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I'm reading A Thousand Sins right now, and trying to picture the tutelaries. Can anyone provide some visuals? I've searched but I haven't really found any substantial imagery...

I'm guessing an eitheryal creature if I remember correct I almost thought of fish swimming out of regular sight but just below the warps surface

Probably a Horror of Tzeentch...although somewhat surprisingly, the members of the Fourth Fellowship didn't have them, or they probably didn't bring them when they were told to leave Prospero with the fleet by Magnus the Red.

BLOODCLAWallday wrote:I'm reading A Thousand Sins right now, and trying to picture the tutelaries. Can anyone provide some visuals? I've searched but I haven't really found any substantial imagery...

they're horrors of tzeentch.
which doesn't necessarily mean that they look like the figs in the game or the pictures in the books.
Demons of tzeentch are physical incarnations of deception, however, so they can take on a variety of forms.
Usually ones that will in some way decieve their prey.

I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

Always pictured them like a little super flourescent butterfly/fairy thing.

You're still reading through it correct?

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

DarknessEternal wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

Then that would include the Eldar and Ork Gods, and, at least partly, the Emperor and the Primarchs.

I don't think they look anything like horrors of Tzeentch, personally. The descriptions in the book are pretty apt. I imagine 'em looking like creatures made of light and energy - ghostly, aetheral things that can only be seen by those with the power to see them.

Tadashi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

Then that would include the Eldar and Ork Gods, and, at least partly, the Emperor and the Primarchs.

Well actually, the Avatar of Khaine is considered a daemon. I'm not sure about the ork gods and the Emperor however.

Also:

DarknessEternal wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

As does "denizen" as all daemons are denizens of the warp.... wow I really trapped myself there...

I meant as in little daemon thingys... not like the bigger guys but... Well I don't know how to explain it... they're butterflies in the warp, they make warps storms...

Blitza da warboy wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

Then that would include the Eldar and Ork Gods, and, at least partly, the Emperor and the Primarchs.

Well actually, the Avatar of Khaine is considered a daemon. I'm not sure about the ork gods and the Emperor however.

Also:

Spoiler:

The primarchs are said to have been made using chaos energy as it is said that the emperor created a pact with the chaos gods to gain power and/or create his sons. In a way, you could say that they are part daemon.

Actually I meant since the Emperor supposedly inherited the reincarnation ability from the shamans (could be triggered IMO by the Terminus Decree), that would make Him part-Daemon/Warp God (as if he wasn't an equivalent already). The Emperor didn't make a pact with the Powers though; He used warp energy, but used His powers to channel them into the Primarchs.

I always imagined them to look like that irritating guide you had in Ocarina of Time that went "HEY, LISTEN!"

I wanted to strangle that god damned thing.

Not all creatures of the warp are Daemons, you have Vampyres, Enslavers, Astral Spectres to name a few. But the Tutelaries would be some form of lesser daemon, not sure if they would be horrors or not though. I guess there could be even lesser entities than the known lesser Daemons, the way they are described in A Thousand Sons seems to suggest this. Wasn't one a Burning Wheel and another in the form of a Dragon?

The reason we said they're horrors is because Tzeentch had his eye on the thousand sons legion from the beginning. Even though he never makes a direct appearance in thousand sons, it's clear that he manipulated the legion from the beginning. What else would the tutelaries be except horrors of tzeentch?

GreatGunz wrote:The reason we said they're horrors is because Tzeentch had his eye on the thousand sons legion from the beginning. Even though he never makes a direct appearance in thousand sons, it's clear that he manipulated the legion from the beginning. What else would the tutelaries be except horrors of tzeentch?

Some other form of Tzeentchian daemon maybe, doesn't have to be a Horror. Just because we have been given names of lesser daemons, doesn't mean that these are are the only type of Daemon that exists for their respective Gods. From the Heresy series we've been shown that there are numerous types of entities out there, some unknown. You had some ones that are easy to place like the Daemon from the Laer blade, clearly a Slaaneshi daemon, but what about Oroborous or Wsoric, Samus or Sarr'Kell?

Tzeentch had planned the turning of the Thousand Sons from the start, sure, but what if the Tutelaries weren't even affiliated with Tzeentch, but were just some warp entity that had entered into a pact with one of the Sons. Just another part of the puzzle that Tzeentch used to bring them under his wing?

Well, they're tzeentch demons anyway. Maybe not horrors.

I pictured them more as screamers

Tadashi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

Then that would include the Eldar and Ork Gods, and, at least partly, the Emperor and the Primarchs.

The Eldar and Ork gods ARE daemons. That's inarguable.

The Emperor and primarchs are not native to the Warp. They are native to the material universe.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I thought there were like actual little warp denizens... not big like an actual demon, but more like a warp spawn...

There's no difference. Everything native to the Warp falls under the umbrella of "daemon".

Then that would include the Eldar and Ork Gods, and, at least partly, the Emperor and the Primarchs.

The Eldar and Ork gods ARE daemons. That's inarguable.

The Emperor and primarchs are not native to the Warp. They are native to the material universe.

I said partly. The Emperor infused the Primarchs woth warp energy during their creation, while the Emperor was born because countless shaman souls fused themselves in the Warp. They are native to the material universe, but are also partly native to the warp. The Farseers (arguably the most powerful purely mortal psykers alive) can't reincarnate, and both Magnus and the Emperor could 'traverse' the Warp, something no mortal psyker could possibly do. Additionally, the Emperor and the Primarchs were immortal (something inherited by the Astartes) - the only material beings capable of doing so are the C'tan, pure energy and all, but the Emperor, the Primarchs, and the Astartes use their passive warp 'inheritance' to become immortal.

Weren't there descriptions of them in the book? IIRC Ahriman's was like a hawk or something. I saw them more like they would be animals or more familiar forms to the astartes. I really doubt they would of made pacts with them if they looked like actual monsters.

The demon is naught but lies.
They make themselves look like hawks or foxes or other cute little companion animals because that's more cuddly than the tentacled fire-breathing abominations they look like in the game.

Well, if it's an opaque flying object it could be interpreted as a hawk, or eagle, or anything else that flies. It would suck to be the Corvidae who gets stuck with the butterfly

BLOODCLAWallday wrote:Well, if it's an opaque flying object it could be interpreted as a hawk, or eagle, or anything else that flies. It would suck to be the Corvidae who gets stuck with the butterfly

Butterfly effect man! Instead of causing massive weather systems they influence warpstorms! ;D

mm, I always figured tzeentchian daemons, probably horrors.

Don't forget, not every horror looks like the ones we have models of. They're change incarnate, so they can look like whatever they please.

I might be remembering wrong, but dont the tutelaries become really sinister & change their forms at the end of the book.

somecallmeJack wrote:mm, I always figured tzeentchian daemons, probably horrors.

Don't forget, not every horror looks like the ones we have models of. They're change incarnate, so they can look like whatever they please.

I might be remembering wrong, but dont the tutelaries become really sinister & change their forms at the end of the book.

Spoiler!!! Don't know how for the OP has gotten through the book...

Booooooo I'm on like, chapter 6 damnit!

BLOODCLAWallday wrote:Booooooo I'm on like, chapter 6 damnit!

Apologies...