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Hello, This is a 2k list built partially around He'stan's tactics rule, but for the most part, Vulkan is used because he is actually a diehard character in my mind. I believe he is worth far more points than he is priced at, making him a bargain without even considering his tactics.

With this in mind, the list does not attempt to capitalise 100% on the Vulkan tactic. It does, in my opinion have a two-staged approach to it. On one side, you have the assault terminator/meltagun army detachment which will be an almost assaulting arm of the army, whereas I also have a detachment of ranged fire support in the form of predators and LC tac squads.

Finally, this list is not attempting to be a great competitive list, but I'd like to be able to win with it. [truly the only real radical change from my old list is the move to 3 from 4 squads of tactical marines, the librarian and the new terminator squad.]

Without further adieu, My 2k list.
HQ
Vulkan He'Stan
- 190 pts
- rides with Terminators in LR

Librarian
- 100
- Null zone
- GOI


Troops
10x tactical marines.
- meltagun
- Lascannon
- 185 points

10x tactical marines.
- meltagun
- Lascannon
- 185 points

10x tactical marines.
- meltagun
- Lascannon
- 185 points

3x Rhino's

- 105 points

Elites
5x Assault terminators
- 200 points

5x Sternguard Veterans
- 5x meltaguns
150 points
Dedicated Redeemer
- Multi-melta
- 250 points

N: I have taken two squads to get two sergeants, so I can wound allocate onto him if need be.

Heavy support
3x Predators
3x LC sponsons
- 360 pts.

So, the list splits in two:

3x rhino's with Sergeant, Meltagun and 3 bolters
1x assault terminators with Vulkan in the LR

and

3x tac combat squads with 4x boltguns and LC.
3x predators
1x assault terminator

the latter forms up in the centre or off to the side of the map, but will be fairly static

the assault terminators will be block cover for the predators as well as reacting to threats like deep-striking trygons [in my gaming group, this is a favourite tactic of a friend.]

The former is able to fulfil a support role for the half-gunline thing I've got going, or they can be more aggressive depending on the opponent. I think this makes for a decent level of flexibility in the army; it allows me to take on more opponents.

Final adendum, if you can give me a reason better than 'because its good' for taking GOI, I will do it. but I'm not going to do it just because it works for you - the same goes for Autocannon dreadnoughts. I hate them.

I still just don't see why your spending 190 points to take Vulkan. So you can twin link 3 melta guns, a mm, and master craft 10 TH, half of which are babysitting your preds, and for a 2+ 3++ with master crafter relic blade?

Other than that the list isn't bad. Still needs some work imo. I'm not big on your babysitting squad idea but the list does have a fair amount of long range shooting.

I'd reevaluate what exactly you believe Vulkan is bringing to the list as it currently is. One more thing you need to think about: How are you going to deal with a guard, tyranid, or ork horde?

I'm actually very able to take on a tyranid army, as a matter of fact.

This army usually takes on a Tyranid list with...

1 Hive tyrant who can speed up reserves and allow an infantry unit to come in from the board sides.
2 tervigons - one's a troop to take advantage of HT's outflank rule.
2 Venothorpes and 6 hive guard
3 trygons and the rest are gaunts.

This army has had no difficulty dealing with it, The reason I've a unit to sit back and corttle the Terminators is because those predators are incredibly vulnerable. If I'm playing an assaulting army, they'll stay back.

of course, they'd deep strike if I'm fighting a gunline. I'd attempt to rush my opponent as quickly as possible in that situation.

Vulkan adds something to the terminator squad that just makes it formidable. instead of being all I1 and therefore able to be kicked in the shins by termagants, I suddenly have another 3 2+3++ wounds that fight at up to 4 attacks at WS6 and S6. Not to mention his heavy flamer, Vulkan is simply a beast in my opinion. He is ridiculously undercosted for what he is capable of.

Finally, you're only looking at the special rule for him. I'm specifically not capitalising on it. There'd be next to no long range and the way I play that's important.

The only thing I might be willing to consider is H/F speeders in that situation, but I happen to believe they're paper-thin and aren't efficient in their duties.

You can't wound allocate to the Sergeants in the TH/SS squads.

They have the same stat line and wargear as the rest of the squad. A quick review of wound allocation will show you they either need different stats (i.e. an extra wound) or different war gear (i.e. 2x LC while everyone else has TH/SS).

Over all I like the list.

Scipio Africanus wrote:I'm actually very able to take on a tyranid army, as a matter of fact.

This army usually takes on a Tyranid list with...

1 Hive tyrant who can speed up reserves and allow an infantry unit to come in from the board sides.
2 tervigons - one's a troop to take advantage of HT's outflank rule.
2 Venothorpes and 6 hive guard
3 trygons and the rest are gaunts.

I'm not talking about MC spam. I'm talking about a horde.

Scipio Africanus wrote:
Finally, you're only looking at the special rule for him. I'm specifically not capitalising on it. There'd be next to no long range and the way I play that's important.

I'm not really sure what your trying to say here? Your preds and las combat squads give a nice amount of long range shooting already. What I am looking at 840 points tied up in a special character, 10 assault terminators, and a landraider.

Finally! another Salamanders player who takes long ranged weapons over melta spam! (My army has a few preds for long ranged support). I'm not going to stamp on your opinion of taking long ranged weapons over melta spam, IMO its a good choice to have a bit of range.

As for your baby sitting termie squad, i think 200 points for the sake of possibly seeing combat is over kill. IMHO, i think 5 sternguard with 5 combi meltas (150 points) with a GOI librarian would be just as good. You have hell fire rounds (2+ to wound) for MC, and Melta for DS / Outflank vehicles and you can shoot in the venerable turn after GOI.

It might be worth swapping 1 tactical squad's LC to a MM. That way, you can sit on an objectie in a melta bunker. (MM, MG, PF, Rhino)

OverwatchCNC wrote:You can't wound allocate to the Sergeants in the TH/SS squads.

They have the same stat line and wargear as the rest of the squad. A quick review of wound allocation will show you they either need different stats (i.e. an extra wound) or different war gear (i.e. 2x LC while everyone else has TH/SS).

Over all I like the list.

I'd argue that point, given that the rulebook says different for gaming purposes. Since in the options section of the codex, the sergeant is made a specific note on the assault terminator option, I would say he is different enough for gaming terms.
I

Barksdale wrote:

Scipio Africanus wrote:I'm actually very able to take on a tyranid army, as a matter of fact.

This army usually takes on a Tyranid list with...

1 Hive tyrant who can speed up reserves and allow an infantry unit to come in from the board sides.
2 tervigons - one's a troop to take advantage of HT's outflank rule.
2 Venothorpes and 6 hive guard
3 trygons and the rest are gaunts.

I'm not talking about MC spam. I'm talking about a horde.

I'm sorry, I haven't heard of a full horde. I've dealt with about 60 termagants in a turn before.

I can see where you're coming from, but your point becomes invalid as soon as you look at the number of armies actually running an infantry horde: It's expensive, its not strong [S value wise.] so has no strength against tanks and since the rest of the world plays a mech army, it gets left behind.

I fully respect the argument you're putting forward and it does make sense, I just don't see it as necessarily correct. As much as I hate to say it, I accept that the game is mostly tank-based. even Tyranids tend to take a lot of monsters.

Of course, you're right that I'd be boned against an ork horde.

Barksdale wrote:

Scipio Africanus wrote:
Finally, you're only looking at the special rule for him. I'm specifically not capitalising on it. There'd be next to no long range and the way I play that's important.

I'm not really sure what your trying to say here? Your preds and las combat squads give a nice amount of long range shooting already. What I am looking at 840 points tied up in a special character, 10 assault terminators, and a landraider.

I was assuming you were wanting me to remove the LC predators or the tac squads with them.

The original list had an extra tac squad and all razorbacks. one had a LC. this was replaced with 5 assault terminators.

I'm trying to play it slightly differently on the basis that my list isn't changing and I'm becoming bored of it. If you've a better suggestion than 5 assault terminators, tell me.

Zambro wrote:Finally! another Salamanders player who takes long ranged weapons over melta spam! (My army has a few preds for long ranged support). I'm not going to stamp on your opinion of taking long ranged weapons over melta spam, IMO its a good choice to have a bit of range.

As for your baby sitting termie squad, i think 200 points for the sake of possibly seeing combat is over kill. IMHO, i think 5 sternguard with 5 combi meltas (150 points) with a GOI librarian would be just as good. You have hell fire rounds (2+ to wound) for MC, and Melta for DS / Outflank vehicles and you can shoot in the venerable turn after GOI.

It might be worth swapping 1 tactical squad's LC to a MM. That way, you can sit on an objectie in a melta bunker. (MM, MG, PF, Rhino)

I can respect that. still hate the GOI rule. Can I ask what you suggest to use the extra 50 points on?

You're correct, the book says different for gaming purposes. The sarge has no discernible difference from the rest of his squad, for gaming purposes, unless you give him wargear that is different than the rest of his squad. For gaming purposes he is the same. Same Stat Line, same Wargear, same everything. He is only different in the codex, and the only difference is that he has a title. So for codex purposes he is not the same, but for gaming purposes he is.

I would change the 2nd Assault termis to standard termies with a Cyclone missle launcher. That was you can throw some fire downrange before or after dealing with anything that drops in your back feild. Just drop the troop lascannons to missle launchers. Almost as good plus you get blast markers to drop on squads. The Preds should be doing your anti tanks/anti-MC shooting. Ohh and give the Libby Might of anchents and machine curse. Since those will help with backfeild attackers.

@Scipio Africanus. 50 points is awkward to deal with... You got more or less everything each squad needs. No point putting weapons on Transports, they will be moving / pop smoke.

2 things i'd go for. Combi-melta/-flamer for Tact seargents, or a MM Attack Bike. That would be about it.

If you are bringing LC's to shoot at big bugs, why not use MM's for that? That way you get them TL'd. S8 still makes big bugs cringe.

If you can I would try proxying a TFC, you will be amazed at how helpful that thing is against bugs. Slowing down a horde and making them roll DT's is nuts.

nice list though, looks like fun

MayorDaley wrote:If you are bringing LC's to shoot at big bugs, why not use MM's for that? That way you get them TL'd. S8 still makes big bugs cringe.

If you can I would try proxying a TFC, you will be amazed at how helpful that thing is against bugs. Slowing down a horde and making them roll DT's is nuts.

nice list though, looks like fun

Not to be rude... well, to be rude. The first part is the quite possibly the worst advice I have ever recieved.

If you look at what you're saying, it requires me to be within 24" of a Trygon. Any sane person knows that's not a good idea unless you're toting a big hammer and a guy with a really strong spear.

The second is good advice. I would buy a TFC - I'd buy it if it were a FW model - But I'm not in the business of making metal models [not that I can't, I'm just too lazy.] so, until they make me happy and release a resin one, I can't see that happening.

Why not drop the libby and the babysitters for two squads of sternguard with two las and three combis. Another option is to take a 10 man with two las, 5 combis, and a rhino. Combat squad and send a few of the combi guys to support the other column.

Adds some more long range ap2, 5 or 6 combis, while still babysitting your preds. You'd just need to be sure you took enough to take out the trygons when the crawl out of the ground. Melta's would be twinlinked, but plasmas you could double tap. Otherwise you always have the special issue ammo...

Oops a little late to the sternguard party... I see you've already done something like this..