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With the release of the latest edition of Flames of War I’ve decided to jump back into the game. I’ve decided to start with a Tank Company as that seems to be the general consensus as the army to start with (the Space Marines of FoW? ). Anyway, I’ve put together three late war British lists. Two are for units that I’m interested in historically (3RTR and Grenadier Guards). These two lists are actually quite similar with only a few differences due to points costs, available units, etc. The third list (Irish Guards) I’ve put together due to some of the more unusual units they can take. As always comments, criticism and “historical corrections” are welcome.

3rd Royal Tank Regiment
Tank Company

Armoured Squadron HQ
Company HQ w/ 3 Sherman V Tanks (one outfitted with .50 cal AA MG) @ 265 Pts

Armoured Platoon
Armoured Platoon w/ 3 Sherman V and 1 Firefly VC Tanks @ 365 Pts

Armoured Platoon
Armoured Platoon w/ 3 Sherman V and 1 Firefly VC Tanks @ 365 Pts

Recce Patrol
Recce Patrol w/ 3 Stuart V Jalopies @ 130 Pts

Motor Platoon
Motor Platoon w/ 3 Motor Squads @ 155 Pts

Motor Platoon
Motor Platoon w/ 3 Motor Squads @ 155 Pts

Field Battery (SP) Royal Artillery
Field Battery (SP) Royal Artillery w/ 1 Gun Troops (4 Sextons, two outfitted with .50 cal AA MGs), Jeep and 15 cwt Trucks @ 290 Pts

Air Observation Post
Air Observation Post w/ 1 Auster AOP @ 25 Pts

Grand Total: 1,750 points

Grenadier Guards
Tank Company

Guards Armoured Squadron HQ
Company HQ w/ 2 Sherman V Tanks @ 185 Pts

Guards Armoured Platoon
Guards Armoured Platoon w/ 3 Sherman V and 1 Firefly VC Tanks @ 375 Pts

Guards Armoured Platoon
Guards Armoured Platoon w/ 3 Sherman V and 1 Firefly VC Tanks @ 375 Pts

Guards Recce Patrol
Guards Recce Patrol w/ 3 Stuart VI Light Tanks@ 165 Pts

Guards Motor Platoon
Guards Motor Platoon w/ 3 Motor Squads @ 165 Pts

Guards Motor Platoon
Guards Motor Platoon w/ 3 Motor Squads @ 165 Pts

Field Battery (SP) Royal Artillery
Field Battery (SP) Royal Artillery w/ 1 Gun Troops (4 Sextons, two outfitted with .50 cal AA MGs), captured Sd Kfz 251/1 half-track and 15 cwt Trucks @ 295 Pts

Air Observation Post
Air Observation Post w/ 1 Auster AOP @ 25 Pts

Grand Total: 1,750 points

The Grenadier Guards and 3RTR are the two tank units that I feel have the most interesting histories. The Grenadier Guards being one of the oldest units and 3RTR for being in practically every theater that the UK was in during World War II.

While the two forces are quite similar, right now I’m leaning towards the Guards force for a few reasons. First of all, I just don’t care for the look of the Stuart jalopies (it’s that big blank hole in the top of the Stuart that makes it look incomplete). I would also have to either purchase a third Armoured Platoon box or use a plain Sherman with no stowage in one of the platoons (I’m using SU884 for my Sherman OP). Finally I always wonder if I’m taking the appropriate “historically correct” choice when I put together a force. I always wonder if a force should be supported by a Motor Platoon or a Rifle Platoon, Sextons or 25 pdrs. I don’t have to worry about that with the Guards force (I hope!) since they only have Motor Platoons and Sextons available (and I already have three Sextons and three half-tracks…).

As for the forces, they look fairly balanced to my untrained eye (maybe too balanced?) except for the lack of AA. One change I have considered was moving the AA MGs from the Sextons to the Motor Platoons (one each). The thought was that this would give the platoons a little extra punch before the transports are sent to the rear. Of course this does leave the Sextons a little more vulnerable to air attacks.

Irish Guards
Tank Company

Lieutenant Colonel J.O.E. Vandeleur, DSO & BAR
Lieutenant Colonel J.O.E. Vandeleur w/ Humber Scout Car and RAF Forward Air Controller @ 60 Pts

Guards Armoured Squadron HQ
Company HQ w/ 2 Sherman V Tanks (outfitted with .50 cal AA MGs) and Sherman ARV Recovery Vehicle @ 205 Pts

Guards Armoured Platoon
Guards Armoured Platoon w/ 3 Sherman V (one outfitted with .50 cal AA MG) and 1 Firefly VC Tanks @ 380 Pts

Guards Armoured Platoon
Guards Armoured Platoon w/ 3 Sherman V (one outfitted with .50 cal AA MG) and 1 Firefly VC Tanks @ 380 Pts

Guards Recce Patrol
Guards Recce Patrol w/ 4 Stuart VI Light Tanks (one outfitted with .50 cal AA MG) @ 215 Pts

Guards Rifle Platoon
Guards Rifle Platoon w/ 3 Rifle Squads and Transport Squad @ 190 Pts

Guards Column Platoon
Guards Column Platoon @ 100 Pts

Air Support
Priority Air Support @ 220 Pts

Grand Total: 1,750 points

While I don’t really know much of the history of the Irish Guards, what interested me in this force were the different options that Lt. Colonel Vandeleur, the RAF Forward Air Controller and the Guards Column Platoon bring to the game.

Thought you might like a bit of background on the Irish Guards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Guards

The Guards Division is an administrative unit of the British Army responsible for the administration of the regiments of Foot Guards and the London Regiment.
It comprises of the following Regiments, each with differing Traditions and history.

Grenadier Guards (formed 1656)
Coldstream Guards (formed 1650)
Scots Guards (1642-1651, reformed 1661)
Irish Guards (formed 1900 April fools day no less!)
Welsh Guards (formed 1915)

So as you can see Grenadier and other Guards get very touchy about their Linage especially as the Grenadiers look at themselves as the "Old Guard" and the taff as "upstarts". The Irish are newcomers like the Welsh.

OT I think all of your lists are good, just need to look to see if you can squeeze in some AAA in there somewhere?

I really dig the Grenadier Guards list. Mwnciboo stated my only really beef, you need some AAA in one of those lists.

The Guards Armoured Division was created in 1941, so despite the venerable histories of many of its various component units, it was quite a new division, and the various Guards units (which had been infantry) converted to armour when it was created. It didn't see action until 1944. British unit descriptions can be quite confusing, partly because of the different uses of the term 'regiment'.

'Grenadier Guards' would presumably be 2nd Armoured Battalion, Grenadier Guards ('the Boneshakers'), part of the 5th Guards Armoured Brigade (like other British armoured divisions, by 1944 Guards Armoured only had 1 armoured brigade). 'Irish Guards' would be 2nd Armoured Battalion, Irish Guards ('The Micks' or 'The Bog Rats'), one of the other 2 regiments in this brigade. The 3rd regiment was 1st Armoured Battalion, Coldstream Guards ('The Coldstreamers' or "The Coleys'). There was also 1st Motor Battalion Grenadier Guards, and the 2nd Welsh Guards Armoured Reconnaisance Regiment (The Taffy's' or 'The Daffy Taffs'). 2nd Grenadier Guards were the senior regiment, followed by 1st Coldstream Guards and 2nd Irish Guards. As mwnciboo says, the Guards were very touchy about that kind of thing.

The armoured regiments were equipped with the Sherman V and VC Firefly, and the reconnaissance regiment was equipped with the Cromwell and Stuart VI (M5A1, otherwise rare in British service) - it's not clear from what I have that these were the Stuart Recce version, but most British Stuarts were converted by this time. Not all of the units in the Guards Armoured Division were actual guards - its artillery was from the Royal Artillery, and it included 1st Company Royal Northumberland Fusiliers (an independent mortar and machine gun company, mounted in carriers). The 1st Motor Battalion had carriers (for recon) and half-tracks.

Why are Stuart Recces called 'Jalopies'? Are they driven by Orks? Is the Stuart Recce any use in the game? They should look okay with some additional armour plate around the turret ring, and a couple of machine guns - I've always thought they looked rather sporty!

Tailgunner wrote:The Guards Armoured Division was created in 1941, so despite the venerable histories of many of its various component units, it was quite a new division, and the various Guards units (which had been infantry) converted to armour when it was created. It didn't see action until 1944. British unit descriptions can be quite confusing, partly because of the different uses of the term 'regiment'.

The British army is traditionally quite a small organisation (comparatively) thus regiments often have long histories, divisions tend not to.

+1 for more AA.

Tailgunner wrote:Why are Stuart Recces called 'Jalopies'? Are they driven by Orks?

They were called 'jalopies' because of their resemblance to the topless hot rod cars called 'jalopies' of the time. The Guards would not have used jalopies from what I have read, as they saw that as "desecration of His Majesty's property".

Both the Stuart VI and the jalopy are Reconnaissance units. The only advantage the jalopy has is its lower profile.

Tailgunner wrote:They should look okay with some additional armour plate around the turret ring, and a couple of machine guns

British Stuart jalopies did not add any armor. They simply removed the turret and tacked an MG (usually a .50 cal) to the front of the turret ring. Anyway, like I stated my problem is the big flat surface where the turret sits on the model. In real life, you would see the insides of the Stuart.

And while I appreciate everyone telling me I need AA, it would be more helpful if you were to tell me how to get it

Tailgunner wrote:Why are Stuart Recces called 'Jalopies'? Are they driven by Orks?

They were called 'jalopies' because of their resemblance to the topless hot rod cars called 'jalopies' of the time. The Guards would not have used jalopies from what I have read, as they saw that as "desecration of His Majesty's property".

Both the Stuart VI and the jalopy are Reconnaissance units. The only advantage the jalopy has is its lower profile.

Tailgunner wrote:They should look okay with some additional armour plate around the turret ring, and a couple of machine guns

British Stuart jalopies did not add any armor. They simply removed the turret and tacked an MG (usually a .50 cal) to the front of the turret ring. Anyway, like I stated my problem is the big flat surface where the turret sits on the model. In real life, you would see the insides of the Stuart.

And while I appreciate everyone telling me I need AA, it would be more helpful if you were to tell me how to get it

Either I missed or you didn't say which list you are using so I'm going to assume you're using this one:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Documents/Briefings/GrenadierGuards.pdf

The only dedicated AA option you have is on page 13. Go for a single section of three, buff them up to SP if you can afford it, but you may not want to bother as they have awkward layout.

Yes that is the briefing that I'm using for the Grenadier Guards. I also used the Taurus Pursuant Briefing for 3RTR and Hell's Highway for the Irish Guards.

However you're still not telling me how I'm supposed to field them when I don't have any free points!

Ghaz wrote:IThey were called 'jalopies' because of their resemblance to the topless hot rod cars called 'jalopies' of the time. The Guards would not have used jalopies from what I have read, as they saw that as "desecration of His Majesty's property".

Both the Stuart VI and the jalopy are Reconnaissance units. The only advantage the jalopy has is its lower profile.

British Stuart jalopies did not add any armor. They simply removed the turret and tacked an MG (usually a .50 cal) to the front of the turret ring. Anyway, like I stated my problem is the big flat surface where the turret sits on the model. In real life, you would see the insides of the Stuart.

I've never seen this vehicle referred to as anything other than 'Stuart Recce'. 'Jalopy' means a dilapidated vehicle, not a hot rod (and there weren't any hot rods in Britain in 1944!).

Stuart Recces were often fitted with improvised armour plate around the turret ring - I mentioned that because you were concerned about the gaping hole left by the removal of the turret. You could also have sandbags, or a tentroll. I have found some photos of Stuarts with turrets serving in Guards units, but none of Stuart Recces. However, the British had no use for light tanks by this time and most Stuarts in British service had lost their turrets by 1944, so it seems likely that the Guards must have had some. This isn't just academic for me - PSC have a Stuart kit in the pipeline, and I was planning on converting them into Stuart Recces.

Picture of a Stuart jalopy from Google

Battlefront also uses the term 'jalopy' in the online 11th Armoured Division Intelligence Briefing, on page 68 of Fortress Europe and I believe in one of the Italy books as well.

I believe that's a T-8, which was a limited standard conversion of the M5 done in the field and (it seems) used by the US. The gun ring seems to be the defining feature - British turretless Stuarts had much more improvised gun mounts. All of the turretless Stuarts in photographs in NW Europe seem to be based on the Stuart V (M3A3) or (very rarely) the Stuart III (M3A1, of which few survived by that time). And there are photos of Guards Stuart VIs with their turrets. It's therefore possible that the Guards didn't remove the turrets from their Stuart VIs. Turretless Stuarts are invariably known as the Stuart Recce in British sources (or 'Kangaroo' if used as a troop transport). I'm going to hazard a guess that 'Jalopy' may have been used by the New Zealander 4th Armoured Brigade, and BF (being a Kiwi company) have applied it to the vehicle generally.

This isn't just being pedantic - your original post got me doing some research I was going to do anyway. I think it's a great looking little vehicle:

It may be. Regardless the term 'jalopy' for a turretless Stuart is quite common and is not limited to just Battlefront.

Whatever you want to call them, can we get back on topic please.

One thing to keep in mind: When playing the Irish Guards from Hell's Highway is that you can get *2* Firefly tanks for each tank platoon. That is huge and the primary reason I am looking at building an Irish Guards Armored force and not a Welsh Guards armored recce force. I love the cromwells, but being able to have 2 17pdrs in each tank platoon is awesome and you can't do that with the armored recce force. Only one challanger per unit there.

With PSC releasing their M4A4/Firefly boxed set it is now pretty cheap to build the force with two fire flies in each platoon as well.

Skriker