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HQ - 100pts

Librarian: Force Dome, Gate of Infinity, Bolt Pistol

Elites - 285pts

Sternguard Squad: 9men, Sgt w/ Power fist, Rhino

Troops - 510pts

Tactical Squad: Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w/ Melta Bombs, Razorback w/ TL Assault Cannon

Tactical Squad: Melta Gun, Missile Launcher, Sgt w/ Melta Bombs, Razorback w/ TL Lascannon

Fast Attack - 230pts

Landspeeder - MultiMelta, Heavy Flamer

Landspeeder - MultiMelta, Heavy Flamer

Landspeeder - Heavy Bolter, Typhoon Missile Launcher

Heavy Support - 375pts

Vindicator - Siege Shield

Vindicator - Siege Shield

Vindicator - Siege Shield

- 1500pts

30 MEQ, 6 Vehicles

What do you all think? The Librarian is traveling with the Sternguard, of course, for an extra bit of CC and the invuln save for when it's needed. I can set up the vehicles and troops together if I'm facing a Close Combat army, and hold the line, or if I'm against an army like Tau, move up quickly to take ground while also dishing out some pain.

11 cant fit in a rhino

wpago wrote:11 cant fit in a rhino

Good thing I have 9 Sternguard :O

I'm not entirely sold on Vindicators, but it does look solid.

Well, I like vindicators because of the blast, and I've had good luck with them bringing things down. (and they are the only heavy support thing I've really got. >.&gt

NEVER do MM/HF LS. They will only ever get to shoot one weapon, and then can't shoot for the rest of the game because they are getting shaken by bolters. I don't like any speeders exept typhoons, but if you really want to take suicide speeders, I would go all melta. Instead of suicide speeders, you could, for fewer points, get MM attack bikes. They are just as fast, and can't get shaken.

Armadeus wrote:NEVER do MM/HF LS. They will only ever get to shoot one weapon, and then can't shoot for the rest of the game because they are getting shaken by bolters. I don't like any speeders exept typhoons, but if you really want to take suicide speeders, I would go all melta. Instead of suicide speeders, you could, for fewer points, get MM attack bikes. They are just as fast, and can't get shaken.

Really? Everyone else seems to suggest MM/HF speeders, for the fact you can either deal with a swarm of Orks or Tyranids, or you can blast tanks to your hearts content.

With things like Vindicators and Sternguard, the opponent should have plenty of other things to shoot at other than a 70pt land speeder.

Crazyterran wrote:

Armadeus wrote:NEVER do MM/HF LS. They will only ever get to shoot one weapon, and then can't shoot for the rest of the game because they are getting shaken by bolters. I don't like any speeders exept typhoons, but if you really want to take suicide speeders, I would go all melta. Instead of suicide speeders, you could, for fewer points, get MM attack bikes. They are just as fast, and can't get shaken.

Really? Everyone else seems to suggest MM/HF speeders, for the fact you can either deal with a swarm of Orks or Tyranids, or you can blast tanks to your hearts content.

With things like Vindicators and Sternguard, the opponent should have plenty of other things to shoot at other than a 70pt land speeder.

If you want land speeders to do both, then take one that's all flamer, and one that's all melta. They will get one shot of with there weapons, and then get shaken by bolters. Yeah, they have other things to shoot at, but it only takes one tac squad that's out of range of your sternguard to stop it from shooting. Also, do you really want you sternguard and vindicators taking shots for your speeders? They should stay hidden up until they can shoot, at witch point your speeders, if you have a competent opponent, will be dead.

Looks solid to me good list and creative.

Armadeus wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

Armadeus wrote:NEVER do MM/HF LS. They will only ever get to shoot one weapon, and then can't shoot for the rest of the game because they are getting shaken by bolters. I don't like any speeders exept typhoons, but if you really want to take suicide speeders, I would go all melta. Instead of suicide speeders, you could, for fewer points, get MM attack bikes. They are just as fast, and can't get shaken.

Really? Everyone else seems to suggest MM/HF speeders, for the fact you can either deal with a swarm of Orks or Tyranids, or you can blast tanks to your hearts content.

With things like Vindicators and Sternguard, the opponent should have plenty of other things to shoot at other than a 70pt land speeder.

If you want land speeders to do both, then take one that's all flamer, and one that's all melta. They will get one shot of with there weapons, and then get shaken by bolters. Yeah, they have other things to shoot at, but it only takes one tac squad that's out of range of your sternguard to stop it from shooting. Also, do you really want you sternguard and vindicators taking shots for your speeders? They should stay hidden up until they can shoot, at witch point your speeders, if you have a competent opponent, will be dead.

I'll try out both types of load outs in a test game or two, thats what magnets are for, right?

Thank you for giving me something to think about, guess I'll see which works out better: two versatile ones, or two specific ones.

Crazyterran wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

Armadeus wrote:NEVER do MM/HF LS. They will only ever get to shoot one weapon, and then can't shoot for the rest of the game because they are getting shaken by bolters. I don't like any speeders exept typhoons, but if you really want to take suicide speeders, I would go all melta. Instead of suicide speeders, you could, for fewer points, get MM attack bikes. They are just as fast, and can't get shaken.

Really? Everyone else seems to suggest MM/HF speeders, for the fact you can either deal with a swarm of Orks or Tyranids, or you can blast tanks to your hearts content.

With things like Vindicators and Sternguard, the opponent should have plenty of other things to shoot at other than a 70pt land speeder.

If you want land speeders to do both, then take one that's all flamer, and one that's all melta. They will get one shot of with there weapons, and then get shaken by bolters. Yeah, they have other things to shoot at, but it only takes one tac squad that's out of range of your sternguard to stop it from shooting. Also, do you really want you sternguard and vindicators taking shots for your speeders? They should stay hidden up until they can shoot, at witch point your speeders, if you have a competent opponent, will be dead.

I'll try out both types of load outs in a test game or two, thats what magnets are for, right?

Thank you for giving me something to think about, guess I'll see which works out better: two versatile ones, or two specific ones.

MM/HF speeders work because you can only fire 1 weapon at a time if you move more than 6" for eg:
2 MM/HF speeders vs AV 12+ = 2 MM after move 12" vs infantry = 2HF after move 12"
1 MM/MM speeder + 1HF/HF speeder vs av12+ = 2MM after move 6" or 1MM after move 12" vs infantry = 2HF2MM after move 6" or 1HF1MM after move 12"

as you can see you get more punch from the 2MM/HF than the specified role speeders and at longer ranges also mite mention something about eggs in baskets...

smoothpop wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

Armadeus wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

Armadeus wrote:NEVER do MM/HF LS. They will only ever get to shoot one weapon, and then can't shoot for the rest of the game because they are getting shaken by bolters. I don't like any speeders exept typhoons, but if you really want to take suicide speeders, I would go all melta. Instead of suicide speeders, you could, for fewer points, get MM attack bikes. They are just as fast, and can't get shaken.

Really? Everyone else seems to suggest MM/HF speeders, for the fact you can either deal with a swarm of Orks or Tyranids, or you can blast tanks to your hearts content.

With things like Vindicators and Sternguard, the opponent should have plenty of other things to shoot at other than a 70pt land speeder.

If you want land speeders to do both, then take one that's all flamer, and one that's all melta. They will get one shot of with there weapons, and then get shaken by bolters. Yeah, they have other things to shoot at, but it only takes one tac squad that's out of range of your sternguard to stop it from shooting. Also, do you really want you sternguard and vindicators taking shots for your speeders? They should stay hidden up until they can shoot, at witch point your speeders, if you have a competent opponent, will be dead.

I'll try out both types of load outs in a test game or two, thats what magnets are for, right?

Thank you for giving me something to think about, guess I'll see which works out better: two versatile ones, or two specific ones.

MM/HF speeders work because you can only fire 1 weapon at a time if you move more than 6" for eg:
2 MM/HF speeders vs AV 12+ = 2 MM after move 12" vs infantry = 2HF after move 12"
1 MM/MM speeder + 1HF/HF speeder vs av12+ = 2MM after move 6" or 1MM after move 12" vs infantry = 2HF2MM after move 6" or 1HF1MM after move 12"

as you can see you get more punch from the 2MM/HF than the specified role speeders and at longer ranges also mite mention something about eggs in baskets...

That's what I was sort of thinking (but much less organized and with less clear thoughts ) and I figured the ability to target anything for effect would be better than both my MMs or HFs together so they can do nothing if they get shaken.

Nonetheless, I'll try them both in a few casual games, but I'm leaning towards versatility in any form of competitive environment.

MM/HF speeders work in theory, but in practice they just end up paying for an upgrade that they never use. If you want it to kill both infantry and tanks, go typhoon. Don't take my word for it though. Playtesting is by far the beast way to learn.

Razorbacks are only transport capacity of 6. You require 10 marines a squad for flamers/meltas/plasmas/missle launchers.

Big Mek Grodclog Mekgrim wrote:Razorbacks are only transport capacity of 6. You require 10 marines a squad for flamers/meltas/plasmas/missle launchers.

I'm aware.

I can combat squad them, and one combat squad in the Razorback. Or I can take them without actually mounting my units in them, and have them operate with my Vindicators.

It's a safe assumption, when I'm spending 510 points on troops, and giving them special weapons that are worth a combined total of 10pts, that they are at 10 Marines strong.

Okay, I just didn't know how you were going to play them.

Its quite streamlined and should perform well. I don't agree with all of your choices (vindicators, razorbacks, some loadouts) but ymmv.

Armadeus wrote:MM/HF speeders work in theory, but in practice they just end up paying for an upgrade that they never use. If you want it to kill both infantry and tanks, go typhoon. Don't take my word for it though. Playtesting is by far the beast way to learn.

This is only true if you don't look at the big picture. When most people build lists, it's not with a certain army in mind. Yes in any given game they'll only fire one of the weapons, but the list is overall stronger because it isn't geared towards beating only one specific kind of list.


Also, Sternguard really don't make their points back in close combat. I'd slap combi-weapons on them in a heartbeat. Also I prefer to field two smaller units of sternguard than one big one.

I'd have to agree with Lotus on his statement on Sternguard. much better if you have them as your supporting fire, since of the special ammunition ruling.