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Hi all,

in my GC there is the trend to play 750 Point games every week right now. I like larger games but ... well you cant have everything
So here is what i plan this week:

*************** 1 HQ ***************

Runepriest
- Bolter
- Choser
- LL
- JOTWW
- - - > 110 P

Runepriest
- Choser
- LL
- MHurricane
- - - > 110 P



*************** 2 Standard ***************

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- Standart
- Motw
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- Standart
- Motw
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P



*************** 1 HS ***************

LF
5 LF
- 4 x ML
+ - Razorback
- Las/plas
- - - > 190 P


Overall : 750

The list is illegal since both Rune Priests have similar wargear. Suggestion - drop chooser on one of them. I'd take 5 scouts with meltagun and join three GH packs into two bigger ones, each led by Rune Priest. It's good that You do not take powerfists on hunters, but both power weapon and mark seems like an overkill for 750 points. And You lack serious long-range antitank (Living Lightning does not count for such).

I would try and stick in some ranged fire, if you drop the lone wolf and the weak squad of GH.
You can have a squad with 5 long fangs and 4 missile launchers, you can have another long fang if you drop a chooser and the plasma gun down to a melta gun.

The living lightening is fine for taking vehicles with poor armour but against space marines and the like it's like throwing mud at a wall, eventually the wall will fall over but I wouldn't count on it.

CainTheHunter wrote:The list is illegal since both Rune Priests have similar wargear. Suggestion - drop chooser on one of them. I'd take 5 scouts with meltagun and join three GH packs into two bigger ones, each led by Rune Priest. It's good that You do not take powerfists on hunters, but both power weapon and mark seems like an overkill for 750 points. And You lack serious long-range antitank (Living Lightning does not count for such).

Thanks for the input. How about that approach:

*************** 1 HQ ***************

Runepriest
- LL
- Jotww
- - - > 100 P

Runepriest
- choser
- LL
- hurricane
- - - > 110 P



*************** 1 Elite ***************

Wolfsscout
5 Wolfsscouts
- Melta
- - - > 85 P



*************** 2 Standard ***************

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- power weapon
- banner
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- power weapon
- banner
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P


*************** 1 Heavy Support ***************

Long Fangs
5 Long Fangs
- 4 x ML
- - - > 115 Punkte

Total: 750

I think you are off on your points there, that looks like 850 to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also MOTW is on average better then a power weapon.
D6+2 attacks with rending on the charge and you can re-roll 1's with the wolf banner if you use it.

uhm no its 750 Oo

Sorry, just glanced it. My mistake.

liturgies of blood wrote:I think you are off on your points there, that looks like 850 to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also MOTW is on average better then a power weapon.
D6+2 attacks with rending on the charge and you can re-roll 1's with the wolf banner if you use it.

On paper the motw may be better than the power weapon. My experience is that i dont roll rendings ... ever. When im charged by a squad of terminators (hiding myself in cover) i really want reliabilty thats why i use power weapons in that list. It fits the meta in my gc better than the motw (at least on that point level).

Im thinking of dropping 1 GH in one of the packs and give a power weapon to the wolfscouts to improve their cc abilities. Thoughts?

Possible armies i face:
DE, Orcs, Deathwing, Chaos, Blood Angels, Tau, Eldar, Vanilla Marines, Imperial Guard and sometime Tyranids

You could drop the 2nd rune priest and the two power weapons and take 3 wolf guard with a combi melta and power fist or a wolf claw for the scouts. That might give you a cc edge in each of the squads, the power fist does hit last but you should have enough men to ensure he lives that long in the GH and a wolf claw with 3 attacks on the charge should kill 1 terminator and the 2 melta shots should have another one dead. Might be of use.

Good idea. I'll try the list as posted this week and what you suggested next week and see how they both work .

That would be the list (the wolfclaw guys join the scouts and the gh squad without the priest and the power weapon guy joins the squad with the priest):

*************** 1 HQ ***************

Runepriest
- LL
- Jotww
- - - > 100 P


*************** 2 Elite ***************

Wolfsscout
5 Wolfsscouts
- Melta
- - - > 85 P

Wolf guard
3 Wolf Guard
- 3 x Combi-Melta
- 1 x Power Weapon
- 2 x Wolf Claw
- - - > 109 pts


*************** 2 Standard ***************

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- power weapon
- banner
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- power weapon
- banner
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 Pts


*************** 1 Heavy Support ***************

Long Fangs
5 Long Fangs
- 4 x ML
- - - > 115 Pts

Total: 749 Pts

Excellent. I prefer two Power Weapons and Mark of the Wulfen on my Scouts myself (even in larger games) but at 750 we all must make sacrifices. I think your list is now very lean and mean!

The only changes I can think of at the moment would involve drastically altering the list, so there isn't much of a point. Good luck!

Hey,

back for today with two losses.

i Played this list

*************** 1 HQ ***************

Runepriest
- LL
- Jotww
- - - > 100 P

Runepriest
- choser
- LL
- hurricane
- - - > 110 P



*************** 1 Elite ***************

Wolfsscout
5 Wolfsscouts
- Melta
- - - > 85 P



*************** 2 Standard ***************

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- power weapon
- banner
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- power weapon
- banner
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P


*************** 1 Heavy Support ***************

Long Fangs
5 Long Fangs
- 4 x ML
- - - > 115 Punkte

Total: 750

First game was against Blood Angels. Annihilation,
From memory:
3 Cybots (1 dc cybot and 2 furiosos in droppods with flamer and shrapnell)
a reclusiarch and a squad of ~6-7 dc with pw and pf in a drop pod iirc.

I deployed the rhinos behind a structure and the long fangs on it. (had first turn)
cybots killed almost all long fangs first turn (4 of 5) cybots were meltad down or rocketed down.
DC just cleaned the floor with my 2 squads of gh+runepriests (omg do they have some serious cc punch ). Definitely a playing mistake made by me. Could have played better and wouldve won (im kinda curious how long it takes me to learn that i should stay in my metal boxes until im forced to leave them since thats my main mistake ... not knowing when to leave and when to stay in that rhino )

Second game was against dark eldar. Seize ground 5 objectives.
From memory:
Archon+4 incubi in transport
2x 10 cabalites in transports
1 talos
1 cronos

Was setting up a fire base near 2 objectives in my zone (going first)

Rune priests were working perfectly in that game.Shot with LL on range and annihilated their transports and later jawsd the cronos and slowed down his warriors with murd. hurricane on their way to one objective. Still the talos reached my gh on one objective and contested and he had 2 objectives in the end. So still a loss. Think i did almost everything correct in that game but also realised that only having 2 troop choices can be a big disadvantage.


But im happy. I didnt lose because the list was inferior but because i did some mistakes. I like the list and will certainly play it next week too. I noticed that since i stayed on range against the DE the melta wasnt of much use. So im thinking about getting a plasma gun in one of the gh squad because of the 24 inches s7 instead of firing a bolter shot because you know you are more than 12 inches away. The only way to accomplish that in that list is either dropping the choser on the LL/MH-Priest (but i liked having BF5 on him ) or dropping both melta for a flamer and a plasma but im afraid im losing some punch if i face more av 12-13 vehicles like necrons or imps.

The scouts were performing okay. In the first game they came in when everything was done (2 gh squads and 2 runepriests already wiped out ) and in the second game they did exactly what they are supposed to. Walked in from where i needed them and meltad down the Archon+incubi transport and effectively cancelled them out that way because they had to footslog from nomansland to me from that point on. So im kinda undecided if i keep them or not. Any suggestions what i could drop them for?

I prefer the 1 Rune Priest list but I will point out that having identical wargear doesn't make the list illegal as long as the psychic powers are different.

It's the combination of model type, wargear, psychic powers and sagas overall that must be different.

Jefffar wrote:I prefer the 1 Rune Priest list but I will point out that having identical wargear doesn't make the list illegal as long as the psychic powers are different.

It's the combination of model type, wargear, psychic powers and sagas overall that must be different.

I really liked the 2 runepriests. If i wouldve played the 1 runepriest list i wouldve done far worse against the enemies i played. Since all ccs i was in a pw/pf/wc-WG wouldnt have made any noticable difference. Not having a second runepriest wouldve made a big difference

Jefffar wrote:I prefer the 1 Rune Priest list but I will point out that having identical wargear doesn't make the list illegal as long as the psychic powers are different.

It's the combination of model type, wargear, psychic powers and sagas overall that must be different.

Page 81 of the codex. Leaders of the Pack: ...no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psycic powers or wargear combination.
Also in the FAQ Q. Can you clarify how The Leaders of the Pack works with regards to psychic powers? (p81)
A. No number of Rune Priests may share the exact same two psychic powers. For example, a Rune Priest may choose to take Living Lightning and Thunderclap. A second Rune Priest may then choose to take Living Lighting and Jaws of the World Wolf, as he will not have the same two psychic powers as the first Rune Priest. Note that the restriction on weapons and wargear still applies, so you have to have each Rune Priest with a unique wargear selection.

You couldn't have been more off.

Hmm, thought it was cumulative. My bad.

Of course a Boltgun is free for a Rune Priest. . .

Mywik wrote:But im happy. I didnt lose because the list was inferior but because i did some mistakes. I like the list and will certainly play it next week too.

Good! Don't let defeat get you down. There is always an adjustment period when trying a new list. Heck, it took me half a dozen games to learn to use TWC correctly. I thought they were overpriced for what they did until I started using them correctly.

But why did you change lists?

Mywik wrote:I noticed that since i stayed on range against the DE the melta wasnt of much use. So im thinking about getting a plasma gun in one of the gh squad because of the 24 inches s7 instead of firing a bolter shot because you know you are more than 12 inches away. The only way to accomplish that in that list is either dropping the choser on the LL/MH-Priest (but i liked having BF5 on him ) or dropping both melta for a flamer and a plasma but im afraid im losing some punch if i face more av 12-13 vehicles like necrons or imps.

Plasma and other S7 weapons are great against AV 10-12. It can handle small amounts of AV 13 in a pinch, but you should be looking at higher strength weapons (read: Melta) for AV 13/14.

Also, Grey Hunters are not your primary anti-vehicle. Melta and Plasma are opportunity weapons. Your Long Fangs are the ones with the range to be a constant threat. That said, you can move your Rhino 12", Disembark 2", and have a 6" Melta range (12" for S8). That actually gives you a 26" (20" Melta) range, though you have to expose yourself.

If the Dark Eldar player is staying in his own weapon range, you can get close enough to pop him. Though you'd want to be bringing the Wolf Guard so you can use their Combi-Meltas as well. Bad luck would be the only reason you could miss with all of them. 1-2 S8 AP1 hits will wreck them. Especially if you are in the 20" Melta range.

Mywik wrote:The scouts were performing okay. In the first game they came in when everything was done (2 gh squads and 2 runepriests already wiped out ) and in the second game they did exactly what they are supposed to. Walked in from where i needed them and meltad down the Archon+incubi transport and effectively cancelled them out that way because they had to footslog from nomansland to me from that point on. So im kinda undecided if i keep them or not. Any suggestions what i could drop them for?

Do you only play against that Blood Angel player and that Dark Eldar player? Personally I'd keep them. Being able to harass someone's back line is useful against most armies. And if you are going first you can always Infiltrate them within 18" of the enemy, Scout move 6', then move 6" and be in range to fire the Meltagun on turn 1. Won't be in Melta range (the Scout move requires you be more than 12" away from the enemy) but hey, free shot.

If you do drop them, I'd suggest a TLLC Razorback for the Long Fangs. But I'd rather have the forward projection that the Scouts bring. Then again, I also kit my Scouts differently.

cowmonaut wrote:
Good! Don't let defeat get you down. There is always an adjustment period when trying a new list. Heck, it took me half a dozen games to learn to use TWC correctly. I thought they were overpriced for what they did until I started using them correctly.

But why did you change lists?

Nothing lets me go down! . I didnt actually change lists. Until the last two month we didnt have that much people in our gc. We mostly played apoc 2v2 games with 1500 or more per player. Naturally fine tuning your list wasnt that necessary nor interesting in such a setting. That changed radically when we started advertising it on the internet and we now have a solid player base of 10-15 active players with several armies. Since there were some newer players that wanted to first learn to play with smaller armies we decided to make the 750s our standard go-to game size and play more 1v1. Before i played a list a single time and played a totally different one a week later but the given situation now makes it appealing to make a relatively set in stone list that is able to take whatever there comes without tailoring for one opponent or the other.

cowmonaut wrote:
Plasma and other S7 weapons are great against AV 10-12. It can handle small amounts of AV 13 in a pinch, but you should be looking at higher strength weapons (read: Melta) for AV 13/14.

Also, Grey Hunters are not your primary anti-vehicle. Melta and Plasma are opportunity weapons. Your Long Fangs are the ones with the range to be a constant threat. That said, you can move your Rhino 12", Disembark 2", and have a 6" Melta range (12" for S8). That actually gives you a 26" (20" Melta) range, though you have to expose yourself.

If the Dark Eldar player is staying in his own weapon range, you can get close enough to pop him. Though you'd want to be bringing the Wolf Guard so you can use their Combi-Meltas as well. Bad luck would be the only reason you could miss with all of them. 1-2 S8 AP1 hits will wreck them. Especially if you are in the 20" Melta range.

In most games thats also the reason why my long fangs are some kind of primary target for my opponents thats why they typically are shred after their second shooting phase or down to one man. In the game against the dark eldar a s7 shot on a 24 inch range wouldve been a game changer in the late game while the melta was useless. But i guess thats something i have to live with in order to handle different armies.

cowmonaut wrote:Do you only play against that Blood Angel player and that Dark Eldar player? Personally I'd keep them. Being able to harass someone's back line is useful against most armies. And if you are going first you can always Infiltrate them within 18" of the enemy, Scout move 6', then move 6" and be in range to fire the Meltagun on turn 1. Won't be in Melta range (the Scout move requires you be more than 12" away from the enemy) but hey, free shot.

If you do drop them, I'd suggest a TLLC Razorback for the Long Fangs. But I'd rather have the forward projection that the Scouts bring. Then again, I also kit my Scouts differently.

No, i have to face alot of different armies. Every available army + a traitor guard fandex army and excluding necrons and GK (but since our gc is expanding each week right now i think i have to count them in too). I think i keep them at least for a few weeks to see how they perform in other games. How do you fit out your scouts?
For alternatives im looking at a AC/HB Predator which comes out at 85 points too which provides some anti infantry and anti light tank fire and can stay at a relatively safe range and be a long range soaker (in order to protect the long fangs and rhinos) as well as speeding up late game and contest. (something i lack in objective games i can hold two objectives but except the scouts which are very fragile i dont have anything to contest) or getting a HF/MM Landspeeder and a choser and meltabombs for the second rune priest (although a lasplasback looks appealing too especially when thinking about the deathwing army that was annihilating me last week. I would prefer that over a TLLC one)

Thanks a lot for your input

*************** 1 HQ ***************

Runepriest
- Bolter
- Choser
- LL
- JOTWW
- - - > 110 P

Runepriest
- Choser
- LL
- MHurricane
- - - > 110 P



*************** 2 Standard ***************

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- Standart
- Motw
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P

GH
7 GH
- Melta
- Standart
- Motw
+ - Rhino
- - - > 170 P



*************** 1 HS ***************

LF
5 LF
- 4 x ML
+ - Razorback
- Las/plas
- - - > 190 P


Overall : 750


This is the list i will try out this week. I swapped the scouts for the razorback mainly because i needed an additional target for my opponent as well as some mid-low range high ap shots. The Razorback fits this spot perfectly while the scouts were too risky to not show up when/where i need them.

So back again from another evening of space wolves 750 points action.

I like the list now. Except the fact that the two squads could have some more cc punch but on that point level you just cant have everything.

I played against Eldar, Space Marines and Dark Eldar. Won against the Space Marines and Dark eldar had a draw against eldar. The razoarback did exactly what he should. Getting shot at and buy the long fangs some time that way.

The space marine player did several mistakes but the eldar player had a devastating list and won all other games he did that evening so a draw was kind of a success for me.