarian if he's in a LR as he'll never leave it except to go out in a blaze of glory (and it will be glorious).
Most people also do not take extra armor on their land raiders. Even on a glance or a pen, there's only a 1/6 chance of it doing something. It can be useful, but a majority of the time it does nothing.

The combi-weapons are all more useful than these random upgrades you're paying for. Also if you haven't bought the models, I suggest staying away from a one-rock list like this. If you're like me and really like TH/SS Assault terminators, you can either hold them back as a counter-assault unit in a long-range army that hangs back itself, or run with Shrike to give them fleet and infiltrate (and thus outflank).

Again, 0 or 2 Land Raiders are both better than 1 Land Raider.

Judlst to add, something whoch no one has picked up on, i think you have too many troops.
with scouts, who can camp objectives, you only really need 2 tactical squads at this point level.
I'd be inclined to pick up some real fire power. A pred might find its way in here...

will take a better look when i get on the computer later (on my phone now)

@Lotus: I think 0, 1, or 2 LR all have their use. It depends on what you do. The common wisdom is without a delivery mechanism (GOI, Deep strike, LR), terminators are going to be kited. And this is true for all the games that I have been in wherein Termies are guarding points. They will never see any action.

@OP: no extra armour on the LR. If you feel like spending 15 points on that LR, get a Hunter Killer Missle, at least it will see more use. I also don't see all the options you pick for the Ironclad. I am sure you know that Seismic Hammer is a must.

Also, putting Assault Cannon or LasPlas Razorback instead of Rhino is a good idea. More damage than those Speeder and pack more punch too.

Ironclad Dreadnought should NEVER take assault launchers. For 5 pts more, you can get 2x HK missles which will guarantee that AV10 back armour will (Quantum shielding, DE transport, Pred, ...) is dead even if your Drop Pod doesn't arrive at the right place.

So here is some more promised feedback:

Agree with leohart, no assault launchers. Total waste imo.

LR Deathstar is perfectly viable. It makes your opponent have to think tactically for a bit. And gives your termies a one way ticket to curb stomping the enemy

As for a RB over a LS, i totally disagree. for 70 points, you have awesome anti-tank AND anti infantry weapons. Super mobile. Have 4+ cover save after flat out move. Can DS into opponents face.
With an RB, you sacrafice mobility for a small amount of anti-tank. Becomes two targets (RB and squad inside). more points than a LS, for a less effective role. Can only carry 6 models, meaning you restrict the dakka a tactical squad can bring. Cant shoot out.

@Zambro: He already got the Rhino, upgrading them to Razorback is only 35 points apiece.

LasPlas is anti-tank AND anti-infantry just fine. 6 boys in Razorback is enough. When was the last time you see a Rhino moving 6" so the guys inside can shoot out with 12" weapons? Rhino is for 12" + pop-smoke and hope for next turn charge/shoot.

I agree with you that LR Deathstar is a pecfectly viable one-way-ticket for the guys inside. Hey, if they want to focus all their MM on my LR, my Lascannon Pred and Vindicator will be screaming the entire game.

OK people, I've taken a look at everything, it's been a while since I actually played so maybe that was influencing my decisions with regard to things like the assault launchers. Anyway, here is yet another list I'm thinking of which is based heavily around deep striking, in keeping with my custom Chapter fluff (going for a "surprise attack" theme). I've added more melta too.

Captain (to be attached to Sternguard)
Artificer Armour
Relic blade
Combi-melta

Epistolary Librarian (to join Terminators)
Terminator armour

Tactical Squad (x10)
Combi-melta
Multimelta
Flamer
Powerfist
Drop pod
Locator beacon

Tactical Squad (x10)
Combi-melta
Multimelta
Flamer
Powerfist
Drop pod
Locator beacon

Scouts (x5)
Sniper rifles
Missile launcher
Teleport homer
Joined by Telion ("counts as")

Tactical Terminator Squad
Assault cannon

Sternguard (x8)
Drop pod

Ironclad Dreadnought
Heavy flamer (in DCCW)
Drop pod

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

TOTAL: 1715

Tactical Squads are brought in on the first turn, landing so that the occupants can gain a cover save or capture objectives (depending on game type). I'm trying to keep the Tactical Squads flexible, and I reason that if they have multimeltas and are using drop pods they can land close enough to potential targets for the multimeltas to be of some use. Would missile launchers be better? The combi-meltas are meant to be opportunistic weapons if vehicles get too close. The Scouts are to be infiltrated, and hopefully provide some support to the rest of the army with Telion helping them.

As I acquire the models I may switch between this list and one where the Tactical Squads use Rhinos and the Sternguard and Tactical Terminators are replaced by a Land Raider containing Assault Terminators.

I very much prefer this new list. Theres some stuff I dont like, but I like the vast majority of it. Sternguard from a drop pod is great. If you could give them all combi weapins (yes, all. Theyll still get their special ammo and the melta/plasma/flamer shot) that would be even better. I know finding combi meltas are hard, but its easy to convert a combi plasma out of a plasma pistol and bolter, and a combi flamer is easy to convert out of a flamer and a bolter.

Sternguard with combi weapons might be better with the first wave since they can easily pop lots of threatening units preventing them from firing back.

To be honest with you I'm considering dropping the power fists from the tactical squads. On the one hand, they can be a boost to the squad in CC, but on the other for the price of those two fists I could either have two more Sternguard or give my existing Sternguard those cheap combi-weapons.

Let's say I was able to free up 50 points to add to those Sternguard. Which of the following would suit them best, do you think:

1. Two more men;
2. One man+ some combi-weapons (recommendations welcome);
3. Just combi-weapons (recommendations welcome)?

Tactical squads should drop power fists and use that to get either 10-man sternguard w/ 6 combi-melta so you can combat squad out of the pod and blow up TWO things.

Nothing like the look of your opponent's face when you blow up both his Predators or both his Land Raiders, or both his Vindicators (you get the point).

In fact, it makes little sense dropping Sternguard without combi. The Captain should go with these boys because Sternguards will definitely be charged. Noone want to sit in rapid fire range of 10 guys with AP3 weapons or Hellfire weapons.

Epistolary will see very very little use. I suggest dropping that and 1 fist so you can make 10-man Sternguard + 6 combi-melta.

Huh...looking back I'm not really sure why I had the Epistolary upgrade, given the Librarian's role. Dropping that would certainly free up more options. However, I also have to ask myself: what is his role? I'm not really seeing a great deal that he's contributing. If I took him out I could get two more Sternguard, combi-weapons for all of them and another Land Speeder, and that's before the powerfists are gone!

Is there really any need to add power fists/swords to a tactical squad? Would there be any benefit to swapping those two fists for swords, or are you better to leave power weaponry out of the tactical squads altogether?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Captain (to be attached to Sternguard)
Artificer Armour
Power sword
Combi-melta

Tactical Squad (x10)
Combi-melta
Multimelta
Flamer
Power fist
Drop pod
Locator beacon

Tactical Squad (x10)
Combi-melta
Multimelta
Flamer
Power fist
Drop pod
Locator beacon

Scouts (x5)
Sniper rifles
Missile launcher
Teleport homer
Joined by Telion ("counts as")

Tactical Terminator Squad
Assault cannon

Sternguard (x10)
10 combi-weapons
Drop pod
Locator beacon

Ironclad Dreadnought
Heavy flamer (in DCCW)
Drop pod
Deathwind launcher
Locator beacon

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

Land Speeder
Multimelta
Heavy flamer

TOTAL: 1750

Here I've removed the Librarian and made a few more savings across the list, with the result that I can afford 10 Sternguard and 3 Land Speeders. I'm not sure about that Deathwind launcher, throwing large blasts around near deep-striking units. I'm alos not sur eif every pod needs a beacon; I'm trying to give my deep-striking units as much choice as possible, but I don't know if that's really necessary.

Deathwing launcher. One => no. Two => no. Three => maybe. Four or more => might be viable.

Librarian with Null Zone is the best HQ in the book, if you only have 1 HQ so far, make sure to get librarian. I can tell you that Null Zone annoys a lot of people. Google will tell you the same. So please put him back. It only costs 100 pts anyway.

If he dons the terminator armor, you should consider giving him SS and Vortex of Doom. If he doesn't have termies armor, Null Zone and Avenger is the way to go.

You almost never want 10-combi weapons. Even without Vulkan, 3 combi-melta will wreck a Land Raider. 3 combi-melta has a 90% chance of at least one glance. So bringing 10-combi is over kill in most cases. If you can afford it, sure. But most people only bring 3 per 5-man.

The point of a 10-man combi weapon squad is so you can combat squad it and go for different targets. I tend to do half combi-plasma and half combi-melta. Combi-melta for obvious reasons, and combi-plasma because there are some things that have both a high toughness and an insanely good armor save that I want gone immediately, or just GK stuff. Remember you combat squad on deployment, so you can decide what guys with what weapons go to which combat squad then.

@Lotus: Certainly. I did mention combat-squadding upon jumping out of Drop Pod as well. Just that 10 combi-melta is too much. 3 for 5. 6 for 10.

You should drop the teleport homer from the scouts. They have rifles, and so will be sitting back most game. Why DS back there, when you have other units in their face?

You also have a problem with your Drop Pods too. You have 4, meaning at the end of turn 1, you will have 2 units facing the entire army in Rapid fire or Charge range. They wont last long. I agree, if you pick the right units to drop, then you will wreck alot of things, but ultimately, they will be suicide units.

An epistolary librarian in power armour would be awesome in a squad with the sternguard. Give the libby Force Dome and Null Zone, and you can both protect your vets and make it easier to kill units with an invuln save. Because you have an Epistolary, you can also take GoI, just to remove the squad from immediate danger.

Now, your Tactical squads will NEED something in CC. Lets face it, your dropping in their face, the enemy WILL charge. Even if you dont want the power fist, a power weapon is still perfectly fine. I prefer a PF, just incase an MC, or dreadnought ect charges my squad.

You only really need locator beacons on your alpha striking Drop Pods. That way, you can drop in right next to them and help out.