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Ok so a bit of backround. I've attempted to dabble in 40k every other year or so. I've only put an army together every now and then, only to trade it/sell it off. Recently i've traded off a Vampire Count army to make a return to 40k! So i THINK my local club plays roughly 1750pt games. So i'm working toward that point limit.


What i have:

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with Frost Axe/SS
Wolf Lord with Termie, TH+SS
Rune Priest in RA + Plasma Pistol

10x Grey Hunters, 2x PG, 1x PP, 1x Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters, 2x PG, 1x PP, 1x Wolf Standard

3x TWC
2x Landspeeders
4 Wolfguard
1 guy has 2 powerfists, 1 has the thunderhammer and stormsheild, Two have frostaxe and shield

5 wolfguard, terminator armor 1 has powersword and stormbolter, 1 poweraxe and stormbolter, 1 frostaxe and stormshield, 1 thunderhammer and stormshield (30), 1 assault cannon and powerweapon


Rhino
Razorback no weapons yet
1 Predator, twin linked turret lascannons, side sponson lascannons
1 landraider with MM
5 long fangs, heavy bolter, missle launcher, plasma cannon, lascannon, sergeant with powerglove and bolter


so the aggravating thing is that i want to fit EVERYTHING into one list!

What i'd like:

Wolf Lord on TW w. 3x TWC
Both Grey Hunters with Razorbacks with Lascannons
Both Land Speeders
Long Fangs
Terminators
Maybe a Dreadnought?!


Overall tactic -- lots of tank hunting heavy shooting to have Terminators + TWC clean up the mess. The land speeders have Heavy Flamers + MM to aide.

How much Tank hunting is too much? 2x Razorbacks with LC + Predator + LR + 2x Landspeeders too much? I thought the Landraider would be nice to provide cover for my TWC but then i'd have the termies right near the other CC unit....

Gah my brain hurts

Hmm, I don't have my codex to hand but let me see what I can do.

I think you'd be able to fit all you want into 1750 but a few things need work on. First thing that strikes me is your long fangs, at present I wouldn't use them at all. Your sergent doesn't need any upgrades at all, he's there to provide the split fire rule, thats it. As for the weapons they have, you neeed to specialise. 4x missile launchers are a common way to play them...and very effective. You need AT at 1750 as a lot of armies are either mech heavy or include plenty of monsterous creatures. Other than that I can't see anything drastically wrong with your units. The TWC could probably use some upgrades, SS and either power weapon or powerfists might be a good set up to look at unless you want to stick with the rending ability they have.

Hammer together a list with some points values for each unit and I'll see what else I can do.

thelordcal wrote:Ok so a bit of backround. I've attempted to dabble in 40k every other year or so. I've only put an army together every now and then, only to trade it/sell it off. Recently i've traded off a Vampire Count army to make a return to 40k! So i THINK my local club plays roughly 1750pt games. So i'm working toward that point limit.

Welcome back to 40K! Be sure to confirm the point size of the league before actually going

thelordcal wrote:Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with Frost Axe/SS
Wolf Lord with Termie, TH+SS
Rune Priest in RA + Plasma Pistol

The Wolf Lords are fine. There's other wargear you can tack on (Wolf Tooth Necklaces, Wolf Tail Talismans, Sagas, etc) but what they have is fine. The TDA Wolf Lord needs either a Drop Pod or Land Raider however. Both will be dead killy.

The Rune Priest is a problem. I'm assuming its the metal Rune Priest from GW. In any event, cut that Plasma Pistol off and give him a Bolt Pistol and never pay for Runic Armor. Priests are no longer combat powerhouses like in 3rd/4th Edition. They are support tools and its best to keep them cheap. Consider making a Chooser of the Slain (I find the Dark Eldar Razorwing models are perfect for this), and maybe getting a Meltabomb for him, but that would be the extent of it in my opinion. Keep him below 120 points.

thelordcal wrote:10x Grey Hunters, 2x PG, 1x PP, 1x Wolf Standard
10x Grey Hunters, 2x PG, 1x PP, 1x Wolf Standard

Get rid of those Plasma Pistols. The Plasma Guns are fine (I have 3 units with x2 Plasma Guns and 2 units with x2 Meltagun and I never wish I had more Melta), but the Pistols are overpriced. Mark of the Wulfen costs the same and gives you so much more. Its also easy to make models represent MotW (either with the Wolf helms, dual weilding close combat weapons, face warpaint, etc).

thelordcal wrote:3x TWC
2x Landspeeders
4 Wolfguard
1 guy has 2 powerfists, 1 has the thunderhammer and stormsheild, Two have frostaxe and shield

What do the TWC have? The 'standard' build seems to be 3 with 1 Storm Shield and 1 Storm Shield/Power Fist.

Are the Land Speeders magnetized? Or what do they have? Hopefully Multi-Meltas at least, but MM/HF would be better.

Those power armor Wolf Guard may look cool but are ineffective for their point costs, at least depending on the role you want for them. Wolf Guard are either a combat oriented squad or pack leaders. As pack leaders these guys aren't as useful, especially for units in Rhinos. Of course you don't have to have pack leaders but they are fairly useful...

thelordcal wrote:5 wolfguard, terminator armor 1 has powersword and stormbolter, 1 poweraxe and stormbolter, 1 frostaxe and stormshield, 1 thunderhammer and stormshield (30), 1 assault cannon and powerweapon

Power Swords and Power Axes are both Power Weapons. You could paint one of them to be a Frost Weapon for wound allocation shenanigans. Also remember you can mix armor, so you have 9 Wolf Guard. A shame you don't have another TDA with heavy weapon! Love the Assault Cannon though. Looks cool and from my experience it performs better than the CML, at least in the lists I run (there are lists where a CML is more proper).

thelordcal wrote:Rhino
Razorback no weapons yet
1 Predator, twin linked turret lascannons, side sponson lascannons
1 landraider with MM

The Predator is overpriced, sad to say. You can probably run it and be okay but I know my list would be able to shut it down shooting wise. The TLLC turret is just too expensive. If you can get it turned back into an Autocannon you'd be better off.

thelordcal wrote:5 long fangs, heavy bolter, missle launcher, plasma cannon, lascannon, sergeant with powerglove and bolter

The Sergeant shouldn't have any wargear and you have too many different weapons with the Long Fangs. Are they the old original plastic-metal ones? If so, that's cool but not very useful. All Missile Launchers is popular, if expensive money wise. Splitting weapons into two groups (anti-infantry and anti-tank) with roughly the same range on each grouping tends to work best.

If you had to use the new Devastator kit, I'd go two Heavy Bolters, one Missile Launcher, and two Lascannons. Not as efficient point wise as you could be but still effective with split fire.

thelordcal wrote:What i'd like:

Wolf Lord on TW w. 3x TWC
Both Grey Hunters with Razorbacks with Lascannons
Both Land Speeders
Long Fangs
Terminators
Maybe a Dreadnought?!

Totally possible at 1750, but your wargear options aren't 100% clear and how much 'correcting' you do to the models is up to you. Also, at 1750 you want 3-4 troops. So get some more Grey Hunters!

I would personally have not taken a few of your choices for different reasons.

So your wolf lord.
If you look at the math hammer a frost axe/ss combo is inferior to a wolf calw/ss load out. In almost every situation the wolf claws re-rolls to wound make it better then the frost blade. When it comes to taking a frost axe for vehicles I think since TWC have rending you should be fine.
Take a wolf tooth necklace on him to make sure he hits anything with a WS on 3's, runic armour keeps him alive a bit longer and if you take a wolf tail him and his squad that he joins have a 5+ against any psycic power.
There are a few sagas that would work for this load out. Saga of the bear, makes you harder to kill since psycic weapons and railguns can't splat you but this isn't that big a deal when you are in a squad. Saga of the warrior born, you can have 6 attacks on the charge and 9 in the second round of combat, it is broken and amazing at the same time. If you have lots of hordes in the local gaming shop then take it and mow through them but otherwise take something functional. Saga of magesty is also good, with the points in a wolf lord and twc pack you want to make sure they don't get pinned or something worse such as falling back 3D6 inches. Re-rolling LD on a 10 is a nice feature for a reasonable cost.

I hate landspeeders with a passion, more down to the flying stands and how brittle they used to be, probably still are knowing GW. They can lay out some good fire and are fairly mobile but for 50 points I can take 2 missile launcher long fangs which don't both die when a s7 shot comes at them. If you can use them well use them, I just dislike them.

Terminator wolf lord with 5 terminators. Well this is a difficult one to use. Do you have a land raider cursader or redeemer? If not then they will be moving 6 inches a turn and if you run them you can't bring the assault cannon to bear. The squad is to big to drop pod and a normal land raider asside from being a bit confused in what it should be doing is not going to take them.
I prefer to use wolf guard as squad leaders, pf and combi weapon for GH and wolf claw and combi weapon for scouts. They add to the army, I own 7 terminator models for space wolves and I just painted them pretty and have only used them in fun games. I don't see them as great value for money on the board unless you go for an all out logan wing which can work but requires a bit of an investment in more LRs and more terminators.

The normal wolf guard are not spectacular, they don't seem to be doing anything more then trying to be cc monsters and putting 40 points of powerfists on a guy for 4 attacks at s8 i1 is a waste of points. 2 claws would work out far better for you but that would limit what the squad he was attached to could do, the combi-weapons troopers give you an extra shot or 2 if you take plasma when it's needed. If you are facing a massive horde coming for your squad when they are in cover then you need those extra shots. The squad can do it's job anyway in cc but gh should be tooled out as a mixed role unit, cc and shooting. Their wolf guard should be similar.

Rune priests are grand, runic armour isn't a must as they should be in a squad maybe in with 8 GH and a wolf guard in a rhino. lots of men lots of wounds and a rhino to hide in until it gets popped or it's time to fight. The plasma pistol on him is a joke, he has shooting psycic powers and if you don't want to use them then get a wolf priest but if you do drop the pistol as you can't shoot a psycic power and the gun in the same turn.
For the cost of the plasma pistol you could take a wolf talil talisman for extra anti-psyker protection and a chooser of the slain.

Plasma pistols don't work with your grey hunters, you have 2 rapid fire plasma guns for 10 points with 12-24 inch range and for 15 you have 1 shot with 12 inch range. I think it is a false economy, the two guns willl shoot men appart but the pistol is a last ditch shot and not worth the points IMHO. Since you have a wolf standard maybe MOTW or a power weapon would sit better with that squad, it gives them a better chance when they get charged. You won't be charging as you can get 2-3 wounds per round of shooting with just the plasma guns, wait and counter charge.
If you had more troops I would suggest a foot slog list since you can use the terminator wolf guard to offer a cc edge to the squads and give you a very tough to kill man that can sit on an objective and wait while the rest of the squad shoots and dies. In that case your terminators would be a godsend.

For the TWC arm them with a thunder hammer and stormsheild each, they are gonna be taking some serious fire power and while they don't die from krak missiles instantly the missiles do go right through their armour.

Long fangs need to be at most 2 different weapons types and they need to compliment each other's range and role. 2 plamsa cannons and 3 heavy bolters are great at killing troops and the plasma can take out the odd transport if your squad leader is still alive. 2 lazcannons and 3 missile launchers work well together for anti-armour drills and the lazcannons can ensure 2 dead men if you go for troops. One of each type means you are often out of range so the lazcannon and missile launcher can go for one target while the HB and PC go for another but a multimelta is only any good when it can get up in your face. When your leader dies cos he is the first you want to kill other then your multimelta long fang, you can't split fire so either your are loosing out on killing lots of troops or on taking out armour. The squad leader should never have any upgrades as he is just there for fire control and taking a wound.

If you want to go for a deathstar don't use a godhammer landraider, use any other one, that makes you more anti-infantry but the multi-melta will take out tanks too.

With what you have I would try something like this.

Wolf lord tooled out
3x twc

terminator lord, 4 terminator wg in landraider crusader + the other wg

2x 10 man GH squads 2 plasma guns, motw, wolf banner with a TDA WG with assault cannon on one(if you can get a second wg with assault cannon stick in on the second GH squad).

6 Long fangs with 5 counts as missile launchers.
Razorback with tl lazcannon.

2x Land speeders with Multimelta instead of HB for tank killing.

And throw in your predator as you will be needing more heavy fire.

Ok the first take on the list...

Wolf Lord - 225pts.
-Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Thunder Wolf, Wolftooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of the Majesty

8x Grey Hunters - 165pts.
-Plasma Gun, Rhino

8x Grey Hunters - 165pts.
-Plasma Gun, Rhino

8x Grey Hunters - 165pts.
-Plasma Gun, Rhino

6x Grey Hunters - 175pts.
-Plasma Gun, LasPlas Rhino

3x Thunder Wolf Cavalry - 240pts.
-SS/TH + SS/CCW + CCW/BP

2x Land Speeders - 140pts.
-MM, Heavy Flamer

Lone Wolf - 85pts.
-Terminator Armor, TH/SS

Predator - 165pts.
-TLLC, Side Sponsons w. LC

Ok so this is the army as it stands now... i have exactly 225pts left to spend... I was thinking maybe a Dreadnought in a drop pod with TLLC and some other goodies or maybe the Wolf Priest + some scouts or long fangs?


The idea is for the Razorback GH to camp any objective in my deployment zone, keeping the unit safe inside... The other 3 squads surge forward in their rhinos to contest/claim objectives with the TWC coming up in their wake... The land speeders deep strike in and start popping tanks. I have a lot of Long Range Anti-tank fire power ATM, maybe i need some more medium range? Maybe something with a little more combat punch? I really like the idea of the dread but i'd have to buy one and a drop pod... I found a kid at the shop looking to sell some poorly put together MArines, i might be able to convince him to sell me his 2x Missile Launchers, then with another devastator box i could have 2 long fang packs as described? Maybe dropping the predator to help compliment that?


Thoughts on the Wolf Lord load out? I could probably drop the Saga, or drop him to a Wolf Guard Battle Leader. What about the wolf claw over the FW?

Gah so many decisions!

On the wolf lord change saga of the warrior born for runic armour and saga of magesty more survival and almost promises never to fail a LD check.

With what's left and if you drop the lone wolf you could stick in 3 wg with pf & combi weapons and a squad of 8 space wolves, metla gun and rhino

Update: Swapped Warrior Borne for Majesty. Thanks for the tip