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I'm new to Warhammer Fantasy. I usually play Eldar in 40K, but my friend bought me an Isle of Blood set. From then on, I somehow managed to acquire two more boxes of archers, sword masters, and even a dragon. I wanted to play a 3000 point game and was trying to make list to take on any threat. I've only played one Fantasy game and that's was at 1500 so I'm not sure if this list would even make sense. Please let me know how you guys think it may or may not work or suggestions. Thanks a lot

Core:

Lorthern Sea Guard x 20 (with shield, sword master, musician, and standard bearer) [5x4 block]
Lorthern Sea Guard x 20 (with shield, sword master, musician, and standard bearer) [5x4 block]

Archers x 16 (with hawk eye, musician, standard bearer) [8x2 block]
Archers x 16 (with hawk eye, musician, standard bearer) [8x2 block]

Special:

Ellyrion Reavers x 5 (with harbinger, musician, standard bearer) [5x1 block]
Ellyrion Reavers x 5 (with harbinger, musician, standard bearer) [5x1 block]
Ellyrion Reavers x 5 (with harbinger, musician, standard bearer) [5x1 block]

Sword masters of Hoeth x 34 (with Banelord: has Sword of Might and Biting Blade, musician, Standard Bearer: has Lion Standard) [5x7 block]

Lords:

Archmage: level 4, Sigil of Asuryan, Silver Wand (Book of Life: Regrowth, Throne of Vines Flesh to Stone, Shield of Thorns or The Dweller's Below - can't decide)

Archmage: level 4, Sigil of Asuryan, Silver Wand (Book of Beasts: Pann's Impenetrable Pelt, The Amber Spear, The Savage Beast of Horros, Wyssan's Wildform or The Curse of Anraheir, or Transformation of Kadon - can't decide)

Heroes:

Korhil

Noble: Great Eagle, Dragon Armor, Lance, Shield (Foe Bane)

Noble: Barded Elven Steed, Shield, Dragon Armor (Star Lance, Talisman of Loec)


The Strategy:

Block of Sword Masters move up while flanked by the Sea Guards to protect the flanks. Korhil is with the Sword Masters as part of the spearhead formation. Archers fire from the back to whittle down the opponent (won't do much, but I've acquired archers somehow) or sacrificial flank protectors. Ellryion Reavers fly around the battlefield, positioning themselves to cut off extras attacks by attacking flanks. Noble on barded steed helps for the extra tough units. Archmages provides buffing support and giant bolt throwers, while regenerating lost units. Noble on Great Eagle go siege hunting.

Personal thoughts: While good on paper, I felt I spent too much on lords and nobles (about 1000 worth) and that I may be overwhelmed by numbers. There's also not much shooting units, although shooting barely does anything for me. Also I feel that if a flank were to fall my entire formation would crumble.

Any thoughts are welcome and thanks for reading.

You don't get to choose your spells you roll for them, get a bsb into your list they are essential in 8th, magic items are unique so only 1 in each army can take them. I wouldn't take champions for your sea guard, a 1 wound T3 model with a 5+ armour save is not something you want possibly giving +7 combat res to your opponent

Reavers are a waste of points. 34 Swordmasters is all your eggs in one basket that something like Dwellers will eat right up.

Swordmasters are best in units of 12 or 14 run 6 or 7 wide, command optional but only musician mandatory.

As said, magic items are unique, so you can't take 2 of any of them in a single army list. Also, a character can't take both the Sword of Might AND the Biting Blade. You can only take 1 magic item from each category on a single character.

Champions and standards in archers are wasted points. Sea Guard need to be 25 strong if you insist on taking them. 1 unit is enough.


Main point, you need to read carefully the main rulebook so that you have a proper grasp on the rules governing list design. Once you understand the basic rules of list design, then we can better assist you in picking the right units to help you have success with your army.

Thanks guys for leading me on the right track. I'm reading through the magic item section of the rulebook and I see what you mean. Each item is unique, and a character can take 1 from each category. (I was thinking 40K war gear terms)

Also, why are reavers useless? I was thinking them to be sacrificial units to flank and prevent enemy attacks. Would dragon princes be better?

I'll add a BSB in there somehow. Not sure to either give it to the noble on steed or great eagle.

I'll work with the sea guards and sword masters again, see what I can do.

Lastly, do you guys think 2 mages is a little overboard? I wanted to be magic heavy, or should I get a dragon? And what magic books do you guys recommend for High Elves?

I've been reading the rulebook, I think I grasp about 80% of it. I'll try to nail the remaining 20% As usual, thanks guys for your input.

2 Level 4 mages will often be fighting over power dice with their spells, but it would certainly give you a heavy variety. Perhaps dropping one of the wizards to a level 2 hero? Since you can nab a signature out of one of your spells no matter what, beasts can work as a level 2 as Wyssan's Wild form is really nice, makes Spearmen actually a threat. XD

BSBs are best as a center anchor for your battleline. They should be on foot unless they have a solid cavalry unit to go in. They should NEVER be alone. Their bubble or rerolls is great and the main reason for taking one.

Swordmasters are a glass cannon and since only the first 2 ranks can attack, big units are often just expensive ablative wounds. 2 Units of 15 or so would be pretty good. Hell, if you can squeeze 3 units of 12 that might be great.

I think why people hate the reavers is that they are still pretty expensive, especially as a sacrificial unit. But I don't think they're useless, they can work as great redirectors. Charge them up in front of a nasty enemy units, a few inches away and at an odd angle. The point is the unit can't move because the Reavers are in the way, so they have to either waste a turn reforming or they charge the reavers. Since the Reavers are at an odd angle, they lead the nasty block away with a flee reaction, allowing you to either do a flank charge, or just keep delaying that unit. It's a nice strategy and is one of Fast Cavalry's best traits. Though, most High Elves use Eagles for that route instead. Another use of the Reavers is Warmachine hunting, using their speed to get at Warmachines before they do much damage. Once again, Eagles can do this better and don't use Special slots, but I assume you have the models and might as well use what you have.

BTW, assuming you have at least 1 guy on Griffon from the Island of Blood, you might be able to convert that griffon into an Eagle. Might take a bit of working, but I think it's doable, and the Eagle will probably be more useful/get used more than the Griffon.

So after listening to everyone's advice, this is what I've come up with:

Core:

Lorthern Sea Guard x 20 (shield, standard bearer, musician)
Lorthern Sea Guard x 20 (shield, standard bearer, musician)

Archers x 16 (hawkeye, musician)
Archers x 16 (hawkeye, musician)

Special:

Sword Masers of Hoeth x 11(Bladelord - Radiant Gem of Hoeth, musician, standard bearer - lion standard)

Sword Masters of Hoeth x 12
Sword masters of Hoeth x 12

Ellyrian reavers x 5
Ellyrian reavers x 5
Ellyrian reavers x 5

Lord:

Prince (Sun Dragon, Dragon Armor, Shield, Vambraces of Defence, Star Lance)

Archmage (level 4)

Heroes:

Korhil

Mage (level 2, Silver wand)

Noble (Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armor, Shield, The White Sword)

Would this be a better list? I'm planning on taking lore of beasts for the archmage (buff entire army +3 toughness and +3 strength if I can roll it) and lore of life (for regrowth, flesh of stone, and the prevent miscast with 2+ if I can get those spells) Then plow in with blocks of muscly S: 6 T: 6 elves with reavers outflanking. Oh and the little hoeth magician uses signature spell from lore of death (that mind war equivalent from the elder codex, can't remember it off the top of my head) to take care of nasty things like skull taker.

Hawkeye's are a waste of points in your archer units.

Your list kinda looks like its filled with to much bloat just to make points WHFB works fine at 2400pts so maybe playing smaller games will allow you to make a better list.

I am going to offer you a list based on what is easily available. The list can easily be improved upon but it will offer a reasonable starter army with little waste from the core boxsets.

SkyHawk wrote:
Core:

Lorthern Sea Guard x 20 (shield, standard bearer, musician)
Lorthern Sea Guard x 20 (shield, standard bearer, musician)

Archers x 16 (hawkeye, musician)
Archers x 16 (hawkeye, musician)

Take one unit of Lothern Sea Guard (unless you got lots from multiple Island of Blood boxsets). They are rather overpriced.
Archers are likewise overpriced. Spearelves are where you want to place your Core points. One unit of at least 30 with full command.

I would go with:

24 Lothern Sea Guard, with full command. (One Island of Blood unit plus more from eBay).
2x10 archers with musicians (from battalion boxset)
36 spearelves with full command (one battalion boxset plus one spearelf boxset)

SkyHawk wrote:
Special:

Sword Masers of Hoeth x 11(Bladelord - Radiant Gem of Hoeth, musician, standard bearer - lion standard)

Sword Masters of Hoeth x 12
Sword masters of Hoeth x 12

Ellyrian reavers x 5
Ellyrian reavers x 5
Ellyrian reavers x 5

Ok, how many Islands of Blood have you got already?
You will get most of what you want with one boxset.

My take:

Special

9 Swordmasters with champion and musician (one Island of Blood unit)
5 Ellyrian Reavers with musician (one Island of Blood unit)
30 White Lions with full command (three boxsets)
1 Chariot (from battalion boxset)

Rare:

1 Bolt Thrower (from battalion boxset)
2 Eagles (two blister packs)

SkyHawk wrote:
Lord:

Prince (Sun Dragon, Dragon Armor, Shield, Vambraces of Defence, Star Lance)

Archmage (level 4)

Heroes:

Korhil

Mage (level 2, Silver wand)

Noble (Battle Standard Bearer, Dragon Armor, Shield, The White Sword)

Ty this for now:

Prince on Griffon (from Island of Blood)
Mage/Archmage (from Island of Blood)
BSB (Island of Blood swordmaster standard bearer for now, later one High Elf hero boxset).



All this requires:
One Island of Blood starter set
One of two 'lots' of Island of Blood Lothern Sea Guard from eBay
One High Elf Battalion boxset
One High Elf Spearmen boxset
Three White lion boxsets
Two Great Eagle blister/boxsets


Reasons for the above.

10 Lothern Sea Guard is a fairly useless amount frankly. I personally wouldn't bother with them at all, but you seem to like them therefore buy enough to make one reaasonably sized unit. You will get wastage, each subsequent lot will provide seven more Sea Guard plus useless extra commands. Therefore two lots will provide 24 in total with six command figures wasted. This is more than enough, it makes for an expensive but worthy utility unit.
The battalion boxset will provide enough archers for two units of ten. Give both u8nits musicians and no other command.
The battalion boxset also provides 20 spearelves, add tyhis to a boxset of 16 to make one large unit of 36 spearelves. This is your anvil.
The main offensive punch comes from 30 White Lions enough for a deep unit of a 10x3 horde. White lions are stubborn so you can afford a shallow unit, deploy in five ranks or three depending on circumstances.
Round off your infantry with one unit of Swordmasters from Island of Blood, you could get more from eBay to make up 17 or 24. You dont really need to frankly. Swordmasters are better off as small ujnits and you can affectively start with just one.
Back them up with a chariot and bolt thrower from the battalion boxset. Choose whichever chariot type you liike the most, both types are good. I prefer the Tiranoc chariot because its cheaper and still does the job of proving impact hits, the Lion Chariot is far more survivable and more useful in a drawn out fight.
Eagles are essential, two are enough though many players take more. You can however get more later, stick with two for now.
You start with two characters from Island of Blood. A griffon is overpriced and weak but the model is nice and it can work if you are careful. the mage needs no introduction. For now use the swordmaster standard bearer as a BSB, later buy the hero boxset, there is a BSB. Use that to make a BSB on foot and a cavalry hero.

This should be enough to start with. After these think about a Mage boxset, a Dragon boxset, one Dragon Princes boxset and eventually two or three Phoenix Guard boxsets. By then you will be more or less done.

The bladelord can't take Radiant Gem as it's 45 points and he can only take 25.

First off I would like to say thanks for all the inputs you guys give. They really give me a perspective from a different angle. Secondly, Aerethan, you're right, I took the gem of Hoeth illegally, thanks for pointing that out. Also, you're right, they die horrendously to Dweller's of the Deep. Orlanth, I somehow acquired 3 Island of Blood (1 as a gift, 1 for a trade for BA, and I got myself 1)

So I used the altered list that I put up last night in a game today. In my local GW, the ratio of 40K to Fantasy is about 95% 40K. So my opponent today was a Daemon player. We both started Fantasy together so we were a bit new.

Here's basically a short summary of what happened:

Kairos dominated me in terms of magic and dispelling. (Partly because I rolled horribly too. Turn 1 I got 2 magic dice from the winds of magic)
Prince on Dragon is devastating, but loses its momentum after charge (because of Star Lance). Attacked a 5x7 unit of Bloodletters.
Archmage died in Turn 1 because he was not with a unit, got shot by Flamers of Tzeentch. Lost all Lore of Beast.
Dweller's of the deep took out 18 of the 34 Sword Masters. (Lessoned learned, will head everyone's advice now)
Ellyrion reavers being sacrificial flankers do not work if your unit cannot get into combat in time and you have Bloodcrushers chasing after you with Seekers of Slaanesh for good measure.
Plaguebearers of Nurgle destroyed a unit of 10 Ellyrian Reavers (with that D6 hit, then do a toughness test)

All in all, I could've played smarter, but its lessoned learned.

Here's what I have now:

46 Sea Guards
35 Sword Masters of Hoeth
32 Archers
3 Mages/Archmages
1 Prince on Dragon
2 Prince on Griffon (1 more is coming soon)
1 Korhil
1 Prince on Barded Steed
1 Noble with Battle Standard Bearer
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor
10 Phoenix Guards

Since its a learning process, for now my opponent has agreed to let me use one of the Archmages as Teclis (since he has Kairos).
Here's my new strategy I'm thinking:

Dragon Princes, since they have Dragon Armor.
Phoenix Guard to tarpit something.
Splitting Sword Masters of Hoeth into 3 squads of 12 (12, 12, 11 + Korhil) Not sure whether to give full command.
46 Spearelves with full command
Teclis (he has Kairos, its only fair lol.) - (Give him Lore of Beast - or something else you guys suggest)
Mage - (Give him Lore of Life - or something else you guys suggest) + Jewel of the Dusk
Noble with Banner of Scorcery (Gives me 2D3 + 2D6 + plus a 1 for any "6" with any mages) - rolling 2 for 2D6 is really depressing.
Prince on Barded Steed with Dragon Armor and Foe Bane

I'll rework the math and numbers in a bit, but for now this is what I'm thinking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since the only active Fantasy player right now is my friend, he wouldn't mind me using Sea Guards as spear elves as a test.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, this brings a few questions. Asides from being stubborn, why would Lion Guards be better than Sword Masters? Sword Masters have an extra attack hurts more I think. What are the uses of Eagles? Don't they just die to archer fire since they have no armor? And lastly, for 30 points more, you can have a dragon rather than a griffon. Wouldn't that be better? I'm also going to get a bolt thrower soon. Its just I heard from a previous High Elf player that chariots weren't good. Also, someone else told me that bolt throwers were not good. Can you explain a little about that? Thanks

In regards to your questions, Whitelions are loved not only because of the stubborn but because of the lion cloak saves stops them dying in droves to missile fire.

Great eagles are used to pull enemy blocks out of position and to hunt warmachines.

100% correct about the dragon (chop the rider of the griffon to turn it into an eagle)

Bolt throwers are over costed compared to other races warmachines but uses can be found for them never just take one however as it will do next to nothing.

To elaborate further on the bolt throwers for HEs shooting to work you need to make your army around the idea so 2 bolt throwers and all your core filled with archers CAN work but you need to take shadow to debuff the enemys Toughness and the HE lore to cast the arrow attraction spell.

SkyHawk wrote:
Here's what I have now:

46 Sea Guards
35 Sword Masters of Hoeth
32 Archers
3 Mages/Archmages
1 Prince on Dragon
2 Prince on Griffon (1 more is coming soon)
1 Korhil
1 Prince on Barded Steed
1 Noble with Battle Standard Bearer
5 Dragon Princes of Caledor
10 Phoenix Guards

Ok. That helps.

Buy:

3x or 4x Spearelf boxsets (48 or 64 spearelves) - For one unit of fifty or two units of 30+
2x or 3x Bolt Thrower boxsets - You want missile heavy, get missile heavy. Bolt throwers, get 2+ or dont bother
3x White Lion boxsets - 30 White Lions, see below
2x later 4x Great Eagle blisters - Peerless redirectors
1x Phoenix Guard boxset - 20 is a worthy tarpit, 10 doesnt last
2x Chariot boxsets - For completion and to give a bit of oomph to back up an infantry charge.
maybe 1x Silver Helm boxset - again for completion

Army done.

How did you get so many sea guard and swordmasters? With three Islands of Blood each should have a single 24 strong unit or 2x10

SkyHawk wrote:
Oh, this brings a few questions. Asides from being stubborn, why would Lion Guards be better than Sword Masters? Sword Masters have an extra attack hurts more I think. What are the uses of Eagles? Don't they just die to archer fire since they have no armor? And lastly, for 30 points more, you can have a dragon rather than a griffon. Wouldn't that be better? I'm also going to get a bolt thrower soon. Its just I heard from a previous High Elf player that chariots weren't good. Also, someone else told me that bolt throwers were not good. Can you explain a little about that? Thanks

Swordmasters vs White Lions

1. Swordmasters get two attacks. However only the tfront rank gets full attacks, rerar ranks only support with one, so the advantage is less than it looks. Swordmasters do best therefore in single ranks or small units used to flank and inflict damage.
White Lions get only one attack, but rear ranks only provide one attack maximum anyway so you are only one attack behind per file. If you place them in horde 10x3 then you get as many attacks per file as the Swordmasterd (not in horde) will.

2. White Lions are stubborn so you can afford to place therm in a thin horde, that would not be survivable with Swordmasters.

3. The armour of White lions is better. Swordmasters get a 5+ all round which is too easily whittled away by strength to next to nothing. White Lions only get a 6+ in melee and so likewise doesnt get an efective save. Anti-missile armour however is 4+ which is more hardy. Missiles tend to have fewer modifiers than melee as most missiles are S3 or S4 and those that arent normally ignore all armour anyway. As striking first is a Highh Elfs best protection in melee, not the armour save the anti missile armnour is more valuable. Thus while similar on paper a White Lion is better outfitted than a Swordmaster in terms of armour.

4. A 'throw in' bonuses in woodlands, situational at best but still there. Don't have your White lions positioned to make best use of trees, deploy them depending on your and your opponents army, if the woodland benefit happens to make a difference so be it.

Chariots

Underrated. As warhammer is all about infantry now you. This means that fast moving punch units are less important than they used to be. However you may need somehing to attack alongside infantry to give them some punch in a charge, cavalry can but chariots can better. Dont send off chariots alone, team them up with infantry, charge together. Get as many into combat as possible, which means all the infantry plus the chariot on a corner. that little corner can provide enough to attack with all the combat weight of the chariot, which can be significant. This heightens something High Elves are already good at, concentration of force.

Bolt Throwers

Expensive, they need a discount allowing for how perversely good Empire stuff is. The bolt thrower is your 'cannon', and sorry it will have to do. This means to kill a big monster in one turnyou will need at least three. Gw is emphasising monsters more, the trouble is they either get blown away by cannon if the opponent has them or they get to stomp. High Elves are one of the victim armies, potentially. Thety do have stuff to deal with monsters, but it normally needs a bit of help, bolt throwers are that help.
The bolt throwers have a secondary role as a troop sweeper. 6 shots however is not really enough, not with unit sizes being what they are, 18 shots, now that is likely to do something.
Bolt throwers, taken them or leave them, but if you take them take three, or at a minimum two.

With the inputs that everyone gave, here is a revision of the list (since my opponent will be the same daemon player considering the lack of Fantasy players), he'll allow me to proxy a few things to test out before buying the models. As to how I managed to acquire that many sword masters and sea guards, when I traded my BA, in addition to Island of Blood there were a box of spear men in which he converted to sea guards, and 5 extra metal sword masters.

My next goal of new acquisition are bolt throwers.

Core: 760

Spear elves (full command, banner of arcane protection) x 46 - using the sea guards temporarily

Archers x 13 (musician)
Archers x 13 (musician)

Special: 757

Dragon Princes of Caledor x 5 (full command, Ellyrion Banner)

Phoenix Guard x 10 (Full command, banner of sorcery)

Sword Masters of Hoeth x 10 (musician)
Sword Masters of Hoeth x 10 (musician)

Lords: 744

Teclis - using an Island of Blood mage temporarily

Prince (dragon armor, great sword, elven steed, armor of caledor, vambrace of defense [not sure if I'm allowed to equip dragon armor and armor of caledor])

Heroes: 540

Mage (level 2, amulet of fire, jewel of the dusk, barded elven steed)

Noble (battle banner, dragon armor, great weapon,)

Caradryan (using Korhil temporarily)

This leaves 200 points left over. I don't know whether to get 10 Ellyrion Reavers (they're at the bottom priority imo), 10 more sword masters, temporarily proxy 10 sword masters to add 2 ranks to phoenix guards, proxy white lions, or remove the level 2 mage and get a dragon mage (with the same magic items). I'm open for suggestions here.

Lastly, I'm not sure which lore of magic to get. I was originally thinking beast for Tecis and life for the mage, but I'm really not sure. I don't know what lores are best suited for high elves.

Thanks for your inputs again.

Armour of Caledor is dragon armour.

Besides you can only have one item of magic armour.

For armour you can have armour + shield + magic item which if armour or shield replaces the mundane armour or shield. You can get magic armour items that add to normal armour, like a helm or gauntlets.

With a prince on barded elf steed and dragon armour and shield is enough, it yields a 2+ save. vambraces of defense gives you a reroll to that plus a 4+ ward. Dropping the shield for a greatsword means a 3+ rerollable which is fine.
Amulet of Light would be good for him, make all the Dragon Princes attacks magical. Big difference vs daemons.

Magical attacks make no difference against daemons as they have normal ward saves. You may be thinking of older rules or forest spirits that had saves denied to magic attacks.