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Hi all, new to orks and certain tactics. I have seen burna wagons being written left right and centre and not 100% what it is about. I obviously know its burnas in a battlewagon lol but is it useful and effective? does it always have to be in a wagon or are trucks effect? I understand trucks will be less useful with AV10. Anyone love these burna wagons or are they not worth it?

Thanks in advance

ATO

Burna wagons are freaking awesome! I run one in every ork list I take and they will 1 shot wipe just about any unit on the board.

Knowing that your opponent will obviously make this wagon priority number 1. You have to present him with other equally threatening targets for his anti tank weapons. I run a 3 wagon list consisting of my burna wagon, Nobz and boss wagon, and 18x shoota w PK nob and KFF mek.

Now the opponent really has to decide where to aim those anti tank weapons he has. All of those wagons need to go down in 2 turns...max. Hes gonna have to make some serious choices.

Trukks I dont think will work very well as your opponent knows or is going to quickly find out how devastating burna wagons can be. The trukk is an AV 10 vehicle...which is nothing. The wagon is an AV 12 vehicle (yes yes yes i know its AV 14 in front but those sides are just soooo damn big and easy to manuver to best to plan on them being shot) so its quite a bit more difficult to destroy and immune to small arms fire (where as the trukk is still quite vulnerable to small arms fire say bolters). Your extra speed on the trukk is negated by the fact that your KFF mek should be in a wagon (for max effectivness) so the trukk cant go faster than the wagon and keep the only armor it has (the KFF).

In summary they are very worth it! You just have to know how to play it and make sure its properly supported by the other boyz in your army. Dont expect it to win games for you...as I said once its power is known it gets shot alot and quickly. You will probably only get 1 max 2 kills w it per game...so make them count!

EDIT to add: I also run 2 or 3 trukks and a squad of rokkit trakks...armor saturation is important to making sure your opponent has difficult choices to make.

Thanks for that advice. Just to clarify can the burnas stay in the wagon and shoot? How many burnas do you tend to run in a squad?

ATO

Yes they can stay in the wagon and shoot this is what makes them so damn good. 10 to 15 auto hits per guy covered by your template is what makes this unit so scary.

I usually run 10 just due to points but you cant go wrong at 10 to 15...15 being best if you can afford them.

In have a deep and pyromaniacal love for burnawagons.

In a wagon i run 15 burnas plus a KFF mek.

In a trukk it's 11 + KFF mek or 12 depending on my list.

The Trukk is a bit vulnerable, and a explosion will likely kill most of your burnas, but it can get into position FAST, and fire the next turn. People often forget that burnas are in the trukk, as they can't start in it (mine jack a boyz mob one, usualy) and they aren't always paying attention when you say you're embarking them. It's risky, but it can pay off if they move up a unit to take care of that easy KP trukkerboyz unit, and get to make hundreds of saves instead

The Battlewagon is more survivable, but people will be expecting it to be carrying a nasty short-ranged unit, and will either shoot the crud out of it from range or avoid it (especially if it has a deffrolla...).

Both options work, especially if Orks aren't common in your scene. I've found certain armies instill a false sense of non-flammability in their owners:

Them: 'You can't hurt me. It's only AP 5 and you have what, 15 guys? My 2+ armour will shrug all that, and then you're getting thunderhammered (or equivilent).

You: 'Make 75 (approx..assuming average wounds) saves for those 10 guys caught in those 15 overlapping flamer templates...

Them: what the...


The burny-dance is fun

I have a question then. Is the battle wagon supposed to be equiped with the deff rolla or not?

Yes, as tank-shocking or ramming 6" or less does not prevent passengers from shooting.
So it's possible to ram a transport and then flame the contents.

wowsmash wrote:I have a question then. Is the battle wagon supposed to be equiped with the deff rolla or not?

There is no point to I think.

1) There is no way the 15 template flamers will not wipe any infantry out.
2) Because the enemy will try everything they can to take the BWagon out , adding extra points to it is just a waste to inevitable death.

It sounds awesome curently have few points so am tempted to try out the burna truck, i mostly play against nids, dark eldar and eldar so AP5 isnt too shabby lol and ignores cover so even better. WIth both if the transport moves flat out can the burnas still shoot? really want some bburnas now lol

ATO

Burnaz can not get a trukk by themselves. In order to get a trukk for your burnaz, you would have to buy a unit of 10-12 boyz, buy them a trukk and then embark on it during turn one.

Even if you ignore the problems of your enemy going first and potentially simply blowing up the burnaz and/or trukk before you get anywhere, it's also more expensive than simply getting a battlewagon, as those 12 boyz are going to be useless, no matter their upgrades.

Burnaz can only shoot out of a vehicle (Trukk or Battlewagon) that's gone 6" (7" w/ red paint) so you have to get into position on the 1st turn and then burn the 2nd.

I like deffrollaz on battlewagons, even in this configuration, because you have to get a lot of armies out of their vehicles in order to burn them to death. Deffrollaz are one of the better anti-tank options in the ork codex.

Not sure i agree w/ the fact that ramming vehicles can still have passengers shoot as they are said to be moving "at the highest speed it is capable of" (pg 69)

either way, it's hard to go wrong w/ a battlewagon w/ a deffrolla full of burnaz.

chelsea_hollywood wrote:Not sure i agree w/ the fact that ramming vehicles can still have passengers shoot as they are said to be moving "at the highest speed it is capable of" (pg 69)

You have to move as far as possible, if you move more than 6" (7" with RPJ) for whatever reason(vehicle explodes, was too far away in the first place), you can't shot, of course. If as far as possible is less than 6"/7", nothing prevents your passengers from shooting.

You have to move as far as possible, if you move more than 6" (7" with RPJ) for whatever reason(vehicle explodes, was too far away in the first place), you can't shot, of course. If as far as possible is less than 6"/7", nothing prevents your passengers from shooting.

On a related note, I think it's always a good idea to resolve the deff-rolla hits before you move the battlewagon.

E.g. if you deff-rolla a vehicle and don't explode it, you can then measure the distance to the vehicle and if it's less than
6" / 7" you can point it out to your opponent, "I move 5" so I can still fire my burnas".

Just thought I'd mention cos I've had a few people call me on whether I moved over 7" when ramming because I wasn't
being this clear with my ram move.

You always have to resolve the ram first, so you have to measure the distance to the vehicle anyways. From the FAQ you can tell that Death or Glory(and thus, the ram) happens before any death-rolla hits are resolved.

Thanks for all the posts, the defrolla seems like a sweet idea hopefully busting a transport and then flaming the survivors. Nice point about the having to move max distance. I guess the only thing you can do is get close enough so you can only move less than 7 inches. A side note what is the deal with the deffrolla and troops. When you tank shock troops if they fail their leadership do they take strength 10 hits?

ATO

The take 1d6 S10 hits even if the pass their leadership, no escape from the huge spiky steamroller. If they then try to death or glory they even take 2d6 hits instead.

If you don't take the Deffrolla, Always take the Reinforced Ram instead. Nothing like getting immobilized on that 1 and not being able to re-roll it (which both Deffrollas and Rams do).

Another option that no-one ever seems to mention is the Looted Wagon. It's the price of a Trukk, with AV12 and the option to take its own Skorcha, and all the same upgrades. Yes, it's not as survivable as a Battlewagon, and yes it takes up the BW's Heavy Support slot, but it's cheaper, yet more survivable (and easier to get - no 12/10 Boyz mob required), and still Open Topped. Just something to think about.

My only issue with the LW is that it takes a valuable HS slot, but i use them as burna transports sometimes nonetheless, especially in smaller games where points are limited.

They have an annoying habit of getting the cruise control stuck once in a while, but it's rarely been that much of an issue..

Well the deff rolla sseems a sure fire hit, i mean tank shocking infantry and tanks left right and centre and havng a ton of burnas inside sounds even better. I am not sure about the looted wagon they dont appeal to me as much as battlewagons or trucks imo. but what do i know i have 500pts and now battle experience with them lol!

ATO

Deffrollas are the #1 best upgrade in the dex, ahnds down.

It's a shame you can only fit them to battelwagons though. I'd love to be able to run a deffrolla buggy squadron

Nob is to powerklaw as Deffrolla is to battlewagon.

Wrong way around.

Nob is to Powerklaw as Battlewagon is to Deffrolla.

Anvildude wrote:If you don't take the Deffrolla, Always take the Reinforced Ram instead. Nothing like getting immobilized on that 1 and not being able to re-roll it (which both Deffrollas and Rams do).

Another option that no-one ever seems to mention is the Looted Wagon. It's the price of a Trukk, with AV12 and the option to take its own Skorcha, and all the same upgrades. Yes, it's not as survivable as a Battlewagon, and yes it takes up the BW's Heavy Support slot, but it's cheaper, yet more survivable (and easier to get - no 12/10 Boyz mob required), and still Open Topped. Just something to think about.

No one ever mentions them because they are terrible. You did a nice job naming the two upsides and ignoring most of the down sides.

Looted Wagon vs Trukks
+ AV11/11/10 (not 12!)
+ Option for a useful weapon (Skorcha)
o same transport capacity
- takes up heavy support slot
- not fast
- more expensive
- don't push dat

Looted wagon vs battlewagon
+ cheaper
o comparable firepower on the move
- less transport capacity
- AV 11/11/10
- less transport capacity
- no deff rolla
- don't push dat

So either way, the negative outweigh the positive sides of the looted wagon by a large margin. Before you try to cram 12 burnaz into a list that can't even afford a battlewagon to transport them, maybe you should look for alternatives, like six skorcha-wartrakks.

@Jidmah - that is a good point, cost wise they are pretty expensive, i was trying to fit 8 burnas in a wagon in a 750 points list. i guess i was looking for something to take the heat off my big group of boys!

I don't believe Looted Wagons are more expensive than Trukks... They're both ten points under the cost of a Battlewagon, aren't they? (without upgrades).

And yeah, oops on the armour.

And you listed "less transport capacity' twice in your BW compare list.

BW are significantly more costly than Looted wagons or trukks iirc (no dex on hand at work :about 2.5 times the cost, base?), but are by far the best vehicle Orks have.

Trukks and Looted wagons have similar base costs, but LW have more spendy options (like the Boom gun ) and armour, at the cost of DPT.

I find LW's to be fun to use, but not really worth their points in a points comparison for effectiveness.

Battlewagons are 90pts base, Trukks 35, Looted Wagons 35 as well but it doesn't come with any guns, while the Trukk has a Big Shoota by default and is fast. The Looted Wagon is a tank so it can tank shock without the reinforced ram upgrade.

Yer LW sounds fun and i know consistency and orks dont go well together but I wouldnt mind having as much consistency as I could lol! I think BW is worth the extra points chuck a deffrolla on it and some burnas inside and you got yourself an expensive but fun tough unit!

ATO

Burna Wagons are fun to use! There's nothing better than opening up a army case box and pull out 3 Battle Wagons, 2 KFF Big Meks and 45 Burna Boyz before pulling out the rest of your greenskins and watching your opponent's face turn to distaster as try realize they're 80-90% infantry with little to no anti-tank power. Orks have the best pair-ups for vehicles and troops IMO.

Anvildude wrote:I don't believe Looted Wagons are more expensive than Trukks... They're both ten points under the cost of a Battlewagon, aren't they? (without upgrades).

And yeah, oops on the armour.

And you listed "less transport capacity' twice in your BW compare list.

Yeah, less transport capacity is that bad.
(no seriously, just copy+past error )

I assume that you would never want to field your looted wagon without a skorcha, just like you would never field a trukk without a reinforced ram. Thus it is more expensive.