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I dont always have the time to play full scale, and alot of my friends dont have the interest to fork out huge amounts of cash for full armies. And so i come to the beauty of kill teams. My goal? to make several teams, nicely converted, of diferent armies, but not gamebreakingly winnable. No, my aim is to make them balanced and interesting to play as, and against. I plan on using a variaty of cardboard boxes to make space hulk style tunnels, so terrain will help balance, but thought id get advice from others and critiuqe. Opinions and feedback please.

Space marines.
Figured the SWs bread and butter, the tactical squad, would make a good choice of a killteam. At 10 men, the free flamer and heavybolter and the sargeant with power fist and bolt pistol working out at 195 points. As for visuals, figured id do them up to look like a deathwatch killteam, use a few chapter specific pieces of helmet or gear to show their original chapter, as well as the bigger imperial gaurd heavy bolter with the shield

Tyranids.
was thinking along the lines of a brood lord with 10 genestealers and adrenel glands. Make them look like the alien and whatnot. not too up on my nid-knowledge beyond the codex, so input would reaallly help.

Chaos.
At first i thought daemons, but then realised having to use their deepstrike rule on every. single. model. would be a real pain in the ass. So i settled on chaos space marines. But didnt see the point in another damn tac squad, so thought a "specialist" squad would work better, though am undesided between plague marines, khorn berzerkers or a squad of raptors.

Necron.
Maybe something along the lines of 15 warriors? Again unsure on my necron, especialy against those damn reanimations protocols :/

Tau.
Torn between firewarriors with a mix of rifles and carbines, a shas'ui and maybe gun drones, or a kroot squad.

Ork.
Not much interest in the green skinned SOBs, but hell if people think they have anice idea feel free to share

As for the map - I took foam board ($1 at the local dollar store) and mate a bunch of interconnectible walls and corners to make mine, carboard will work.

Space Marines - That'll do.

Tyranids - I know genestealers don't need to be in synapse range, so a broodlord might not be necessary.

Chaos - I use Chaos myself. If you don't want standard Chaos Marines, you'd be best with Khorne Berzerkers and/or Plague Marines with this one. If you don't want to buy the expensive Plague Marines, buy a pack of Tactical Space Marines and paint them to look diseased.

Necrons - A Necron overlord or standard lord might be good in this mix. A standard necron warrior is 13 points a pop with no upgrades available (I think, I don't have the codex).

Tau - Zone Mortalis has no good use for Fire Warriors. They can't get the range that they need to do some damage (horrible melee). I suggest Battlesuits here. If you want kroot, go ahead, but the saves are very poor. Don't go with gun drones.

Orks - Probably the coolest to make models for. Some nobs, maybe a warboss, maybe just soem killa canz and some boyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No Eldar? Dark Eldar (I don't blame you on this one, yuck!)?

Dr. What wrote:As for the map - I took foam board ($1 at the local dollar store) and mate a bunch of interconnectible walls and corners to make mine, carboard will work.

Space Marines - That'll do.

Tyranids - I know genestealers don't need to be in synapse range, so a broodlord might not be necessary.

Chaos - I use Chaos myself. If you don't want standard Chaos Marines, you'd be best with Khorne Berzerkers and/or Plague Marines with this one. If you don't want to buy the expensive Plague Marines, buy a pack of Tactical Space Marines and paint them to look diseased.

Necrons - A Necron overlord or standard lord might be good in this mix. A standard necron warrior is 13 points a pop with no upgrades available (I think, I don't have the codex).

Tau - Zone Mortalis has no good use for Fire Warriors. They can't get the range that they need to do some damage (horrible melee). I suggest Battlesuits here. If you want kroot, go ahead, but the saves are very poor. Don't go with gun drones.

Orks - Probably the coolest to make models for. Some nobs, maybe a warboss, maybe just soem killa canz and some boyz.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
No Eldar? Dark Eldar (I don't blame you on this one, yuck!)?

Thanks for the feed back, will be my first real terrain job so il try the foam board instead then.

Tyranids- My argument for the broodlord was more to throw the extra punch in, though maybe i should just ditch it for more stealers then :s id considered a warrior team, but with the small numbers/multiple wounds seemed a bit over powered (also why i said tac SW and not termies).

Chaos- My only argument against the standerd marines here was it just ending up a colour edit of the SW squad, while itd balance out, doesnt seem it would be as interesting. Is there any reason against raptrs then?.

Necron- The overlord wouldnt be allowed *points up* said it was for kill-team rules, as in 0-1 Elite, 0-2 troops and 0-1 fast attack. No HQ or Heavies. And the warriors are 65pts for a squad of 5 then 13 for each extra and no upgrades available.

Tau- Really? while i admit theyr rather lacking up close, seemed they would pull their own in the length corridors :0 the battlesuits may be good idea, but then (not too sure here) wouldnt that unbalance it a bit against the other forces being a walker?

Orks- Again pretty sure a warboss is HQ? And aye, to convert all id really need is scrap from the other sprues

Oh and space elves and BDSM space elves? yeaahhh no -_-

my favorite Kill Team for Tyranids is 4x Warriors with BS & Lash Whip, Toxin Sacs & Devourers.

They have a decent amount of firepower and with Lash whips they pretty much strike first against most things that scare them in CC and with 4 WS5 Str 4 poisoned power weapon attacks on the charge. Most models they come across in kill team will die.

2/3 roughly they'll kill a Terminator on the charge. about 50% of the time they'll win if charged by said terminator. THSS termi's is a bit harder....

That won't do for marines. Tac squad sucks. The best kill team option for marines if you cannot take vehicles is: 5-man sternguard + 5-man snipers.

If you can take vehicle, take 5-man sternguard, a Razorback with Heavy Bolter.

Of the 5-man sternguard, take 2 heavy bolters, 2 combi-melta, 1 combi-plasma.

The Razorback, give it an extra Storm bolter.

You will dish out so many shots and the special ammos on the sternguards can out-kill Tau in shooting, destroy terminators in rapid-fire range, outright kill off special weapon platform in cover...

Kill teams are fun. Unfortunately the main issue people have with kill teams is that horde armies are a lot stronger than elite armies.

This is because of the sheer volume of guns they can bring to the table, and that small elite armies are limited in the amount of different targets that they can shoot at. What this will end up meaning is that a swarm ork or tyranid army is going to give elite armies like space marines and chaos a really tough time.

I also think that Imperial Guard or a breed of Elves would be a good way to add diversity

@akaean: Nah: Dragonfire bolts from Sternguards ignore cover save, horde armour and will kill them out right on 2+. Heavy Bolter is the only way to go in Kill Team games since you can split fire.

akaean is correct in his assessment, leohart. I have yet to win against orks, IG, or kroot Tau with either my marines, eldar, or necrons (old list using 5 immortals and 5 scarabs) due to the fact that I'm out-gunned or outnumbered.

If CC attacks could be split in the same way as shooting, shot-by-shot, then things might be different but my group doesn't play that way.

I have only played against Tau, Eldar, Necron, IG and Tyranids. Albeit, my opponents are not the best but I have always win rather convincingly with enough heavy bolter shots and sternguard special ammunition.

I should get more Kill Team games in but they are hard to find outside of league games.

@Gavin: Can you post a typical 200 pts Ork, nids and Tau that you think will win convincingly against my current list:

Sternguard w/ HB - Relentless
Sternguard w/ HB - Slow and Purposeful
Sternguard w/ Combi-plasma - Fell no Pain
Sternguard w/ Combi-melta
Sternguard w/ Combi-melta
Razorback w/ HB - Storm bolter.

To answer your question, here is a sample guard list.

[125] Vets- Auto Cannon, 3 Plasma Guns
[75] 7 rough riders

Auto Cannon has Relentless, Plasma 1 has FnP, Plasma 2 has Swarm (for 3 wounds and stealth I think this works, can't recall though)

I mean yea, splitting fire makes a game out of things, but you are still outnumbered 3:1, the guard easily has the fire power to neutralize your Razor quickly, and the 18-24 inch charge range on the rough riders, coupled with the extra terrain in kill team missions, should be able to make you sweat- especially if the terrain prevents line of sight on some of those riders.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Again il say, the idea isnt to bring a single "killer" team exactly, but to get an interesting ballance. I normaly play GK, but i plan on leaving the old nemasis weapons at home and playing with these minisquads too (probably randomise it >> roll of 1 for SW, 2 for orks etc). So having a single OP force isnt realyy a great idea. And again, no vehicles, i plan on putting together some spacehulk style corridors.

Thanks for the nudge towards IG, id have just gotten lazy and done a regular platoon, but maybe that setup would be more ballanced against?

Elves again probably just my own bias but if people think it would balance out then >> Though if its sounding like im gonna end up with a squad of everything, maybe i should just do 3 to start :s else ima be paying for a full damn army -_-

Swarm is not a USR so it won't work. Terrain is very heavy in kill team. Usually at 50% or more.

Your 7 rough riders suddenly cannot do anything because they cannot attack anyone not on the bottom floor. The vets will be popped the second they are within 36" range of HB. If they stay out of 30" range, Kraken bolt will also take them out.

How many models are the vets? 10?

I was hesitant to post a list because everybody knows all plans fall apart at first contact. Anyway please don't assume 50% terrain and clear line of sight at 30 inches.
Anyone can theoryhammer their list to victory. But you need to test run against good ork or guard players to see what we mean.

Anyway, eldar suck at kill teams, sadly. A combination of expensive, frail, short ranged models. The tested build is 10 dire avengers and 5 fire dragons.

I lost a play-test game against Scorpion list w/ FoF Exarch. Stupid thing blowing stuff up.

Kill teams are really enjoyable as its fast paced, i usually get bored by the end of a 1500 point battle. I think dropping either the CSM or SM would be good idea and replace it with eldar or guard. Having two power armoured forces is a bit samey (if thats a word)

TH3FALL3N wrote:Kill teams are really enjoyable as its fast paced, i usually get bored by the end of a 1500 point battle. I think dropping either the CSM or SM would be good idea and replace it with eldar or guard. Having two power armoured forces is a bit samey (if thats a word)

Thats why i didnt think just the regular CSM squad would work, the samey value. wheras say the zerkers or raptors as a specialist force could throw in the variaty (am i mistaken in remembering the raptors having their 12"?). But il take the advice when given (especialy when asked for :p). I will probably be keeping the SW tacs as a first squad (had the box gifted to me a year or so back, havnt had much need of em as is so was either a deathwatch killteam or give them spare telaporters and make another interceptor squad)

After i suppose a classic choice for the orks or tyrannids (maybe a genestealer and adreneal gland loadout, or some ork ard boys, big shoota and nob with powerclaw?).

haha seems everyone has their own "killer" killteam lists yet trying to find a none OP one that balances with an oponent is a little harder ><

actually while im at it how viable is an henchmen warband squad? they count as elite, but need an inquisitor (whos HQ) to be used normaly :/

leohart wrote:@Gavin: Can you post a typical 200 pts Ork, nids and Tau that you think will win convincingly against my current list:

Sternguard w/ HB - Relentless
Sternguard w/ HB - Slow and Purposeful
Sternguard w/ Combi-plasma - Fell no Pain
Sternguard w/ Combi-melta
Sternguard w/ Combi-melta
Razorback w/ HB - Storm bolter.

The lists I ran into the most trouble against were Fire Warriors (5 or 6?) and a horde of Kroot with a Shaper and what I recall to be a standard IG blob with a few plasma guns. No one played orks at the tourney my club ran, unfortunately, but I'd compare them to the kind of tactics I ran into against the IG for the most part - a few guys shoot and everyone else runs as fast as they can at you to pile on as many attacks as they can. One unit that I heard held up good was a SW Iron Priest on Thunderwolf with maxed out Fenrisian Wolves.

An important house rule I should mention is that my club disallowed vehicles completely. This makes a huge difference in playability and weapon loadout for every army since you tend to veer away from anti-armor and more towards anti-infantry. At the 200 point range, it can be difficult for some arimes to field an effective counter to both.

akaean wrote:I was hesitant to post a list because everybody knows all plans fall apart at first contact. Anyway please don't assume 50% terrain and clear line of sight at 30 inches.
Anyone can theoryhammer their list to victory. But you need to test run against good ork or guard players to see what we mean.

Anyway, eldar suck at kill teams, sadly. A combination of expensive, frail, short ranged models. The tested build is 10 dire avengers and 5 fire dragons.

I've had great luck with two eldar builds, 3 jet bikes with a cannon and a destructor warlock or a team of Harlequins with kisses and fusion pistols, a Death Jester, and a Troupe Leader.

The bikes are very maneuverable, but take casualties quickly if left in line of sight. The trick is to hide them effectively and use JSJ tactics like the pointy-eared bastich all eldar players should be. The warlock can dish out a hurting to opportunity targets before piling in to duke it out and can hold up to some punishment with 3+/4++, despite not having a reroll from Fortune.

The Harlequins fare well with lots of terrain since they ignore it and can usually make themselves out of LOS to avoid being shot at until they are close enough to pile in. Their high number of attacks works against them, though, since after they kill one guy the other attacks are wasted and they're not able to hit and run back into cover. Also, they lose the benefit of a Shadowseer unless you make houserules for it.

All aspect warriors are going to suffer because the powers provided to them by their exarchs are lost. I've had decent luck with Banshees and Dragons, but positioning and maneuvering are everything. I like that Kill Team is more tactical than 40K, but the rules could use a little tweaking.

If you're not dropping CSM then i reccomend not going with 'Zerkers. I feel they are one of the most disgusting units in the game, i always seem to have problems when im against them regardless of how many krak missiles are put their way. Raptors would be a nice change for a chaos themed kill team

Perhaps these could help you:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=1800030-gws

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=1800040-gws

I would have thought the zerkers need for assualt would have ballanced their stubberness against actually dieing out, but again suppose il go with the voice of those more knowledgeable :p

and yes i know zone mortalis, if you meen for the terrain part i have no intention on forking out more than i need when i can make some corridors myself >>