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Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Glendale, AZ

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fast-furious-20120319,0,3662110.story

Reporting from Washington— Seven months after federal agents began the ill-fated Fast and Furious gun-tracking operation, they stumbled upon their main suspect in a remote Arizona outpost on the Mexican border, driving an old BMW with 74 rounds of ammunition and nine cellphones hidden inside.

Detained for questioning that day in May 2010, Manuel Fabian Celis-Acosta described to agents from theBureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosiveshis close association with a top Mexican drug cartel member, according to documents obtained this weekend by the Times/Tribune Washington Bureau.

The top Fast and Furious investigator, Special Agent Hope MacAllister, scribbled her phone number on a $10 bill after he pledged to cooperate and keep in touch with investigators.

Then Celis-Acosta disappeared into Mexico. He never called.

Had they arrested him red-handed trying to smuggle ammunition into Mexico, Fast and Furious might have ended quickly. Instead, the program dragged on for another eight months, spiraling out of control.

Celis-Acosta continued slipping back and forth across the border, authorities say, illegally purchasing more U.S. weapons and financing others. He was not arrested until February 2011, a month after Fast and Furious closed down.

The operation, run by the ATF's Phoenix field office, allowed illegal gun purchases in Arizona in hopes of tracking the weapons to Mexican drug cartel leaders. Instead, about 1,700 guns vanished, and scores turned up at crime scenes in Mexico. Two were found south of Tucson where U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was shot to death in December 2010.

Why ATF agents did not arrest Celis-Acosta immediately is not clear. He was their prime suspect and the subject of secret wiretaps approved by the Justice Department.

"Due to the fact that the criminal case is still ongoing in the courts, and the inspector general's office is still investigating, we cannot comment about this," ATF chief spokesman Drew Wade said.

Other law enforcement officials, speaking anonymously because of ongoing investigations, acknowledged it was a crucial blunder in a deeply flawed program. "I don't know why they didn't arrest him," one said. "They certainly could have."

But, another argued, agents may have viewed Celis-Acosta as a possible conduit to the cartels. "He was cooperating and talking a lot and giving up a lot," he said. "From an investigative standpoint, that's pretty good information you're getting. Maybe he can hook you into even bigger fish."

Fast and Furious, which is under investigation by the Justice Department's inspector general, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Vista) and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), began Oct. 31, 2009. From the start, Celis-Acosta, 24, was the main target, according to internal ATF documents that have not been publicly released. An ATF flow chart listed him at the top of more than two dozen individuals involved in the gun-smuggling ring.

The documents state that Celis-Acosta led the smuggling ring and that he was paid from drug proceeds to illegally acquire firearms for cartels. He carried a permanent U.S. resident card, a Social Security number and an Arizona driver's license. He moved easily between homes in Mexico and Phoenix. Eventually arrested by U.S. marshals at a relative's home in El Paso, he pleaded not guilty to gun-smuggling charges as one of 19 Fast and Furious defendants. None of the 19 has gone to trial.

According to an ATF "Report of Investigation," prepared by MacAllister, authorized by her supervisor, David J. Voth, and reviewed by William D. Newell, then the ATF special agent in charge in Arizona, U.S. authorities stopped Celis-Acosta as he headed south through the border town of Lukeville, Ariz.

The document said an ammunition magazine containing 74 rounds was hidden in a spare tire, and the phones in the dash. In the trunk of the 2002 BMW 754i was a ledger referring to money given to "Killer" and a list of firearms.

Celis-Acosta first said he did not know the ammunition was inside. He said a friend's mother bought the BMW "with a credit card."

MacAllister was called to the scene, and Celis-Acosta began to open up. He admitted he knew "a lot about firearms." He conceded he was en route to a birthday party for "Chendi," a close associate who he said was a Mexican cartel member and "right-hand man" to Joaquin "Chapo" Guzman, head of the Sinaloa cartel.

Celis-Acosta said Chendi moved 6,000 pounds of marijuana a week into the U.S., terrorized Mexican police, wore a $15,000 wristwatch and lived in a home with "a lot of gold" inside and a landing strip outside.

MacAllister checked with the Drug Enforcement Administration and learned Chendi — real name Claudio Jamie Badilla — was a "large-scale marijuana and multi-kilogram cocaine trafficker."

MacAllister asked Celis-Acosta whether he "would be willing to cooperate." When he said yes, they confiscated the ammunition and let him go.

Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

The ATF, incompetent? Surely not.

The ATF in my mind just barely edges out the TSA on the list of "Federal organizations that should not exist".

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






It's almost as if the operation wasn't actually out to catch the top suspect that the "gun walking" operation was supposed to catch. It's either a conspiracy or wild incompetence or both. I tend to think that incompetence is in fact to blame.
@Ouze the TSA is blatantly unconstitutional where the ATF skirts that narrow line. In the end both need to exist about as much as the Department of Education SWAT team.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

It's incompetence more likely than not.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Melissia wrote:It's incompetence more likely than not.


maybe.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Hanlon's razor, Frazzled.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Melissia wrote:Hanlon's razor, Frazzled.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


Unless malice has a motivated reason. In this case it does.

If your target goal is create a situation wherein greater gun restrictions are put in place and not stopping the Mexican cartels, then this fits just fine.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






The case of intentionally feigning incompetence could also count with Hanlon's razor I guess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 14:31:39


   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Frazzled wrote:If your target goal is create a situation wherein greater gun restrictions are put in place and not stopping the Mexican cartels, then this fits just fine.


it all makes sense now...

The ATF realizes how utterly worthless they really are so they make the situation worse so that people with think they're worth someth- Wait a minute. I've seen this plot before...



Oh. My. Gawds.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Think more...creating a pretext for something they want to do.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






LordofHats wrote:
Frazzled wrote:If your target goal is create a situation wherein greater gun restrictions are put in place and not stopping the Mexican cartels, then this fits just fine.


it all makes sense now...

The ATF realizes how utterly worthless they really are so they make the situation worse so that people with think they're worth someth- Wait a minute. I've seen this plot before...

Oh. My. Gawds.

I'm not sure if you are aware or not, but a memo circulated within the ATF revealed that they were in fact looking for a situation to justify imposing new regulation. Regulation that was but into place after the murder of Brian Terry. It seems conspiratorial, but I'm far more likely to believe monumental stupidity rather than malice like Mel says.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.

Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Frazzled wrote:Think more...creating a pretext for something they want to do.


I was being pseud-serious. I hate the ATF. They do almost the same thing as the FBI except... not as the FBI? The Tabacco and Alcohol aspects of ATF are pretty much defunct so now all they do is incompetently pursue gun runners.

Of course they want to create a pretext for tougher gun laws. Then they can more easily justify existing.

   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Perhaps they were playing smarter than they look.

Bug him, release him, and see where he goes.

The gun runner is a small cog in the wheel. His customers may be more important targets.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Frazzled wrote:
Melissia wrote:Hanlon's razor, Frazzled.

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


Unless malice has a motivated reason. In this case it does.

If your target goal is create a situation wherein greater gun restrictions are put in place and not stopping the Mexican cartels, then this fits just fine.



I think idiots like Mr Z down in Florida have done more to advance the cause of gun control than any internal conspiracy could.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 16:14:45


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Nope, not when the Secretary of State is using the gunrunning as a cause celeb to push for more restrictive laws.

It just blew up in their face.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

LordofHats wrote:
Of course they want to create a pretext for tougher gun laws. Then they can more easily justify existing.


There are also certain policy reasons to pursue tougher gun laws.

And, as we all know, policy is at least 50% salesmanship.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
 
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