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Hey I'm just wondering what the story is with competitive playing at tournament level and proxying.

Is this usually not allowed? And if so what about models converted to look like other models?

For example, I'm looking to pick up rhinos on ebay for my guards to use as chimeras, as they are much cheaper than actually chimera models. If I convert them by sticking a turret on the front or what not can they be used in this way?

Thanks guys

As far as I'm aware (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) no proxying is allowed in tournaments, everything has to be WYSIWYG. So your Rhino/Chimera deal would most likely not be allowed. Its different if the model you are using in your army has no GW model available for it, such as the Tervigon before the recent plastic kit was released. But using one model to represent another model that actually has an available kit isn't going to fly. If you want a Chimera you're going to have to buy one if you want to go competitive.

Different story at your local gaming store, personally I wouldn't mind what my opponent used model wise so long as I know what it is meant to be. Best to check in with the store and regular players though to make sure they are cool with it.

LynxSarnage wrote:As far as I'm aware (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) no proxying is allowed in tournaments, everything has to be WYSIWYG. So your Rhino/Chimera deal would most likely not be allowed. Its different if the model you are using in your army has no GW model available for it, such as the Tervigon before the recent plastic kit was released. But using one model to represent another model that actually has an available kit isn't going to fly. If you want a Chimera you're going to have to buy one if you want to go competitive.

Different story at your local gaming store, personally I wouldn't mind what my opponent used model wise so long as I know what it is meant to be. Best to check in with the store and regular players though to make sure they are cool with it.

Thanks man, I suppose all of the above makes sense, as if you're gonna play against other serious players, you need to be able to tell.
I guess Ill give the tournaments a few misses but ill have to at least mildly proxy, given my severe lack of money at the moment

In tournaments I have seen, proxy's are allowed, as long as the model has the same dimensions and looks plausible for the model its representing and uses wysiwyg .

Chimeras and Rhino's look compleatly different, and have different stats.

no you couldnt do this in a tournament.

For "conversions" and "counts as", Rule of Cool ususally applies, even in tournaments (at least, all I've been to, which includes a few GTs, and about to go to Adepticon with a fully converted army).

However, it's got to be crystal clear what each model/conversion represents.

If you're just doing something to save money, and it's more of a proxy (i.e. stand-in) then it's much less likely to fly, than if you put a lot of effort into it and make it really obvious what it is.

These things get mixed up in the discussion all the time, but there's a pretty big difference and on the table you usually "know it when you see it".

Counts As you can often get away with just fine, as long as proportions and gun / hatch placements are accurate. Giant or tiny Chimeras are a no, as are even beautifully converted Chimeras with their fire points shunted to the front, or their gun barrels made extra long, etc.

Counting one GW in-system model as another is almost always, however, not ok. Rhinos don't have any material similarities to Chimeras (guns, hatches, disembarkation dimensions, etc. etc. etc.), and so they're a pretty big no on counts as.

In general, proxy = no, counts as = maybe.

to RiTides point, Rule of Cool also does tend to apply, in the sense that while a BRILLIANTLY converted but proportionally/positionally "wrong" model may be ruled to play differently, and more akin to its "Base" WYSIWYG "should be" ... it'll certainly be allowed to be played with.

Chimeras are old and plentiful. You should try to eBay some and clean them up. You could also papercraft some. Rhinos as. Chimeras won't fly inmost situations. Get some tank tread kits and scratch build some, if you lack the money then you can spend extra effort to make the model.