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Since I can't be arsed to cut up my old metal Sternguard to make Combi-Meltas, I had to revise my 1500 list a bit.

HQ:

Librarian - Bolt Pistol, Force Weapon, Psychic Hood, Power Armour, Smite, Might of the Ancients - 100pts

Troops:

Scout Squad - 10 Strong, Sniper Rifles(8), Missile Launcher(1), Sgt. Telion - 200pts

Tactical Squad '1' - 10 Strong, Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w/ Melta Bombs, Razorback w/ TL Lascannon - 255

Tactical Squad '2' - 10 Strong, Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w/ Melta Bombs and Power Fist, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon - 280

Elite:

Sternguard Veterans - 9 Strong, Boltgunsx9, Sgt w/ Powerfist + Melta Bombs, Rhino - 290

Heavy Support:

Vindicator - Siege Shield, Demolisher Cannon, Stormbolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launcher - 125

Vindicator - Siege Shield, Demolisher Cannon, Stormbolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launcher - 125

Vindicator - Siege Shield, Demolisher Cannon, Stormbolter, Searchlight, Smoke Launcher - 125

Total: 1500pts

The Librarian will accompany the Sternguard, using Smite when they get in rapid fire range. Might of the Ancients will be used when they get close to a vehicle, and instead of shooting it would be better to use the Sergeants Melta Bomb + Might of the Ancients.

The Razorbacks are not Las/Plas backs because of the fact I don't have las/plas turrets. So, one of them is a Lascannon (since I only have one lascannon turret >.&gt and the other is an Assault Cannon, to assist with anti infantry + light vehicle duties.

The Razorbacks will either operate independently if I'm facing something where Combat Squads would be inadvisable, or will be used to get my Sergeants + melta guns up as fast as possible to punch holes in tanks.

3 Vindicators is a scary thing to face in any situation. With a BS of 4 and a S10/AP2 Large Blast weapon, and a FA of 13, they can turn almost anything they face into paste, whether it's Tank, Infantry, or whatever else may stray into their gunsights.

The Scouts will be used to either camp an objective or be deployed in advanced cover to enjoy that beautiful +1 to Cover save that Telion grants. Telion is a mind fether, with his ability to allocate the wounds he inflicts. If there's nothing tasty to snipe, he can use his BS of 6 to direct that Missile Launcher.

Thoughts?

OK, what I'd say is because you have you combat squad your marines find 30 pints from that powerfist and a 5 point upgrade and put lascannons on them, makes them OK, to awesome.. if you want you could put plasma cannons on instead but that is just your preference.

Secondly, I'd see if you shouldn't take force dome instead of might of the ancients to give all of your sternguard a 5++ and so does your libby whereas before he'd die quite quickly because of no invulnerable. Becuase you have little anti tank in that squad I would now say drop the PF and take 5 combi-meltas to give yourself anti tak form closer range.

Apart form that I think it's a pretty good list.

- madman12367

Well, if you need 30pts there's 3 storm bolters on your vindicators that you can safely remove. Edit: you meant the stock storm bolters, never mind then. Why do people type those out?

I would definitely take a more useful power than smite, such as force dome as suggested by madman. I would probably either take null zone and keep the sternguard in a rhino, or take gate of infinity for mobility and turn the rhino into another razorback for more firepower. I would probably still take null zone, but might isn't bad.

Not sold on PF in tacsquad 2. I guess you're planning to combatsquad since they're in a razor and fists are less durable in 5man squads. Can still be useful but yeah, I'd say drop it if you need points.

The Fist is a tenative thing until I figure out where to stick the points. Couldn't really think of anywhere else to stick 25pts, since I don't have the models to field 5 combi-meltas.

I'm thinking of switching the Smite to Force Dome. The Might of the Ancients is to good to pass up if I run into tanks (or stuck in with something with high Toughness.)

I typed it out to help me remember that I have them, heh.

Libby

Smite is plain bad, you will cause 1 wound on average and cover save will negate it. Avenger is much better. It will kill on average 2-3 guys right away.

Might of the Ancient is super bad. Your librarian has no invul save, the only time he needs to use Might of the Ancient is against some other big boys or a tank. In both case, he will be clobbered.

You have approximately enough points in fists and meltabomb to get a HF/MM speeder. Your call but you will soon find that a 5-man tactical squad will be ripped apart before the fist swing. Nobody will be leaving their vehicle parked for your fist/meltabomb anyway.

Telion build is very very casual, you can try it out and see how you like it but a Dreadnought is a way better killing machine.

leohart wrote:Libby

Smite is plain bad, you will cause 1 wound on average and cover save will negate it. Avenger is much better. It will kill on average 2-3 guys right away.

Might of the Ancient is super bad. Your librarian has no invul save, the only time he needs to use Might of the Ancient is against some other big boys or a tank. In both case, he will be clobbered.

You have approximately enough points in fists and meltabomb to get a HF/MM speeder. Your call but you will soon find that a 5-man tactical squad will be ripped apart before the fist swing. Nobody will be leaving their vehicle parked for your fist/meltabomb anyway.

Telion build is very very casual, you can try it out and see how you like it but a Dreadnought is a way better killing machine.

The problem with taking one speeder is the fact that it's vulnerable to bolter fire; one speeder is going to get blown to bits in an instant. If you are going to bring speeders, you need to bring 2 - 3, because then there is a low chance it's going to turn into flaming wreckage in the first turn.

I've been having good luck with my tactical marines surviving close combat to get the strikes back. Sure, Space Marines aren't the best in close combat, and ideally they won't be charging anything that's dedicated in assault...

But, I agree that I should drop the fist in the tactical squad. really, if I've given him melta bombs, the times that Power Fist will come through is slim.

MM/HF speeder requires placement. If both a 5-man combat squad and a speeder is outside in the same spot, both of them have the same chance of surviving bolters. (you need a 3 immobilize/weapon destroy result before it goes down since it is not open-topped).

But, MM and HF dish out so much more damage to both infantry and vehicle. For that 70 pts, I can't really think of something with such versatility and effectiveness.

That's true... problem is cash, at the moment, though.

I'll consider it. Maybe when I have the cash, drop the scouts and the powerfist on the tacs. and pick up 3 Land Speeders.

I'd give your sternguard 2 meltas and/or combi-weapons. If you take out telion you can buy everybody a combi-melta. 10 melta shots is way better than 2 stalker bolter shots per turn.

Telion is nice becuase he only cost 20 points (when you factor in the cost of cammo cloaks for a squad of 10) so IMO he is a manditory upgrade.

Here is the problem with you list as I see it. You have a close distance build but none of the things that will give you survivability close up. Also other than your pie plates and potentialy 10 special ammo shots you are not very deadly in your 24" threat bubble. Also there is zero chance you will ever get to drop more than 1 of those pie plates a turn I garantee you that the vidicators will take every s8+ shot your opponent has on the board every turn until they are not a threat. and 5 sturngaurd can but some pain out there but will likely get smushed as soon as they get out of their ride.

If you want to be a 24" army (which is ok but IMO not the best idea with Vannila marines as BA and GK do it so much better) You need either a deathstar type unit to hold the middle of the field (th/sstermis with a liby or chaplin buff that probably needs a land raider) and way more long range fire support to protect your vindis from things that can hurt them when they get close like typhoon speeders.

godzilla757 wrote:I'd give your sternguard 2 meltas and/or combi-weapons. If you take out telion you can buy everybody a combi-melta. 10 melta shots is way better than 2 stalker bolter shots per turn.

The problem is, I don't have 10 combi-meltas. >.>

Pony_law wrote:Telion is nice becuase he only cost 20 points (when you factor in the cost of cammo cloaks for a squad of 10) so IMO he is a manditory upgrade.

Here is the problem with you list as I see it. You have a close distance build but none of the things that will give you survivability close up. Also other than your pie plates and potentialy 10 special ammo shots you are not very deadly in your 24" threat bubble. Also there is zero chance you will ever get to drop more than 1 of those pie plates a turn I garantee you that the vidicators will take every s8+ shot your opponent has on the board every turn until they are not a threat. and 5 sturngaurd can but some pain out there but will likely get smushed as soon as they get out of their ride.

If you want to be a 24" army (which is ok but IMO not the best idea with Vannila marines as BA and GK do it so much better) You need either a deathstar type unit to hold the middle of the field (th/sstermis with a liby or chaplin buff that probably needs a land raider) and way more long range fire support to protect your vindis from things that can hurt them when they get close like typhoon speeders.

I agree with the bit about Telion. However, at 1500pts, I find TH/SS terminators a tad... expensive for this point range. Sternguard get 10 men (well, 9, since the Librarian is going with them) and a transport for almost half the point cost of the Terminators, and most of the killing power. I've had special ammo bring down TMCs, they can pop things out of cover.

I agree that, if I had brought one (or even two) vindicators, it'd be bad. But 3 Vindicators is a lot of S8 to bring to bear to neutralize it. Considering I have tank hunter razorbacks...


The TH/SS definitely are in my 2000 list. I have a hard time justifying TH/SS that can easily be stuck in a tar pit at 1500... :(