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HI

Going in a competition with friends and the winner gets $50, we each chip in 10 dollars.

HQ

Techpriest Enginseer = 45

Troops

Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 4 = 50
Infantry Squad; Commissar with pwr weapon = 95
Infantry Squad; GL = 55
Infantry Squad; GL = 55


Infantry Platoon

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 4 = 50
Infantry Squad; Commissar with pwr weapon = 95
Infantry Squad; GL = 55
Infantry Squad; GL = 55

Heavy Support

Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
Griffon Heavy Mortar x 2 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150

TOTAL 1005

What do you guys think ? Will this be able to win objective games as well as annihilate ?

Enemy armies are ; Blood angles with descent of angles, tyranids, ultramarines, orks with ghazghull

I think four Griffon's be a bit much - one squad of two is fine for most games. I would drop a squad.

I would also swap out the Techpriest for something more useful, like a CCS for ordering all your infantry. Give the CCS something to make them useful, like a lascannon, or a Master of Ordnance.

The infantry could do with more punch; two GL's per platoon is pretty poor. Either add more Power Weapons, or meltagun/autocannon.

Remaining points could get you something to get into the enemy DZ, like Marbo or a small suicide melta Storm Trooper squad.

How about then ;

HQ

Lord Commissar with Camo Cloak = 80
Lord Commissar with Camo Cloak = 80

Troops

Infantry Platoon A

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 4 = 50
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60


Infantry Platoon B

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 4 = 50
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150

TOTAL 990

Second list seems quite good, you won't really need any longe range anti tank, but with the tyranids, you might struggle with mc as you probably won't get a shot off with the melta guns. As that twelve inch range, it's either it's your turn when your in range and you get the shot off, or it's your opponents turn and he assaults. That's just my opiion, so maybe swap one of the platoons to two lascannons and a melta instead of 3 meltas?

I'm not sure how useful the platoons are going to be without power weapons and the like. It almost seems like you're trying to run power blobs without the power weapons.

You guys are right - how does this look now ?

HQ

Lord Commissar; Camo Cloak, power weapon = 90
Lord Commissar; Camo Cloak, power weapon = 90

Troops

Infantry Platoon A

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 2 = 40
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60


Infantry Platoon B

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 2 = 40
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60
Infantry Squad; MG = 60

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150

TOTAL 1070

You are 70 points over. I don't think would fly especially when your gambling. Three tanks may be hard to deal with but your infantry and HQ choices are just terrible.

I'd recommend either two power blobs with the three tanks and a ccs, or three power blobs with three griffons and a ccs. Personally I'd go with the griffons.

Ok - how about I drop one of the platoons and add in ...

HQ

Lord Commissar; Camo Cloak, power fist, melta bombs = 100

Elites
5 x ratlings = 50

Troops

Infantry Platoon A

Platoon Command Squad; Flamer x 4 = 50
Infantry Squad; Seargent with power weapon, melta bomb = 65
Infantry Squad; Seargent with power weapon, melta bomb = 65
Infantry Squad; Seargent with power weapon, melta bomb = 65

Veterans; 3 x MG, Chimera with HHF and multilaser = 155

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150
Leman Russ Battle Tank; HF x 1 = 150

TOTAL 1000

Why the HF on the LR? You really want your tanks that close?

I don't know about the ratlings. I like the models, and I like the idea of them, but in 5th edition sniper rifles are just not very good at all. Every time I've brought ratlings they just haven't done very much of anything.

With 50 pts you could get a scout sentinel with lascannon. You could have 5 rough riders if you shave 5 pts off somewhere else (one less meltabomb in the blob?). Not sure what else to suggest.

I wanna try out the ratlings, I have seen sniper rifles used to great effect with rending and mashing up transports

I could drop the ratlings and a melta bomb or something and that would be enough to take marbo

The commissar is to make the power blob a powerblob and give them a better save

The HF on the LRBT is for then they get weapon destroyed I can then rush whats left of them over as a counter assault unit with a heavy flamer and armor 14/12/10

Still makes more sense to me to leave on the Heavy Bolter, if you're firing at troops at least the HB will do some extra damage and you're better off at range, far from the meltas and Power Klaws!

How about this then to bring the big fidy home ($50)

HQ
Lord Commissar; Camo Cloak, Power Sword = 90

Troops
Platoon Command Squad; 4 x Flamer = 50
Infantry Squad; MG, Power Sword = 70
Infantry Squad; MG, Power Sword = 70

Platoon Command Squad; 3 x Flamer = 45
Infantry Squad; AC = 60
Infantry Squad; AC = 60
Infantry Squad; AC = 60

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165

TOTAL 1000

sumi808 wrote:How about this then to bring the big fidy home ($50)

HQ
Lord Commissar; Camo Cloak, Power Sword = 90

Troops
Platoon Command Squad; 4 x Flamer = 50
Infantry Squad; MG, Power Sword = 70
Infantry Squad; MG, Power Sword = 70

Platoon Command Squad; 3 x Flamer = 45
Infantry Squad; AC = 60
Infantry Squad; AC = 60
Infantry Squad; AC = 60

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165

TOTAL 1000

Two random questions I've noticed by reading your lists you've posted so far. First, do you have something against CCS? They're probably the best HQ choice you can get, especially with all the infantry you've got. Secondly, you seem deadset on 3 tanks. The second one is perfectly fine (heck, I've been wanting to do this a lot too) but the first just seems like a wierd choice. Yes, the commissar Lords get you a 3+ cover save, but you lose all the good orders in the process. Those orders are part of what make platoons really shine, so it seems odd to shun them.

Your platoons are getting there, but still seem slightly off. If you're really wanting a 2 platoon, lots of tanks style list, here's one I was thinking of
trying. You could easily tweak this, for example, switching the CCS's lascannon for 2 meltas, or taking the 2 griffons and making them a medusa, another Leman Russ Battle tank, or even throwing in something like a Basilisk. These platoons are also a lot more flexible, as both can either be part of a gunline, or get in close and do some damage. They may have lower numbers, but with proper use of orders, and some smart deployment, these two could easily handle most threats. Also, if you're worried about stuff like deep striking and outflanking, dropping 30 points to get an Officer of the Fleet wouldn't be a bad idea either.

* Company Command Squad (70pts)
Lascannon

+ Troops + (480pts)

* Infantry Platoon (240pts)
* Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Meltagun, Sergeant w/ Power Weapon
* Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Meltagun, Commissar w/ Power Weapon, Sergeant w/ Power Weapon
* Platoon Command Squad w/ Mortar

* Infantry Platoon (240pts)
* Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Meltagun, Sergeant w/Power Weapon
* Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Meltagun, Commissar w/ Power Weapon, Sergeant w/Power Weapon
* Platoon Command Squad w/ Mortar

+ Heavy Support + (450pts)
* Leman Russ w/ heavy bolter (150pts)

* Leman Russ w/ heavy bolter(150pts)

* x2 Griffon w/ heavy bolter(150pts)

As I have said in other threads, the Lord Commissar is great if you have a lot of foot units - which you do - simply for the ld10 and stubborn. You can position him in such a way (at the rear) that he wont get picked off by assassins or singled out in CC.

However, i'd never take him as the sole HQ choice. In this kind of list orders to twin-link (bring it down!) is extremely useful for those autocannons, along with 'first rank fire!' when anything get's within range of your blobs lasguns. So a CCS is essential in my opinion.

x4 Griffons is definitely excessive. I have tried running 3 Griffons in a similar 1000pt list, and it just doesn't seem to work. They only work in a support role to soften things up - which they do extremely well for at 75pts - so using 3 didn't work out. The remaining 150pts can be used better elsewhere.
Honestly i'd just take 1 Griffon and 1 Hydra for your artillery. Or 1 or 2 Griffons. But definitely not 3 or 4.

I would also probably drop a Russ and add a Vet squad with meltas or plasma in a Chimera - it gives you some mobility and they can contest objectives and possibly hold them until your infantry arrive.

One thing your lists all have a lack of is long range anti-tank (a fundamental weakness with Guard tbh). If you are gonna run with a Lord Commissar then i'd put it within 6" of a Lascannon HWS, obviously with both in cover. It makes the HWS much more durable.

I'm thinking something like this since you wanna go Hybrid.

HQ:
CCS w/lascannon 70pts

Troops:
PCS w/mortar: 35pts
30 man blob, x3 autocannons, x3 power weapons, commissar: 245pts
20 man blob, x2 lascannons, x2 power weapons, commissar: 195pts

:475pts

x1 Vet melta w/ Chimera: 155pts

:630pts

Heavy Support:
Griffon 75pts
Hydra 75pts
LRBT 150pts

Total: 1000pts


Here you'd have enough lascannons to get the job done against those tough units (Av13-14) since you have a CCS who can twin-link them. You'd have a lot of autocannons in the 30 man blob that can again be twin-linked with orders along with a Hydra as a back-up/support (which is also death to skimmers). That's 10 autocannon shots per turn that have a good chance of being twin-linked: They should do the job against any transports, infantry and light vehicles/skimmers.
If your lascannons don't get the job done against those high AV targets you have a back-up option in MeltaVets in the Chimera who can go after them. They can also plant themselves on objectives and you can work them as counter-assault if your blobs get threatened by things like Termies.
Finally, you have the ever reliable Griffon that can drop pie plates on horde armies (Orks and Nids) (The PCS also has a mortar for this puprose), along with the LRBT that will kill anything not in cover or Terminator Armour.

I'm probably gonna run with this list my next few games as I want to experiment with a list like this that doesn't include Colonel Straken (who I love for counter-attack and furious charge, and because he is an absolute beast!) for once.

Looking at the list that fifteen hours just post is very good and very do-able. the only thing i can think of that would be better off is if you prefere high Str pie plates, drop a manticore in there, the D3 plates per turn is just leathal and agasint horde armies in my opinion is a mut because it just blows chunks out of the infantry and can make large dents in armour aswell. the only thing i dont get is why the 30man and 20 man blobs and not just 2x20 man blobs and 2x vet squads? only one vet squad in a chimera surely will get targeted first since most players know how deadly melta vet's are?

Yes I usually run 2 Chimera melta vet squads instead of one, but I have just been thinking of experimenting with a list that drops Colonel Straken and adding a Leman Russ and then kitting out the blob with lascannons instead of just entirely autocannons. So I came up with this list after a lot of thinking and some play testing last night.

I see your point with only have 1 vet squad in a Chimera, it did cross my mind too: You are right it could be targeted quite early on in the game and I have heard people say that you should always take a minimum of 2 meltavets in chimeras if you wanna go that route, otheriwse they simply won't get through and do any damage and will get killed early. Not sure if that is always the case, but I accept it could be a problem.
But on the other hand, if you just keep the MeltaVets back behind some cover just ahead of the blobs, you can then pounce on anything that is a threat to the infantry: So a pure counter-assault role in this case.

Manticores seem great and plenty of people seem to like them - I just haven't played with them yet because i'm having so much success with Griffons and Hydras. So honestly I can't comment on them.

The reason for having an 'uneven' 30 and 20 man blobs is for a couple of reasons: Having 50 men side by side gives you a tremendous field presence, believe me when I say your opponent will sometimes not be able to ignore the mass of men and will often become so preoccupied with it that they wastefully send expensive units to try and neutralise it. That's a good thing because then they forget about Chimeravets outflanking them and your other units such as Russ's and your artillery blasting away at them.
Second reason is quite simply that it adds to the durability of the autocannon blob. And Autocannon blobs are great against everything except Av13-14.

It still works with just 20 and 20 as you say and then 2 meltavet squads. The only difference with this list is that I dropped one of the meltavet squads in favour of a Russ, and the remaining points happened to be 70pts, which happens to be the exact amount needed to make the autocannon blob an extra 10 men, autocannon and power weapon. So it just made sense really - make the autocannon blob stronger and give 2 more shots per turn.

HQ

Company Command Squad
4 x Grenade Launchers
Master of Ordinance

Dedicated Transport

Chimera
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber

Troops

Veteran Squad
3 x Melta Guns

Dedicated Transport

Chimera
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber

Veteran Squad
3 x Grenade Launcher
Missile Launcher

Dedicated Transport

Chimera
Heavy Bolter
Heavy Stubber

Fast Attack

Vendetta Gunship


Vendetta Gunship

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Vanquisher Tank
Lascannon


how about something more like this at 1000pts? maybe move arouns the points a bit and add in a lascannon to the vets

The more I look at the last list Sumi posted, the more I see that it might have a shot. I would give it a whirl sumi and see what weaknesses it has, then you can know for sure what you might need to swap out.

As it sits, it looks like it needs some long range firepower, but if you can close the distance that might make it a non issue. 3 demolishers takes up almost half your points, but at the same time, thats 3 demolishers your opponent has to kill. If you can get your opponent to focus on your tanks, it'll take some heat off the platoons. The only problem is that plan contains a lot of "ifs", which I never like to see in my lists. It's your call though man, good luck!

sumi808 wrote:I wanna try out the ratlings, I have seen sniper rifles used to great effect with rending and mashing up transports

Make sure you have a Lord Commissar near them for the LD or a CCS nearby to order "Get back in the fight" when they get shot at and run away.

I also found that yes it is nice that they have scouts... but moving them forward away from my gunline guard army left them isolated and exposed. I might have had better luck with them just sticking them in my line.

~Lion~

Yeah honestly that is too many 'ifs'...

Also, considering that those infantry squads are going to have to move onto objectives, they are going to have to soak up a lot of damage, and the Lord Commissar is going to have to advance behind them if they want ld10. He won't survive if he's forced out into the like that. Once he's dead the squads are going to be easy to sweep away due to a lack of ordinary commissars.
Also, with no CCS, those 3 autocannons are only going to hit half the time without any orders. So that's only a poor 3 hit average per turn. I'd say that coupled with the Lord Commissar being so exposed and the lack of long range firepower is a significant weakness.

But hey, you never know until you try these lists. They can look good on paper but perform badly and vice-versa. It could be that your opponent is so worried by the 3 Demolishers he uses all his firepower on them whilst ignoring your troops.

Good luck!

FifteenHours wrote:As I have said in other threads, the Lord Commissar is great if you have a lot of foot units - which you do - simply for the ld10 and stubborn. You can position him in such a way (at the rear) that he wont get picked off by assassins or singled out in CC.

However, i'd never take him as the sole HQ choice. In this kind of list orders to twin-link (bring it down!) is extremely useful for those autocannons, along with 'first rank fire!' when anything get's within range of your blobs lasguns. So a CCS is essential in my opinion.

Small correction, Lord Commissars don't grant stubborn. They give fearless to the own unit, and Ld 10 for 6" around, but it's modified as usual therefore not much use to blobs, neither is attaching him to a blob. Not only will he die quickly, making them fearless will mean you'll take armour saves for however much you lost by. More often than not it'll be enough to kill off your blob, so defintely don't stick him in one.

He's useful for getting Ld10 for orders though, I have a 1k list atm that features him and a CCS practically gaurenteeing twin-links. At a high enough points level, you can bring Creed along too for 4 orders. That's 12 twin-linked lascannons per turn.
Anyway Sumi I think you need to decide what your list is. Do you want to bring a hell of a load of vehicles to the board? You can bring 5 Chimeras to the board and a couple of Russes at that level. Going by the opponants you've listed, BA can be bitch-slapped by bringing a Master Of The Fleet, giving -1 to his reserve rolls (though he'll still get the re-roll from Descent of Angels). Tyranids I've never played against but I gather they have no ranged AT so you should be fine, Orks unless highly-optimised (unlikely since it sounds like these are casual players) will do naff-all against your mech, the only ones who could cause problems are Ultramarines. They can bring a lot of long-ranged Anti-Tank to the table, but it depends entirely on what your opponant brings. Either way, mech guard is probably your strongest bet. Problem is, getting that many chimeras. They may not be available to you.

Other alternative is infantry-based gun-line guard. Bringing as many guns to the table as you can and using Orders to make the most of them. Seems like you might be trying to do this, seeing as you bought platoons, but they're not very well optimised. Generally I like to expand the efficiency of orders at the expense of durability, and bring lots of heavy weapons teams with lascannons. Generally though I find it a waste of points to try to make HWT killy against infantry. Instead give your Platoon Command Squads plasma guns and get Special Weapon squads with plasmas.
Then you'll want to optimise orders because those things are badass and grossly under-rated on dakka. The Imperial Guard can have rapid-firing BS4 Plasma Guns shooting that will make the enemy re-roll cover saves. This is a huge deal, since cover is the one variable that is almost always static. You immediately halve your opponant's chance of success. It's absolutely devestating to enemy MEQ, the more expensive the better. So you'll want to stick voxes in the squads that can take them, usually the company/platoon command squads, since these will have the special weapons in them. You can also give voxes to a blob (just give one of the squads a vox, it'll count for the whole blob), since if you can gaurentee successfull Back In The Fight order it means you can safely go to ground for a 3+ cover save. If you have the points you can grab a Lord Commissar with a cammo cloak and try to position him central to your HWT set-up. Have him join one of them to grant it 3+ cover, 2+ with GTG, and give the other HWT Ld 10 for orders/morale checks.

An obvious problem with this list is the amount of infantry models you'll need, as well as HWT. A 1k list can easily have 12.
To give you an example of a foot guard list, here's one I'm working on. It has too many Lascannon HWT though so will probably drop one and get a plasma Special Weapon Squad.

CCS: 50, melta*4-40, MOTF-30 : 120
Lord Commissar, cammo cloak: 80

Platoon Command: 30, plasma*4: 90
Infantry Squad: 50
Infantry Squad: 50
HWT 60, lascannon*3 : 105
HWT 60, lascannon*3 : 105
HWT 60, lascannon*3 : 105

Platoon Command: 30, plasma*4: 90
Infantry Squad: 50
Infantry Squad: 50
HWT 60, lascannon*3 : 105
Note the MOTF in the CCS since one of my potential opponents is a Blood Angel. In fact I'm probably playing this list tomorrow, will let you know how it goes.

Joey wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:As I have said in other threads, the Lord Commissar is great if you have a lot of foot units - which you do - simply for the ld10 and stubborn. You can position him in such a way (at the rear) that he wont get picked off by assassins or singled out in CC.

However, i'd never take him as the sole HQ choice. In this kind of list orders to twin-link (bring it down!) is extremely useful for those autocannons, along with 'first rank fire!' when anything get's within range of your blobs lasguns. So a CCS is essential in my opinion.

Small correction, Lord Commissars don't grant stubborn. They give fearless to the own unit, and Ld 10 for 6" around, but it's modified as usual therefore not much use to blobs, neither is attaching him to a blob. Not only will he die quickly, making them fearless will mean you'll take armour saves for however much you lost by. More often than not it'll be enough to kill off your blob, so defintely don't stick him in one.

He's useful for getting Ld10 for orders though, I have a 1k list atm that features him and a CCS practically gaurenteeing twin-links.

Yeah that's true he doesn't grant stubborn unless he's attached to a squad.

As him not being very useful for blobs, that isn't always true. If you are running a large fairly static blob in hammer and anvil type lists - say 30-40 sized - or gunline lists then you can attach and keep at the rear protected by a PCS or Straken in a CCS. Of course CC is a problem as he could get singled out. You could always run a normal commissar in there too though. 105pts seems expneisve but if you have a gunline it's arguably worth it by making HWS's more durable and orders to twin-link being virtually guaranteed.
And yes he is very useful for the orders system as they get to use his ld10.

Point is, he isn't as useless and overpriced as people like to claim if you use him with the right lists.

Anyway, i'd honestly go Hybrid mech/blob. But that's just me. Too many people expect Mech these days in my opinion and i just find it a bit cheesey.
Good luck again Sumi with whatever you decide to run with. Tell us how it goes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey Sumi,

If it's any help I had 2 games tonight with the latest list I posted. One against Space Wolves and one against another Guard army! I won both pretty decisively.
The Space Wolves list was the typical rhinos and razorbacks, with grey hunters, melta and a wolf guard powerfist, with 2 squads of long fangs and a rune priest. I found that the autocannons and lascannons and hydras popped the rhinos/razorbacks, then the griffon and russ dropped pie plates on the survivors.
The guard player was using two 30 man blobs with Straken and a Russ. The lascannons took out the Russ in turn 2 after twin-linking with orders. Maybe lucky. Maybe not.
I then found that the Griff and LRBT found it quite easy to deal with his blobs and the two heavy weapon squads he had were dealt with by my Hydra and the 30 man autocannon blob. He conceded in turn 3.
I can conclude this definitely works against space marines. The ranged AT seemed to be the decisive factor...I will run this list a few more times as i'd like to try it against Eldar or DE, and i'm considering using this as my new competitive list if it performs well over 5 games.
Not saying it's awesome or anything or you should use it (still needs more testing) - but it looks promising so if you want to take anything from it and adapt it for your tournament...It might work for you. Since you and MrMoustaffa are using similar lists just thought you'd appreciate the feedback.

Regards,

FH

I having read this posting awhile im starting to miss my guard.... and a mate at works just said i can have his for cheap so im really tempted to play....

And the new (ish) devil dog etc look fun to play with... sod it im gonna do it now. esp seeing as I'm painting Colour Sergeant Kell for a possible painting competiton but i dont think my skills are quite that good yet :-P

Fifteen you'll have to tell me how that list works out for you dude i might nab it to tweak and see what I can do with it :-).

Oh and sumi you never did say what kind of model count your looking at. so all the lists posted could be awesome to use but unless you can get the models for them its a bit pointless ;-/

Well I really need to cut down on 40k as I have a lot of stuff to do for uni in the next 2 weeks, so unfortunately probably won't be able to test it again until then. lol
I do quite like it though. I would consider dropping the Chimera Melta Vets entirely from it and perhaps adding another Hydra and an extra 10 infantry with lascannons. Or even another Russ. But I think having the vets gives some much needed mobility and back-up anti-tank options. Then again i'm not sure how long they can really survive by themselves.
If I had a vendetta I would consider using that as a gunship instead of the vets.
Think this has a lot of potential for variation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe something like this:

HQ:
CCS w/lascannon: 70pts

CCS w/ x4meltaguns: 90pts (in the vendetta)

Troops:
PCS w/autocannon: 40pts
20 man blob, x2 autocannons, commissar: 155pts

PCS w/autocannon: 40pts
20 man blob, x2 lascannons, commissar: 175pts


Fast Attack:

Valkyrie Vendetta: 130pts

Heavy Support:
Griffon 75pts
Hydra 75pts
LRBT 150pts

Total: 1000pts

Whack the CCS with meltas in the vendetta. Fly at Av14 and shoot! Maybe deep strike it.

If that fails or there is more hard targets to crack, you have the x2 lascannons in the blob to twin-link and use along with the lascannon in the CCS.

Griffon and Russ are clearly on anti-infantry duties.

Hydra and autocannon blobs and PCS autocannons can either perform transport/light-vehicle popping or anti-infantry duties.

Might try this one too on vassal 40k as I don't have a vendetta yet.

sumi808 wrote:How about this then to bring the big fidy home ($50)

HQ
Lord Commissar; Camo Cloak, Power Sword = 90

Troops
Platoon Command Squad; 4 x Flamer = 50
Infantry Squad; MG, Power Sword = 70
Infantry Squad; MG, Power Sword = 70

Platoon Command Squad; 3 x Flamer = 45
Infantry Squad; AC = 60
Infantry Squad; AC = 60
Infantry Squad; AC = 60

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165
Leman Russ Demolisher HF = 165

TOTAL 1000

Lets break this down. The commissar isn't a bad choice but you need to have a CCS so that you can use orders better so that you can have a better chance to survive horde armies.
First platoon, melta guns aren't bad but what blobs face mostly is assault so for the most part useless till they are in that range. The Sargents are fine for blobs. Second platoon, good anti infantry there, but this is where CCS's are good because you can make orders that can re-roll cover or make them count as twin-linked. Only issue though is that you have 2 squads in first platoon 3 in second. Instead you could have two vet squads with the platoons so that they can contest objectives or be a meat shield so the blobs can get a round of shooting before assaulting or being assaulted which is not suggested in ANY WAY but a 20 v. 1 in your favor or other similar ratios. On to the heavy support, when you have demolishers, they are like a short range battle tank with a slightly better kill rate so that is a personal choice in my opinion unless your fighting in an urban setup. HFs shouldn't be used except when in an urban area or facing hordes due to it's short range, in most cases a HB is better because it allows you anti infantry capability while keeping assaulting units away. Overall good but you need to add long range anti tank or capability to get to his tanks and take them out without compromising your army.

I found heavy flamers to be poor in urban settings, since all you have to do to avoid them is climb up a building. They can't shoot upwards so they are effectively useless. That's a great way to deal with baal predators: climb a building and they can't touch you!

Hi Guys

Thanks to all of you for writing and providing feedback - I ended up going in with the last list I had posted. FH nice job on the two wins against the MEQ They are definatly the new black and the lists posted above by you and kato, joey n koban are definatly feesable for play. My model count is around 103 models including 7 vehicles and 2 special characters.

Well, as you have all been waiting I am pleased to say... I have the results

Game VS

Blood Angles:

Librarian with jumpack
20 assault marines (might of been death company) with power weapons, meltaguns, priest with jumpack
librarian dreadnaught with forceweapon, heavy flamer, wings of sanguinius
Furioso Dreadnaught (drop pod)
Dearnaught with two twinlinked autocannons (front armor 13 ??)
3 attack bikes with MM

We rolled and got spearhead, 5 objectives. I won roll to start, then let him set up - something he didnt expect. I then didnt try to sieze the initative.

Turn 1
His whole army comes at me as fast as they can, but due to my turtle deployment in a corner to counter him. He maintains his 2"gap between models in the movement phase then ends up bunching his units up close together as they land following his running in the assault phase landing him in difficult terrain (gotta love craters - sometimes).

My turn one - I keep my meltagun platoon at the front with the autogun platoon behind. My HQ and PCS are in between the two to act as a firewall - literally ! I rush my 3 demolishers forward and spread them out as widely as I can so I can hit him from as many directions as I can whilst denying him as many cover saves as possible. I unload with my HF first who ignore covere and guard terrible BS Then I unload with the demolisher cannons onto him. My autocannons and first platoon open up on him as well. At the end of the first turn I have no losses and he has lost 20 assault marines, priest and librarian.

Turn 2
He continues his run ignoring my distraction units (demolishers) and heading for the platoons. He runs his dreads and shoots his MM bikes one into each Demolisher. One demolisher is immobilised, another is stunned, third one is fine as he misses. In CC His librarian dread kills a whole squad before I can attack back. This turn he remembered his furioso that he forgot last turn to drop in and it kills another squad of guardsmen. In my turn my demolishers turn his autocannon dreadnaught and furioso into pig iron (rear shot on furioso with S10 hahaha) and kill one attack bike. My autocannon platoon kills another attack bike. My command squads and platoon know they are in trouble against the librarian dread so they charge him. He wipes out a PCS for no hard in return.

Turn 3
His last attack bike kills one of my demolishers his auto cannon dread moves to get a side view of my demolisher. Close combat sees another PCS die while krak grenades manage a glancing hit but nthing else. My turn the demolishers kill the last attack bike and autocannon dread. in Close combat he stomps my lord and lots of guardsmen.

This goes on for a while until he kills all my infantry by them failing leadership. My demolishers then turn him into resin lol.

Guard table BA

Orks:
He has Ghazzy, 8 nobz, painboy, banner, eavy armor, cyborg bodies, combi scorchas, 2 PK all in a transport
More sluggaz than I care to think of !!
NOTHING ELSE

We roll and get annihilation with DOW. I win the roll and make him deploy first. I dont try to take initative

Turn 1:
The mob comes looking for blood. They all run as fast as they can and he moves his transpot in a bee line for my lines. I turtle up in a board corner the furthest away from his as I could. His HQ will be in range to charge in turn 2. My turn 1 I move my demolishers to within template range of his HQ from 3 wide angles. I fire my autocannons into the transport and manage to stun it n thats all. Next a demolisher shoots it from the side, penetrates and immobilises it. Not good enough ! Next demolisher penetrates it and wreks a weapon, it has 1 big shoota on it (only weapon on it too). Last one opens up on it and immobilises it again. Good enough - vehicle wreked. He spills out and I pour las bolts into him from platoon 1. Inflicting no wounds

Turn 2:
He surges forward with all hes got. Then his HQ hits platoon 1 with a charge instead of my tanks, bugga. He kills all of platoon one before they can attack back. My lord attacks back and inflicts 2 wounds on nobz. Ghazzy turns him into food. My turn 2, my PCS and autocannons hold steady, I spread out my PCS so that he cannot multi assault into my last platoon. I move my demolishers as fast as I can to his sluggaz. I unload with 3 blast templates killing stacks of them. Then I hit his HQ with 7 flame templates, oh yeah ! 49 wounds onto the unit 3 nobz end up dying including the painboy

Turn 3:
Moving all he can as fast as he can. His HQ scorchas my PCS and platoon 1 to the grave...19 models die. Then he assaults...he consolidates lol. My turn all I got left is 3 tanks, gotta make them count. They move in flame more boyz and demolisher blast more boyz. Lots of boyz die, lots of boyz left.

Turn 4:
His HQ is running toward my tanks as fast as they can. He assaults my tanks with all his boyz. I flamer them as they assault in lol. He attacks with the PK against 11 armor and ghazzy has already declared a special banner of some sort so now they are much closer to me and all the orks are angry, 1 Demolisher dies. I move my 2 survivors towards his table edge as far away from his HQ as I can. He cant move through his own units. I then flame and demolisher more sluggaz. His turn he comes at me and assaults, I flame more boyz lol. He kills another tank.

Turn 5:
He has his HQ minus 2 nobz and a painboy plus some fleeing orks. I have one demolisher. I move away as far away as I can from anything and hit him with a demolisher shell. Take out banner nob and a regular nob. Leaving ghazzy, 2pk nob, 2 regular nob and 7 orks with their nob still alive.

At the end of the game it seems he won - he had in his army a total of 4 kill points. I had 11 in my army lol.

Tyranids:
Hive Tyrant with 2 guards + lots of upgrades
Old one Eye
30 genestealers with 2 broodlords + lots of upgrades (adrenal glands ??)
guy who spawns more nids each turn - dont remember his name

Im pritty tired - I might finish this tomorrow or the following day...

For now though... We rolled, got pitched battle with 3 objectives.

Final game VS Ultramarines
Sicarius + 6 assault terminators with TH/SS
3 x 5 man scout squads with camo cloaks and sniper rifles
3 x dreadnaught with assault cannons

Are you playing this on vassal online? Just wondered because you said "I might finish it tomorrow".

To be honest that Blood Angels army didn't stand a chance as you had a bunch of ranged weaponry and raced those demolisher forward. He had no real long range threat. That seems to be the best way to deal with BA's - outgun them at range. They depend on assault. If you can kill enough of them before they have got to you, you've probably won. If they deep strike or scout though, you are screwed unless you have units to counter them.

Anyway, good job on beating the overpowered Blood Angels! Always very satisfying to simply outgun them and blow them into tiny little pieces before they ever get the chance to get into assault.
I'm really unfamiliar with Orks - haven't played them since about '99. That game sounded close though.

Looking at that Ultramarines list you should be able to win that one too with your list - Demolishers will probably make short work of those assault termies. 3 dreads with assault canons might cause problems for your blob though...

Tell us how it goes!

Hi Guys - writing to let you know how it all ended up !

We were playing in a friends basement on a 4 x 4 foot board. I took notes along the way but no photos and such. I did get the tyranid list wrong though, daniel actually had

Tyranids:
Tervigon; catalyst, crushing claws = 200
Tervigon; catalyst, crushing claws = 200
8 x Hormagaunt with toxin sac and talons = 80
8 x Hormagaunt with toxin sac and talons = 80
Doom of malantai in drop spore with twin deathspitters = 140
Old one eye in drop spore = 300

Total = 1000 points

I love this army, I took home his army list - I think its the scariest thing in 1000 points. Love it to bits,

So lets do this !

Turn 1
He goes first and I have split my forces with all my infantry together on the right hand side of the field and my tanks on the left. He has deployed evenly throughout. He moves his tervigons and hormagaunts towards my troops. My turn I flank him with my tanks and use my troops as the anvil. Classic hammer and anvil tactics. I open up with demolisher cannons, autocannons and some lasguns. The end result is 16 dead hormagaunts and no wounds on his HQ.

Turn 2
He spawns a total of 12 hormagaunts. Doom of malantai shows up but I dont fail my leadership test with platoon one as it has the Lord Commissar. Platoon two makes it as well. Doom of malantai is in big trouble now His nids get into combat with platoon one and I take serious losses. I hit back with my many 3 powerswords and take out 4 gaunts from that alone then the guardsmen strike back taking down 4 more. I make my leadership. My turn sees my men hit their HQs with ordinance, autocannons and lasguns. He takes three wounds by the end of it all.

Turn 3
Old one eye drops in for a visit and cracks open a russ. His HQ spawn 14 more gaunts and they run for my men. HIs doom of malantai stuffs over his hormogaunts and my guard. His doom makes it to strength 10 wounds 10 and drops a blast on my autocannon platoon, lots of dead guard. Combat sees my Lord commissar kill 3 gaunts whilst in return all the guard are killed. He consolidates. My turn my tanks roll back and spread out. I counter attack with my 2 PCS flaming all the gaunts I can. A bunch die and they make leadership test. Doom of malantai sucks more brains - darn him !! Autocannon platoon puts another wound on an enemy HQ. Demolishers focus it down. 1 HQ dead, 1 to go.

Turn 4
He spawns 10 gaunts and moves for combat. Old one eye pops another russ, doom of malanati puts a blast template on my remaining infantry, hormogaunts and their big bro finish off my infanty.

GG - no way I can win.

Vs Ultramarines

Turn 1
I get the first turn and demolishers move to the side to get side shots on the dreadnaughts. Autocannons hold still, melta guns move forward. I Focus fire until two dreads are dead. His turn sees his dread coming for my infantry and his scouts spreading out 2" apart per model in difficult terrain so they get 2 + cover save. His snipers and dreadnaught open up on my platoon killing 11 men. He runs his terminators

Turn 2
My demolishers send 3 blast templates into the terminators and take out 3 of them. My MG platoon hits the dreadnaught and do nothing to it. My autocannons fire into it and do nothing. His turn sees terminators and dreadnaught get into CC with my platoon and the scouts get some rending on the closest demolisher immobilising it. My power swords go to work taking down 1 terminator and the rest of the platoon together takes down none. The dread, special character and terminators together kill everything and consolidate forward.

Turn 3
My demolishers go after this elite killing force and take down 1 more terminator and they scatter badly. Autocannon platoon and 2 PCS land alot of damage onto them that sees the terminator go down. Dreadnaught and character and ready to pounce. I decide to deny him the charge and get stuck into him. By the end of it 4/10 are dead from the PCS. His turn sees his teams of snipers destroy a demolisher. In close combat I loose 4 more and he takes no losses. I fail leadership. He consolidates

Turn 4
My turn sees my demolishers shoot the dread in the rear and 1 of the scout squads. The dread gets imobilised and 1 scout dies. Stupid cover save.. I charge into his special character with 30 guardsmen ! He kills a bunch and I do one wound. His turn he kills 3 guardsmen I get one wound on him.

The rest is all a blurr.

By the end his HQ was dead, the dreadnaught managed to flame the surviving guardsmen then they moved out of his LOS. My demolishers and guard kept pounding at his scout squads. He had only 1 objective covered lol.

Guard win

Summary:
My blood angles opponent made a tactical mistake in not deep striking his squads if he could of. Apart from that he did well, those attack bikes were mean !
My ultramarine foe actually had a good force. He should of taken a commander in terminator armor instead of that 200 point charcter - although he is awesome. He should of deep striked this squad and given his dreads drop pods. The scouts worked out really nicely with the 2 + cover saves. Gotta love them
Daniels tyranids were just COOL !!. 1000 points of paaain. old one eye just smashed up my demolishers like toilet paper, the doom of malantai... urgh... tough tactical choice... him or the 2 dudes who wont stop spawning reinforcements....who to shoot ? I think I made the right choice, cause his doom was also hurting his own units.
My ork opponent, WOW. That deathstar unit with 2 groups of sluggas who get 180 attacks on the charge was mean. Especially in a VP game !

IG
Lord Commissar - good for close combat, basically a sargent with more attacks. Camo cloak ? I rolled terrible :(. Good unit but died waaaay to fast
Platoon 1 - good meat shield, thats about it
Platoon 2 - useful firepower but need more men, lots more men.
3 Demolishers - put the hurt on when I really needed them to. Suffer though against monsterous creatues, can only do 1 wound against them per turn. Very fun to play with and stuffed over my opponents infantry n dreadnaughts good. A really compeditive vehicle, but 3 might be too much. 3 LRBT with HB might work better and get more shots off parked on the table edge behind lots of meat shields.

The weakness of the list was not the demolishers but the infantry - once my opponents got into cc I was done for. I needed ogryns or something harder to counter them

$50 prize winner = TYRANIDS !!!!

I finished equal second.

Tyranids = undefeated.
IG + ORK = 2 losses
BA = 2 losses
Ultramarines = 2 win

The ultramarines panned the orks (special character and terminators dominated the nob squad with ghazzy), we had an uneven number of players so it ended up being the ultramarines vs the orks twice. Though to make it fairer the second game didnt count for scoring purposes for the orks, only for the marines.