Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After reviewing the necron codex i realized there are only a few tactics that seem useful to flayed ones.

What they lost in the new codex:
Initiative 4, 3+ save, terrifying visage(failed ldrship means you only hit them on 6)

What they gained: reanimation protocols(repair against any weapon not removing them from play) +1 attack and reduced cost.

So yes, there are many stronger and more useful units in the codex and very few combos the flayed ones can pull off. What they do however can still determine the winner of a game, as long as you are willing to accept they are probably going to die very easily as they are not fearless and have an average save.

So onto the strategy:

Flayed ones can deep strike or infiltrate or be held in reserve. So here is my view on what they can do for each ability. No matter how you use them they are still delicate, but the main reason to take them is distraction and tarpitting.

The number one issue is that they cannot take anyone from the royal court so no res orb. So I you take them you're going to need either your destroyer lord or overlord with them. I recommend taking a squad of wraiths with a destroyer lord with res orb. This will allow you to save a wraith unit from dieing from instant kills and allowing your destroyer lord to join the flayed ones when it seems necessary.

If infiltrating, you need a big squad, as in 12 minimal as turn 1 you have night fight and this unit will be one of the first kp your opponent gets. Make sure you have a destroyer lord in range since if you don't have him join turn 1 expect the unit gone by the next turn as that 4+ repair is needed to keep more repairing.

If deep striking, again a squad of wraiths is recommended to get your destroyer lord close enough to join them. If using deep strike imotekh is useful, but competitive wise I would recommend scattering as he is not the best choice for an hq. This method allows minimal losses to the squad before getting to assault.

And finally...reserve. You have to take a monolith or they will walk on from the board edge. This would be the hardest of 3 strategies since IMO monoliths usually live long enough to teleport 2 units before diein and the monoliths usually are used to castle a troop needed to be summoned on to an objective and cannot assault the turn summoned from the portal.

If there are any more useful strategies available please post.

Flayed Ones are actually really decent, and a very interesting alternative to the other melee options, but they need to be taken in large numbers to be able to do this - much larger numbers than a necron player (or any player that doesn't play Orks/Nids) may be used to.

A large squad of Flayed Ones is very hard to put down, particularly with their RP, so large squads of them are very, very nice for tying up larger hordes. Combine this with Infiltration or popping through Monoliths, I can see them being very deadly indeed.

Pity about the newer models, though

If they were a troop choice, then they might be worth it.
However, I would rather have deathmarks and lychguard as my elites.
That, and the finecast models suck.

You'd think a straight upgrade from my beloved lost and the damned plague zombies would be auto include but unfortunately this is not 3rd edition and creating a giant melee doesn't erect an infinitely high line of sight blocking cylinder from behind which defilers and traitor basilisks can lob pie plates.

Nowadays everything is either a close combat monster that will be happy to use a turn 1 charge move to gain some extra movement if you infiltrate near them or it's entirely mechanized and flayed ones just can't get into the meaty bits inside until they're mopped up. The absurd value of our night fight activators also means we don't really need to tarpit things until turn 3 or so at which point wraiths are probably all you need. In terms of using deepstrike or outflank to ambush backfield units like objective squatters or heavy weapon infantry you're probably much better off with decent shooting clearing out the problem as soon as you show up like with death marks or veil immortals than a fairly immobile melee unit showing up then needing to wait a turn to actually assault then probably not killing as fast as the shooting would anyway.

And ya, the models. Ech.

I played them in a couple games. One game they were shot to pieces before they could assault after deepstriking with blood scarabs. Another they did Ok in kindof a counter charge situation where units that had been worn down were finished by them. Another game they infiltrated on the wrong board edge and got to do nothing all game.

All in all I just didn't find their niche I suppose.

I was thinking they could be used as great bubble wrap against units that want to assault your vehicles but for now I'm exploring other more interesting parts of the codex.

The ones who under value Flayed Ones are generally in the same camp as the ones who under value similiarly designed units like Mandrakes. The thing that is not as intuitive when considered on paper but comes immediatly apparent when fielded porperly is in a game when 2/3rds are objective based, and almost every army has a glass cannon of some sort that they intend to protect, there is always a golden oppurtunity on the field of battle that if you could just get the right unit in their at the right time you can considerably increase your chances of victory. In additon to objectives, there are a slew of opponets, entrencchd heavy weapon squads, dadda walkers and dreads, and the like, who flayed ones can completely eliminate their firepower just but touching them. Look, point for point, they can dance reasonably with many all stars like TH/SS Termies, but can be an abolute nightmare for a unit of long fangs or a frustrating headache for a pair of rifleman who are statiscally unlikely to muster up enough wounds to end combat very quickly even if the FOs are just tinging off their ankles. There's always great tactical flexibility in a unit like flayed ones, particularly augmented by and HQ like Imo.

And just a quick coment about Imo, Imo lists have won GT's and there are a slew of quick striking based lsits that use him effectively. The fact is that the two lists he fits in most logicaly, Wraith Wing and Scarab Farm, Flayed Ones are an obviouse synergistic choice for, allowing you to deploy an Anvil anwhere on the battle field.

Another thing I think people under estimate is the potential threat range of a large group of Flayed Ones. Even deep striking, which is inherently the least conducive deployment option in terms of spreading out, with an average run roll of 3.5" you can get and oblong formation 12" long from outside base to outside base, effectively rendering you an oval like threat range 36" long and 24 to 36" wide. Thats huge. Then you leave your opponet with the choice to comletely steer clear of a huge peace of landscape, or to shoot at them.

And that is where the true strength of the Flayed Ones come in. Point for point they are umongst the most resilient targets in the game. For about a 13% reduced cost of a Space Marine you get a superior resiliency range to every weapon in every situation in the game except AP 4 weapons when not in cover. The OP mentioned getting them a Res Orb early, which I'm certainly not opposed to in certain situations, but the bottom line is they don't absolutely need it. 13pt T4 4+ RP wounds are ridiuclously cheap in this game, up there with wracks with a kicker of not having to depend on cover and RP working against a much wider range of weaponry then FnP.

The point is, you WANT your opponent shooting at your Flayed Ones, I mean obviuously you would prefer them cutting face in CC, but the alternative is tactically sufficient. Point for point they will eat bullets more efficiently then Wraiths, or Scarabs (against most weaponry, particulary the ones people use to wipe Scarabs off the planet), and fire power dedicated to them is not being dedicated to your already frustating to kill bog standard troops.

As for the new models, yes they are disappointing. But the old ones are great .

ShadarLogoth wrote:The ones who under value Flayed Ones are generally in the same camp as the ones who under value similiarly designed units like Mandrakes. The thing that is not as intuitive when considered on paper but comes immediatly apparent when fielded porperly is in a game when 2/3rds are objective based, and almost every army has a glass cannon of some sort that they intend to protect, there is always a golden oppurtunity on the field of battle that if you could just get the right unit in their at the right time you can considerably increase your chances of victory. In additon to objectives, there are a slew of opponets, entrencchd heavy weapon squads, dadda walkers and dreads, and the like, who flayed ones can completely eliminate their firepower just but touching them. Look, point for point, they can dance reasonably with many all stars like TH/SS Termies, but can be an abolute nightmare for a unit of long fangs or a frustrating headache for a pair of rifleman who are statiscally unlikely to muster up enough wounds to end combat very quickly even if the FOs are just tinging off their ankles. There's always great tactical flexibility in a unit like flayed ones, particularly augmented by and HQ like Imo.

And just a quick coment about Imo, Imo lists have won GT's and there are a slew of quick striking based lsits that use him effectively. The fact is that the two lists he fits in most logicaly, Wraith Wing and Scarab Farm, Flayed Ones are an obviouse synergistic choice for, allowing you to deploy an Anvil anwhere on the battle field.

Another thing I think people under estimate is the potential threat range of a large group of Flayed Ones. Even deep striking, which is inherently the least conducive deployment option in terms of spreading out, with an average run roll of 3.5" you can get and oblong formation 12" long from outside base to outside base, effectively rendering you an oval like threat range 36" long and 24 to 36" wide. Thats huge. Then you leave your opponet with the choice to comletely steer clear of a huge peace of landscape, or to shoot at them.

And that is where the true strength of the Flayed Ones come in. Point for point they are umongst the most resilient targets in the game. For about a 13% reduced cost of a Space Marine you get a superior resiliency range to every weapon in every situation in the game except AP 4 weapons when not in cover. The OP mentioned getting them a Res Orb early, which I'm certainly not opposed to in certain situations, but the bottom line is they don't absolutely need it. 13pt T4 4+ RP wounds are ridiuclously cheap in this game, up there with wracks with a kicker of not having to depend on cover and RP working against a much wider range of weaponry then FnP.

The point is, you WANT your opponent shooting at your Flayed Ones, I mean obviuously you would prefer them cutting face in CC, but the alternative is tactically sufficient. Point for point they will eat bullets more efficiently then Wraiths, or Scarabs (against most weaponry, particulary the ones people use to wipe Scarabs off the planet), and fire power dedicated to them is not being dedicated to your already frustating to kill bog standard troops.

As for the new models, yes they are disappointing. But the old ones are great .

You sir, have just talked me into getting Flayed Ones

Lots of arguments made about the Flayed Ones are valid and 100% true:

1. They get shot to pieces by ranged.
2. They have no ranged themselves.
3. They aren't terribly good in CC vs anything even vaguely good in CC.
4. They don't belong in the elite slot and should be troops.
5. The models are ugly.
6. The models are ugly (yes, I put this twice)
7. For nearly the same points I can buy Wraiths or Scarabs, which are better.
8. You can't put Crypteks with them.
9. Building a big squad is expensive as they come in boxes of 5 (with bad models).
10. I can go on, but won't.

Having played Flayed Ones, I can tell you I kind of like them. It's for a kind of obtuse reason. The Orks love their really big Boyz squadz, and they love them for a reason. You take a huge squad of dudes and bury a Nob with a power klaw in the middle and bam, you have a threat. It also really looks like a threat. A huge squad of dudes with ...well, let's face it, its a huge squad of guys and that scares some people.

Several things I have learned about Flayed Ones and this may help frame this discussion (if you can get over the ugly models).

1. Flayed Ones take up an elite slot. So yes, you can have Flayed Ones AND Wraiths.
2. If you are considering taking Flayed Ones, you MUST take them in large numbers. Squads of 20 or go home.
3. Flayed Ones come in big squads. Sure they are crappy, but you can take a load of them in one squad - which is something the Necrons have in short supply.
4. Flayed Ones play really well with Overlords, with a Rez Orb. In this scenario the Overlord takes the place of the Nob with a power klaw.
5. Flayed Ones have infiltrate (which can be pretty awesome tactically).
6. These guys play extremely well with Nemesor Zahndrekh. Giving them Furious Charge, Counter-Attack, etc. Is fairly amazing.

Essentially you must look at Flayed Ones as the Necron codex's Boyz squad, or our DE Beastmaster unit. Pretend cost and dumb models are not an issue.

Where this unit shines is when you take 2-3 units of 20 of these guys. The key to Flayed Ones is tactical and not in model power, it is in model staturation. This is odd because it doesn't play well with the Necron "elite army" paradigm. You can deploy them in two ways -- HQ + Flayed Ones on foot in cover for counter-assault or ambush. Or Flayed Ones without HQ for Infiltrate. I think the latter is where these units really shine. Say the models are in cover, you now have 40-60 dudes in 3 squads, sitting 12" or 18" away from your potent targets, essentially waiting in ambush. So what this forces your opponent to do is:

1. Do I advance forward and take my chances and let the ambush happen and hope to wipe them out?
2. Do I shoot at units with Rez Protocols, potentially in cover, and try to whittle the squad down or destroy it outright?
3. Do some really janky movement where I try to avoid the ambush, and potentially throw off my gameplan and give my opponent a further tactical advantage?

Let's examine each choice:

Option #1

Probably the best decision overall if you are running a gnarly CC-heavy army.

Having played these guys with an Overlord and a rez orb, they can hang pretty well with a huge squad of 20 against most units, especially with an Overlord attached. Against "non strong" CC units, Flayed Ones on a charge (and even not) are fairly effective and can wipe squads (80 attacks hurts bad). Against heavy CC baddies, they do damage and at the very least it serves as a tarpit so that those same nasty CC units don't keep advancing up the field toward say...your gunline. As a Necron player I am going to Infiltrate my guys tactically in such a way that I align myself against either your heavy CC baddies or your weak units. So either you move to engage the Flayed Ones with your power hitters and I tie you up for a bit, or I get at the meat of your units.

Option #2

Probably the best decision overall if you are running a gunline or heavy firepower army.

You are going to need to concentrate a ton firepower on these guys to take them down in most scenarios. Plus, with 4+ rez protocols, a lot of them will likely stand back up. Plus with 2 or 3 of these squads on the board, even if you blow 1 away in a turn, the other 2 are going to advance on your likely fragile units and start wrecking havoc. Your best bet may be to ignore them, or hope to get lucky and really shoot down a ton of dudes. Either way, as a Necron player I am happy either way. If you are shooting at them, you are not shooting at the rest of my sweet units. If you aren't, then my guys are breaking cover and making a mad dash for your lines and trying to attack your squishy squads.

Option #3

The whole: "I drive around them.", option. You can, sure. But hopefully I am tactically minded enough to place them in such a way that they are between you and an objective or a board quarter. I am going to make it as tough as possible to "drive around" my guys easily without sacrificing something on the board. Either way, my units are changing the way you move your army, which disrupts the game plan and can kind of throw some players into a bit of a bind.

So these were just 3 quick ways that you can deploy and play Flayed Ones. This unit can be employed well, but it needs to be employed tactically and an army built around it.

Some "do not dos" with Flayed Ones:

1. Don't deepstrike in front of a unit (damn you blood scarabs!!). You will likely be shot apart.
2. Do not take small squads. See #1. You will be shot apart.
3. Do no deepstrike these guys period. It's just rarely a good decision.
4. If you are not infiltrating, stick an HQ with these guys for the Rez Orb (you get a lot more out of them)

One nasty trick I did pull one time was to hold a squad of Flayed Ones in reserve with Varguard Obyron. I put Nemesor Zahndrekh with another squad of Flayed Ones. This trick allows me a lot of tactical options. I would lead with the Zahndrekh squad and if I ever got caught out in the open and knew I was going to be exposed, I could deepstrike Obyron's squad next to him to give them more of a signature and soak up some more fire. Give my opponent lots of targets to shoot at. Even if he killed one, I would be able to charge with another unit. You can even go "stupid expensive" with your HQs and run Imotekh, Zahndrekh, and Obyron and then do the blood scarab deepstrike AND on the same turn accurate deepstrike Obyron's squad.

Last I checked 40 models showing up exactly where you want them on the board, makes quite a show. Even if it is not terribly practical.

EDIT: Thanks Actinium for reminder about DS and HQs. Edited the post to change that information and reflect you can either have HQ + Flayed Ones on foot, or infiltrate 20 without HQ.

You can't infiltrate with an overlord attached.

My ork army runs a full 45 kommandos, the ability to essentially cut the enemy's deployment zone in half and force them to either tar pit in and lose their chance of stopping my transports or running headfirst toward by transports is phenomenal. Flayed ones on the other hand can't hurt vehicles and they don't do much against dedicated assault squads. They can't hide a powerklaw, an olord can be picked out in close combat and as has been mentioned running them across field or deep striking them are kinda janky deployment methods for regular movement speed infantry. I don't like comparing them to wraiths because they really do just compliment each other and there's no reason you can't take both but i do like comparing them to regular old warriors, in which case I'd pretty much always take 20 scoring shooting warriors over 20 flayed ones. If you have so many troops slots filled that you can't take more warriors you probably don't need any more anti infantry in the form of flayed ones packs in your list.

Actinium wrote:You can't infiltrate with an overlord attached.

My ork army runs a full 45 kommandos, the ability to essentially cut the enemy's deployment zone in half and force them to either tar pit in and lose their chance of stopping my transports or running headfirst toward by transports is phenomenal. Flayed ones on the other hand can't hurt vehicles and they don't do much against dedicated assault squads. They can't hide a powerklaw, an olord can be picked out in close combat and as has been mentioned running them across field or deep striking them are kinda janky deployment methods for regular movement speed infantry. I don't like comparing them to wraiths because they really do just compliment each other and there's no reason you can't take both but i do like comparing them to regular old warriors, in which case I'd pretty much always take 20 scoring shooting warriors over 20 flayed ones. If you have so many troops slots filled that you can't take more warriors you probably don't need any more anti infantry in the form of flayed ones packs in your list.

4 true about the Infiltrate - totally spaced on that. I've made corrections on the original post.

Regardless, this strat has worked for me in the games I have proxied these guys, despite this unit's lack of ability to deal with "all comer" threats (like vehicles) they consistently did something good for me in the game -- even if they got all shot up. The Necrons have other pieces of their army that can do that kind of lifting for you. Flayed Ones are a viable, but admittedly sub optimal choice for the Necron general. What it does is allow you to put a "wall of guys" on the table for your opponent to shoot at.

ShadarLogoth said it best that you want your opponent shooting at your Flayed Ones, and not at the rest of your army. It is a different army option for Necron players that honestly isn't 100% viable due to the sheer cost of fielding a unit of even 20 Flayed Ones, but definitely isn't invalid. Anytime I can control and limit my opponent's tactical field position and force him to attack squads that I want him to attack, that is a positive for me in games. What it also does is throw a new option down on the table that makes my opponent think and make decisions. I've found the best way to win 40k games is to simply throw lots of decisions at your opponent. You'd be surprised how many times that they make a bad one and you can exploit it.

I pretty sure that if I saw an opponent field 2-3 mounds of 20 Flayed Ones, I'd forfeit, pack up, go home and make sure I wasn't followed, because I was obviously vs. a deranged madman. (thats $180 for ONE squad of 20!)

hATERS GONNA HATE TROLOLOL. Just came back from Black Diamond Games tournament, AND GOT FIRST PLACE BECAUSE OF THEM! Ran 16 of em converted using warrior bodies and tyranid hormagaunt talons..

Game 1

They allowed me to tie the top Necron player from bao becasue I took out 9 scarabs in 2 turns, wiped a warrior squad with some help and ended up tieing at the end with a bonus Victory Condition. TIE w/ VC

Game 2

They were ignored by the CSM player after a defiler and contested several objectives baiting my opponent while wraiths ate them. Win w/ both VC

Game 3

Assaulted a Black Templar vindicator, immobilised it and blew it up in 2 rounds, then locked his dreadnought in combat for 4 rounds due to high leadership and repair protocols. They tarpitted the dread long enough to warscythe him to death when destroyer lord and whip wraith joined in. Flayed ones arent for everyone, obviously but average 30-40 atacks in retaliatiopn to geting charged in a 16 man squad and you have a threat. Win w/ both VC

Flayed ones and Nessie have worked well for me.
Held back in reserve with the intention of being counter phased placed in a way to screw with whatever they opponent just brought to the field. I run a small squad 5-10 and thus far they have worked wonderfully as a shield agaisnt 3 obliterators shootint the back of my triarch stalker, were able to stop an assault by commandoes even after they scattered, and the third time they mishapped and the opponents got to place them in the far corner all alone and no other enemy squad tried to get anywhere near them. I like to think that he was intimidated by the flayeones.

Counter charge is a great tactic to give them after they deepstrike in. And I know its been said once or twice in this thread but they are hella cheap for a shield squad and if for some reason the star align and your sacrifies where accepted they might be offensivly useful.

I think they are just right as elites instead of troops, no way you could have a strong spine in your army if they served as the meat and potatoes. And not getting a Royal Court, well I guess they can be all that useful.

Some causlties have to happen so why not keep on the cheap guys that dont eat armor.

FKE mentioned this on his recent BR and I think it's a great point to consider in regards to Flayed Ones:

They (Lychguard) also have an advantage over Wraiths/Spyders in that they gain that little extra bit of mobility from reanimation protocols. That extra 2" + base width at the end of a phase can be decisive.

Careful placement of your RPed FOs (as well as careful selection of your casualties) can help bridge some of the mobility gap that concerns many with their usage.