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For the benefit of guys down at FLGS..

If a Cryptek joins a unit of 10 warriors and due to casualties becomes the last figure in squad, can a Ghost Ark repair d3 warriors for that squad?

The RAW say yes, but it's in "grey" area of not having actual warriors left. The Cryptek is still part of unit and scoring, too.

When the council debated it for the INAT FAQ, it was decided that Crypteks or Lords do count, based on the precedent set by Space Wolf Wolf Guard in their FAQ; that they work the same way and thus count as a member of that unit for ALL purposes. Attached ICs will not count, of course.

The council has spoken.

Thanks

Oh, sweet. I would have thought the opposite!

We use the FAQ so I'll be using this to my advantage in the future, but I think it goes against the RAI, and spirit of similar rules like Resurrection Protocols, which clearly state that attached characters are not sufficient to resurrect the squad. Personally I think both rules should work like the INAT FAQ on Ghost Arks but RAW disagrees.

Though for the RP it specifies it doesn't work, where they didnt make the same statement for the Ghost arks repair ability, so it may very well be RAI.

TheAvengingKnee wrote:Though for the RP it specifies it doesn't work, where they didnt make the same statement for the Ghost arks repair ability, so it may very well be RAI.

A cryptek that joins a unit of deathmarks is still considered part of the unit of deathmarks if its the last remaining member. It still gets to wound on a 2+ against marked units.
So a cryptek can be the last remaining member of the unit of warriors.

RP rules specifically state that if the cryptek is the only member left standing, you lose all RP counters. Its a bit counter intuitive.

So your unit of 10 warriors + cryptek is shot to pieces and all but the cryptek dies. You get no RP rolls, but next turn the GH can bring back 1-3 warriors.

Just be aware that if you do this in friendly games, and your opponent doesn't already know the details of how this works, you may come across as TFG. It helps if you make sure he knows he has to take down the cryptek too to stop them from being repaired.

I have a question, the Repair barge rule states you cannot bring a squad above it's starting size. What determines a squad's starting size? The size of the squad after deployment(Start of the game if you will) or what you have down on your army list?

Voodoo_Chile wrote:I have a question, the Repair barge rule states you cannot bring a squad above it's starting size. What determines a squad's starting size? The size of the squad after deployment(Start of the game if you will) or what you have down on your army list?

There shouldn't be a difference in the size in your army list and what you deploy, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying?

He means that by adding the cryptek, the unit size changes by 1 from that on the army list.

This is a good question. Can a unit with 10 warriors and 1 cryptek be repaired to 11 warriors? Does the Repair Barge add crypteks? "Models" is very generic...

TheAvengingKnee wrote:

Voodoo_Chile wrote:I have a question, the Repair barge rule states you cannot bring a squad above it's starting size. What determines a squad's starting size? The size of the squad after deployment(Start of the game if you will) or what you have down on your army list?

There shouldn't be a difference in the size in your army list and what you deploy, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying?

Well from the Army List, the starting size of the squad is say 10 Warriors and I have a Royal Court of 1xCryptek.

On deployment, I have a 11 model squad of 10 Warriors and a Cryptek.

Now for the purposes of Repair barge, the squad size on paper is 10 and the size on deployment is 11, which of these two is considered the "starting size"? If I lose the Cryptek and a warrior for instance, Do I have the option to bring back both or only one?

copper.talos wrote:He means that by adding the cryptek, the unit size changes by 1 from that on the army list.

This is a good question. Can a unit with 10 warriors and 1 cryptek be repaired to 11 warriors? Does the Repair Barge add crypteks? "Models" is very generic...

This is even more important. If the cryptek dies, can the GA bring it back? Some would say yes.

Nemesor Dave wrote:

copper.talos wrote:He means that by adding the cryptek, the unit size changes by 1 from that on the army list.

This is a good question. Can a unit with 10 warriors and 1 cryptek be repaired to 11 warriors? Does the Repair Barge add crypteks? "Models" is very generic...

This is even more important. If the cryptek dies, can the GA bring it back? Some would say yes.

And another question, if a squad of warriors and a Cryptek are killed (CC or otherwise) and the squad is wiped out(Say the Cryptek dies from wounds and the squad is Swept) and the Cryptek makes his Everliving roll.
Can you begin repairing Warriors using the Arks next turn? It would seem that for 115 points you're essentially removing the major drawback of RP and that seems a little too powerful or not intended in my opinion.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

copper.talos wrote:He means that by adding the cryptek, the unit size changes by 1 from that on the army list.

This is a good question. Can a unit with 10 warriors and 1 cryptek be repaired to 11 warriors? Does the Repair Barge add crypteks? "Models" is very generic...

This is even more important. If the cryptek dies, can the GA bring it back? Some would say yes.

And another question, if a squad of warriors and a Cryptek are killed (CC or otherwise) and the squad is wiped out(Say the Cryptek dies from wounds and the squad is Swept) and the Cryptek makes his Everliving roll.
Can you begin repairing Warriors using the Arks next turn? It would seem that for 115 points you're essentially removing the major drawback of RP and that seems a little too powerful or not intended in my opinion.

It would be interesting if there was a way to exploit this, however getting shot to pieces has yet to prove to be a viable strategy for me.

Not to mention that ghost arks explode on turn 1. I think that if my Ghost Ark doesn't explode after 2 hits it will just self destruct...

Nemesor Dave wrote:
It would be interesting if there was a way to exploit this, however getting shot to pieces has yet to prove to be a viable strategy for me.

It seems to be my only strategy, doesn't work but makes for some good stories

But if you think about it, you have a blob of 20 warriors with a Cryptek and Lord attached and two Ghost Arks backing it up. (So the majority of your forces) Say your blob is assaulted and wiped out and one of your RCs makes his everliving roll(say you assigned a wound or two to him in combat to force the Ever-living roll).On the next Movement phase you restore 2D3 models so potentially you've brought back the other Royal Court member and 5 warriors.

Now in fairness that entire scenario is about 600-700pts worth to pull off

"the squad is Swept) and the Cryptek makes his Everliving roll. "

Which he cannot do, because this is attempting to save the unit and SA specifies that this isnt possible unless your special rule (RP/EL) specifically allows it - which it doesnt, because EL/RP do not mention SA.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

copper.talos wrote:He means that by adding the cryptek, the unit size changes by 1 from that on the army list.

This is a good question. Can a unit with 10 warriors and 1 cryptek be repaired to 11 warriors? Does the Repair Barge add crypteks? "Models" is very generic...

This is even more important. If the cryptek dies, can the GA bring it back? Some would say yes.

And another question, if a squad of warriors and a Cryptek are killed (CC or otherwise) and the squad is wiped out(Say the Cryptek dies from wounds and the squad is Swept) and the Cryptek makes his Everliving roll.
Can you begin repairing Warriors using the Arks next turn? It would seem that for 115 points you're essentially removing the major drawback of RP and that seems a little too powerful or not intended in my opinion.

Once the Squad is swept you have to remove all Ever Living and Reanimation Tokens, so there is no loophole there.

Mannahnin wrote:When the council debated it for the INAT FAQ, it was decided that Crypteks or Lords do count, based on the precedent set by Space Wolf Wolf Guard in their FAQ; that they work the same way and thus count as a member of that unit for ALL purposes. Attached ICs will not count, of course.

Why don't ICs count? As long as the IC hasn't had a movement phase, he's still part of the unit of warriors, so the unit can still be chosen for repairs.

Nemesor Dave wrote:This is even more important. If the cryptek dies, can the GA bring it back? Some would say yes.

It depends on how you read the word "models". I think the logical assumption is that they mean "Necron warriors". If it doesn't mean that, then why add a cryptek and not Draigo or a Land Raider or a Titan?

NecronLord3 wrote:

Voodoo_Chile wrote:

Nemesor Dave wrote:

copper.talos wrote:He means that by adding the cryptek, the unit size changes by 1 from that on the army list.

This is a good question. Can a unit with 10 warriors and 1 cryptek be repaired to 11 warriors? Does the Repair Barge add crypteks? "Models" is very generic...

This is even more important. If the cryptek dies, can the GA bring it back? Some would say yes.

And another question, if a squad of warriors and a Cryptek are killed (CC or otherwise) and the squad is wiped out(Say the Cryptek dies from wounds and the squad is Swept) and the Cryptek makes his Everliving roll.
Can you begin repairing Warriors using the Arks next turn? It would seem that for 115 points you're essentially removing the major drawback of RP and that seems a little too powerful or not intended in my opinion.

Once the Squad is swept you have to remove all Ever Living and Reanimation Tokens, so there is no loophole there.

Why though? A model removed by a Sweeping Advace isn't allowed to place an Ever Living token, but if it was removed as a casualty in the previous combat the Ever-Living token gets placed (before combat resolution and the sweeping advance) and unless I am missing some major caveat I don't see why the token would be removed if the squad was swept away.

Voodoo_Chile wrote:Why though? A model removed by a Sweeping Advace isn't allowed to place an Ever Living token, but if it was removed as a casualty in the previous combat the Ever-Living token gets placed (before combat resolution and the sweeping advance) and unless I am missing some major caveat I don't see why the token would be removed if the squad was swept away.

There was a huge thread debating this that iirc got locked. You should find it and read through it to form an opinion.

rigeld2 wrote:

Voodoo_Chile wrote:Why though? A model removed by a Sweeping Advace isn't allowed to place an Ever Living token, but if it was removed as a casualty in the previous combat the Ever-Living token gets placed (before combat resolution and the sweeping advance) and unless I am missing some major caveat I don't see why the token would be removed if the squad was swept away.

There was a huge thread debating this that iirc got locked. You should find it and read through it to form an opinion.

Ah my apologies, never read that. Dear god that's a can of worms I don't intend to get into.

Grakmar wrote:

Mannahnin wrote:When the council debated it for the INAT FAQ, it was decided that Crypteks or Lords do count, based on the precedent set by Space Wolf Wolf Guard in their FAQ; that they work the same way and thus count as a member of that unit for ALL purposes. Attached ICs will not count, of course.

Why don't ICs count? As long as the IC hasn't had a movement phase, he's still part of the unit of warriors, so the unit can still be chosen for repairs.

Uh, what? No, IC's are attached to the unit, they are NOT considered to be part of the warrior squad in the sense of actually being a member of the unit. The cryptek/lords are upgrade characters that, when allocated to the unit, take on the same properties and benefits from the rules of the squad. That is why crypteks with deathmarks are so deadly, but an IC with deathmarks is just his standard self.