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Hi all,

Before I get started I just want to gush a little bit about how amazing the CCBarge is. Not only is the kit one of the best deals GW offers but the unit itself is amazing. I way underestimated them when I first read the codex. That being said. I have myself a small tactical question. Are Mindshackle Scarabs on the lord riding the CCbarge worth it?

I'm my current 1850 list I have two lords with warscyths riding barges. I also have 3 wraiths with 3 whip coils and 8 scarabs. Now, I can drop two scarabs, or a scarab base and a whip coil and that would leave me enough points to upgrade the lords to carry MSS (btw I have like 8 points left over in this list already). The question is, is it worth it?

I tend not to buy items that I hope to never use. If all goes well, the Lords should never have to put their feet on the table. I cannot think of too many situtations where I wanna move 12", sweep, then assault. The lord is all on his lonesome and that can spell doom for him. Except against Monsterous Creatures or things like, oh say, a Swarmlord (and no Tyrant Guard) the MSS could be useful and the solo combatant lord could be effective. Is it really that likely though? Do I want to buy war gear that I really don't expect to use? Or, am I wrong and I should buy the wargear because my opponents are going to always try and take the CCbarges down and eventually the Lord will probably wind up on the ground and then the MSS should increase his surviviabiliy. The lord already has no other wargear aside from the scythe, no invul or 2+.

Any suggestions on wether or no MSS are worth it? Or if you think other wargear might be important I'd like to hear your opinion. Thanks!

No. In fact, I wouldn't put any upgrades on the CCB other than the warscythe. The overlord will be on the CCB most of time, and therefore wouldn't be able to charge the enemy. Nor would the enemy be able to damage the lord directly, which eliminates the invul and 2+ save.

For a catacomb riding overlord I'd probably keep him with just a scythe or at least take sempiternal weave over mind shackles. Once his surfboard if aced you're probably sitting in full view a couple feet away from a ton of infantry as you just got done speeding towards/over tanks or transports, so most de-barged overlords I've seen get got by a sudden double tap of small arms fire with the occasional special weapon, getting assaulted by some elite close combat monster is significantly less likely.

The Overlord primarily wants to be Sweep Attacking, so Warscythe is the only compulsory upgrade. That said, he can have a lot of value outside of the CCB as well.

My Overlords have done well tarpitting/whittling down Devastators, Lootaz, Long Fangs, and similar units --- all targets worth disembarking for IMO --- and for those kind of engagements a Weave is going to go a long way. T5 and a 2+ save make Overlords an absolute brick in a lot of CCs. Their small base means they can get surrounded easily and block off other enemy units from joining the combat.

They've also been useful bailing my Wraiths out of combat. Besides Sweeping over walkers holding my Wraiths in CC (love that trick), they can be great for diverting attacks off the Wraiths. To really shine in this role, though, they need Mindshackle Scarabs. The ability to stop an IC, a power fist, an MC, or any other particularly nasty combatant from attacking your models more than half the time is powerful all by itself...the fact that they then attack their own unit is hilarious. Even with Warscythe/Weave/MSS, you're not going to be soloing dedicated CC units left and right, but 30 points in upgrades is a small price to decisively tip a lot of combats in your favor.

In short, I would say any of the following configurations are great: Warscythe, Warscythe/Weave, or Warscythe/Weave/MSS. It really depends on how you want them to support the rest of your army. My initial impression was that CCBs are most useful buzzing around flat out every turn, Sweeping and Sweeping until they're shot down, but the more I use them, the more I see they can have a lot more utility than that. The other upgrades are, IMO, mostly boondoggles for the CCB Overlord. I would maybe consider the Phase Shifter, but I haven't really seen room for it even in 2000 pt lists.

I like giving him MSS as well.

The rule of thumb I always use is dont take a unit unless it can do multiple things for you. Lord in a barge is nice for opening vehicles but without the barge he will be in some trouble. With MSS as soon as the barge is gone he becomes a MC or IC hunter on foot. MSS on some tyranid MC have been game changing for me more than once so I would always take it.

I use both of mine with the full monthy, that way he creams a full unit at times:
Sweep, Shoot gauss cannon, then disembark, shackle hit... it does wonders

I didn't put gauss on mine but I wish I had. I dont think the Tesla Cannon matches with the gauss. Not to confuse the blaster with the carbine which honestly both are great.

Me and my buddies were just talking about this yesterday. I'm firmly in the camp that they shouldn't have any further upgrades. Warscythe+CCB and that's all. It keeps them reasonably cheap and fairly survivable.

I am building my list to fit into 1500 point games though, so I think at higher point values (around 2k) some extra wargear is warranted. At least sempiternal and maybe a tachyon arrow. With MSS being considered as well.

I think there are 2 very effective ways to run a barge lord;

OL+CCB+WS=180

or

OL+CCB+Ws + Weave, Mind Shackle + Phase shifter= 255

The first seems to be more popular and is a nice unit that will get you a few turns of sweep attacks.

For 75pts more the second load out is a real beast of a unit in my experience. You get your few turns of sweep attacks and then when the OL disembarks (is shot down) he can cause real problems for your enemy. He is very difficult to kill, to the point where I hope my opponent wastes shots on him, and is happy assaulting pretty much anything in the game. Ive had amazing success with a tooled up barge lord walking through Mech MSU Grey Knights and Dark Eldar armies like he is the Terminator from the movies. Take a look at the MTO necron battle reports by jy2 see how effective they can be.

To the OP: I would not recomend taking MSS unless your going the whole hog with SW+PS.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:I think there are 2 very effective ways to run a barge lord;
To the OP: I would not recomend taking MSS unless your going the whole hog with SW+PS.

They only way I could squeeze that in, would require me to drop a 10 man unit of deathmarks into a 10 man unit of warriors, i think, i'd have to do the math on that one.

Here's my list as it stands:

HQ - Overlord, warscyth, CCB
HQ - Overlord, warscyth, CCB

RC1 - 4 Lanceteks, 1 solar pulse, 1 despairtek with vod
RC2 - 3 Lanceteks, 1 solar pulse, 1 despairtek with vod

elite - Deathmarks x 10

troop - warrior x 10
troop - immortals x 10, tesla
troop - immortals x 10, tesla
troop - immortals x 10, guass

fast - scarabs x 8
fast - wraiths x 3, 3 whipcoils

about 5 points left over, this is 1850 btw

Do you see any fat that can be trimmed? Cause after the games I've played so far, I really feel that a MSS and SW on the Lords would be very useful. But, IDK where to get the sum 150 points.

reduce the deathmarks into 5 man squads. They serve best as suicide teams.

I do agree, but they're not as good without the VOD tek and I need him to move my scoring units around the field.

I may be missing it as I have only played necrons a few times, but what are the deathmarks doing for your list that your troops aren't? I guess the despair-tek flamer thing? Has that been working out well for you?

I would suggest dropping them, picking up at least 3 more wraiths (if you can get them), dropping a lancetek, and dropping the warrior squad down to a 5 man. That frees up a lot of points to play with. It seems like your list is missing an anti-armour element. You have the lance-teks, but then you are wasting the rest of the tesla immortals shooting.

I also think the despair-teks are much better in troop squads. That's the only mobility that they will see and it makes them awesome for late game contesting/scoring.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:reduce the deathmarks into 5 man squads. They serve best as suicide teams.

Agreed. Give each 5 man unit a Veil tek.

Dropping the warriors and running the lance-teks as 4 man squads with 3 lances and one Chrono-tek each might be good.

EDIT: Just taking 1 unit of 5 DMs with a veil-tek is probably your best bet. Use the spare points for OL wargear.

Anti-tank has no really been an issue for me. I got the CCbargs, two gausses, 7 lances, scarabs and wraiths.

Originally I had 10 wraiths in this list, but seeing how GW is going to be releasing them anytime soon, I'll have to do without.

The VOD need to stay with the Tesla immorts or I'll have no mobility in this list.

The deathmarks are just there to deal with rogue mc's and what not. But, i suppose they arent very necessary. I'd save 65 points if i kill that unit. And another ten to drop 1 whip coil.

Maybe I can make this work.

I have to tell you that 1 5 man unit with the veiltek has worked extremely well for me. In one particular Game I deepstruck in beside some devestators, wiped them out with the template. Next turn I got to fire on some death company took out 2 models. They eventually got assaulted by assault marines. however with ever living the cryptek got back up and flamered the assault unit (Sure I wound on leadership but it still hurt) I just kept ever living (Lucky i was) and so that one cryptek took out a devestator unit, an assault unit, and most of the death company. Paid in full

If I had another means of moving around the board then I'd totally do that! But, as it stands I can't give those VODteks away to suicide unit.

I'm thinking of dropping the Deathmark and taking another unit of warriors. I just had a agame against BA and I did pretty well, but I don't feel like the DM made their points back. Sure, the rending is nice, but for the cost I feel like they are pretty meh.

Another unit of ten warriors means I have anti tank and more objective scoring. Plus I'll have enough points to buy the MSS for both lords and the 2+ for both.

If GW does come out with the wraiths bofore adepticon then I might take those points and buy some more wraiths. I'd really like a unit of 5 over 3.

I run both of my CCB Overlords with Sempiternal Weave.

For 15 points, it allows you to take a pounding from most things you want to engage with the Lord. Having the 2+ gives you protection versus Long Fangs, Dreds, and MSUs; all of which are units that I end up engaging with the Lord to keep them from shooting or for cleanup purposes.

ZombieJoe wrote:If I had another means of moving around the board then I'd totally do that! But, as it stands I can't give those VODteks away to suicide unit.

I'm thinking of dropping the Deathmark and taking another unit of warriors. I just had a agame against BA and I did pretty well, but I don't feel like the DM made their points back. Sure, the rending is nice, but for the cost I feel like they are pretty meh.

Another unit of ten warriors means I have anti tank and more objective scoring. Plus I'll have enough points to buy the MSS for both lords and the 2+ for both.

If GW does come out with the wraiths bofore adepticon then I might take those points and buy some more wraiths. I'd really like a unit of 5 over 3.

Check my blog and you can see some home made wraiths, real simple conversion with left over parts from praet/gaurd kits

I'm only hesitant to make conversions cause I don't wanna waste the time and money on something I know I"m going to buy one day. Like I never converted Tervigons cause I knew that sooner or later they'd have to come out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's looking like, if I drop the DM to warriors, and 1 whip coil, I can take either:

1. MSS and SW for the Lords
or
2. Additional 2 wraiths ( I have 3 now, so I'd have 5 in the list)

The question becomes, what is more valuable?

ZombieJoe wrote:I'm only hesitant to make conversions cause I don't wanna waste the time and money on something I know I"m going to buy one day. Like I never converted Tervigons cause I knew that sooner or later they'd have to come out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's looking like, if I drop the DM to warriors, and 1 whip coil, I can take either:

1. MSS and SW for the Lords
or
2. Additional 2 wraiths ( I have 3 now, so I'd have 5 in the list)

The question becomes, what is more valuable?

The wraiths are in no way wasted money considering they are left over part from other models/kits I use. Though I am big into converting as I have Zandrekh, Obyron, 3 wraiths, 2 crypteks all kit bashed.