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Greetings fellow Dakkanauts.

I've got a game tomorrow against a friend of mine who happens to be using grey knights. He says hes running an elite, small unit, paladin led force, backed up with psyrifle dreads. Now I've only ever played GK once before & it was the henchmen spam build with no actual GKs whatsoever (although that player was running a couple of those pesky dreads too). In light of that, I was just wondering if anyone could give me any general tips on what he might have in his list, & what the units do, & any general advice.

Ill be running mech guard myself, & the points level is 1500

I havent posted my own list, cos Im not really looking for hard counters or anything, Im just very unfamiliar with GKs & want to know what Im up against & what to watch out for.


- Jack

With mech guard you presumably have plenty of melta guns? That's all you really need...

mm, melta vets & plasma vets are the mainstay of my list. Im also running a melta CCS

Various artillery & tanks make up the rest of the list. If Im feeling fruity I might put one of the vet units in a valk or vendetta, there might be a psyker battle squad in there too.

somecallmeJack wrote:mm, melta vets & plasma vets are the mainstay of my list. Im also running a melta CCS

Various artillery & tanks make up the rest of the list. If Im feeling fruity I might put one of the vet units in a valk or vendetta, there might be a psyker battle squad in there too.

Well paladin death stars rely on wound allocation, fnp, libbys, and giving insta death stuff to draigo since he's ew. So in esscence ap 1-2, str 8 etc will all be very effective.

Step 1 - Open your mouth

Step 2 - suck

Step 3 - Laugh as your entire army gets tabled

Smitty0305 wrote:Step 1 - Open your mouth

Step 2 - suck

Step 3 - Laugh as your entire army gets tabled

They aren't that scary. I dont think Im a poor enough player with a poor enough list to get tabled.

6 meltavet squads in chimeras, plus melta CCS in chimera=1075
Throw in a Psker Squad in chimera to bring you to 1240. Then a couple of Leman Russes and a MOTF in case he tries to deepstrike.
7 chimeras and 2 Leman Russes. You'll chew him up.

Thats not a bad idea at all Joey. Thats more or less what my list looks like anyway. Ive never used MOTF, I dont have the codex to hand, its MOTF who influences your oppoenents reserve rolls & astropath that influences yours, right?

I've been toying with the idea of keep as much as possible in reserve lately & using astropath to steamroll everything on at once for some mid-late game objective snatching.

Lascannons and meltaguns ignore his armor saves, instant death his paladins, ignore FnP, and wound on 2's. What's the problem, again?

somecallmeJack wrote:Thats not a bad idea at all Joey. Thats more or less what my list looks like anyway. Ive never used MOTF, I dont have the codex to hand, its MOTF who influences your oppoenents reserve rolls & OOF that influences yours, right?

I've been toying with the idea of keep as much as possible in reserve lately & using OOF to steamroll everything on at once for some mid-late game objective snatching.

Yeah Master of the Fleet gives -1 to your opponent's reserve rolls and you can make him re-roll the outflank dice. Astropath gives +1 to YOUR reserve roll and lets you re-roll the outflank dice.
So you got the two mixed up I usually take both anyway, most armies have something nasty that can deep strike or outflank. Pretty sure Paladins can deepstrike, so I'd go with a MOTF.

TedNugent wrote:Lascannons and meltaguns ignore his armor saves, instant death his paladins, ignore FnP, and wound on 2's. What's the problem, again?

there isnt one, from the sound of these replies. I dont really know anything about GK armies & what Ill be up against, so I just thought Id see what the intranets had to say on the subject.

1) You will be facing T4 W2 wound allocated terminators possibly with FNP. S8+, 2+ armor, maybe even FNP. Sounds super tough right?

However, their best INV save vs. shooting is only a 5+. If you can, try to bait him out of cover, either with objective placement, or juicy targets. In cover he has a spell which gives him stealth for a 3+ cover save most of the time. Without cover however, he is in trouble.


2) One model in the unit will have Eternal Warrior and a Storm Shield.

This is Draigo. He has the best chance to take the S8 AP2 hits when you are out of cover, so if you can make sure the unit is taking multiple hits from those weapons. A single meltagun in a squad is not that useful, BUT 3 accurate Lascannon shots from one unit are great.


3) The unit is Several Hundred Points, but NOT fearless

Draigo is fearless, but his unit of Paladins that he is joined to is not, so they loose that USR. They are LD 10, but if you tank shock them with enough chimeras, eventually he will run away. Then as long as something is within 6" they will keep running off the board. Goodbye several hundred points.

You can also try to use the LD bomb spell on the unit, but you need to cast it at the right time, due to multiple layers of Psychic Defense. His dreads have a 12" aura of -4 LD for casting a spell at his units, and his librarian has the standard 24" hood. If he gets out of range of the Dreads and you are more than 24" away, his only defense is -1 LD for casting the spell.


4) Any vehicle [except Chimeras which he probably won't have] will have Fortitude

Basically they take a Psychic Test and they ignore shaken and stunned. Focus fire on each Walker until it is Dead or Weaponless. Each walker will probably have 4 TL S8 shots at 48"


5) Make sure his is casting the right spells at the right time.

There are a TON of GK players who mess this up, because it is a little odd. If he tries to cast any of the below spells at ANY other time, call him out on it.

Quicksilver-Makes his unit INT 10 - Casts at the start of HIS MOVEMENT PHASE. [Before any of his units move] Can not be used if you charge him

Might of Titan- Adds 1 STR and 1D6 armor penetration in close combat- Casts at the start of HIS ASSAULT PHASE [BEFORE assault moves are made] Can not be used if you charge him

Hammerhand- Ads 1 STR in close combat- Casts at the start of ANY COMBAT [your turn or his, AFTER assault moves are made]


Example: You attempt a Tank Shock, and he elects to attempt Death of Glory with a Daemon Hammer. He Cannot cast Hammerhand to make that Hammer S10 instead of S8 as it is not the assault phase.



Also- Hammerhand does stack with other copies of itself, BUT each psyker can only cast it once a Turn. ie. If he has a Librarian that can cast 3 Spells, they must be 3 different spells. If he fails to cast a spell, he cannot try to cast it Again from the same source. he can cast that spell from a different source.

svendrex wrote:1) You will be facing T4 W2 wound allocated terminators possibly with FNP. S8+, 2+ armor, maybe even FNP. Sounds super tough right?

However, their best INV save vs. shooting is only a 5+. If you can, try to bait him out of cover, either with objective placement, or juicy targets. In cover he has a spell which gives him stealth for a 3+ cover save most of the time. Without cover however, he is in trouble.


2) One model in the unit will have Eternal Warrior and a Storm Shield.

This is Draigo. He has the best chance to take the S8 AP2 hits when you are out of cover, so if you can make sure the unit is taking multiple hits from those weapons. A single meltagun in a squad is not that useful, BUT 3 accurate Lascannon shots from one unit are great.


3) The unit is Several Hundred Points, but NOT fearless

Draigo is fearless, but his unit of Paladins that he is joined to is not, so they loose that USR. They are LD 10, but if you tank shock them with enough chimeras, eventually he will run away. Then as long as something is within 6" they will keep running off the board. Goodbye several hundred points.

You can also try to use the LD bomb spell on the unit, but you need to cast it at the right time, due to multiple layers of Psychic Defense. His dreads have a 12" aura of -4 LD for casting a spell at his units, and his librarian has the standard 24" hood. If he gets out of range of the Dreads and you are more than 24" away, his only defense is -1 LD for casting the spell.


4) Any vehicle [except Chimeras which he probably won't have] will have Fortitude

Basically they take a Psychic Test and they ignore shaken and stunned. Focus fire on each Walker until it is Dead or Weaponless. Each walker will probably have 4 TL S8 shots at 48"


5) Make sure his is casting the right spells at the right time.

There are a TON of GK players who mess this up, because it is a little odd. If he tries to cast any of the below spells at ANY other time, call him out on it.

Quicksilver-Makes his unit INT 10 - Casts at the start of HIS MOVEMENT PHASE. [Before any of his units move] Can not be used if you charge him

Might of Titan- Adds 1 STR and 1D6 armor penetration in close combat- Casts at the start of HIS ASSAULT PHASE [BEFORE assault moves are made] Can not be used if you charge him

Hammerhand- Ads 1 STR in close combat- Casts at the start of ANY COMBAT [your turn or his, AFTER assault moves are made]


Example: You attempt a Tank Shock, and he elects to attempt Death of Glory with a Daemon Hammer. He Cannot cast Hammerhand to make that Hammer S10 instead of S8 as it is not the assault phase.



Also- Hammerhand does stack with other copies of itself, BUT each psyker can only cast it once a Turn. ie. If he has a Librarian that can cast 3 Spells, they must be 3 different spells. If he fails to cast a spell, he cannot try to cast it Again from the same source. he can cast that spell from a different source.

most useful. Many thanks.

Protect your melta vents' chimeras well.
That GK player will try to destroy them by his psyflemen.
Use other vehicles or the buildings on the map to give them cover.

svendrex wrote: Lots'o good stuff

This, except one thing: If he's got Draigo, Paladins AND a Librarian at 1500 points, he's not going to have anything else, which means the fight should be a pushover.

I, too, will be facing GK for the first time this week. Something that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is target priority. And I haven't seen anyone mention that big giant dread-thingey.

* The GK psydreads will need to be taken care of. You will need a solution to take care of them at range. While melta-vets are nasty (and they are), they wont do the job alone.

* You might want to consider a 40 man blob squad with 4 LC teams. You can use orders to make them twin-linked, which will shut down/destroy a psydread every round. They also insta-kill paladins

* Paladin lists are generally slow, and he will hunker in cover and try and shoot you to death. Keep making him make those cover saves with melta/lascannons and he will eventually lose the deathstar.

* Sadly your vendettas will get blown out of the sky very quickly by his psydreads. Accept this as a fact

* Psydreads have a very hard time vs AV 14. The 'Russ is actually quite nice in that situation.

Jamumools wrote:With mech guard you presumably have plenty of melta guns? That's all you really need...

and if you aren't? You're silly.

Paladins are actually crap. They drop really easily to lascannon fire and S8AP2 or better will drop 'em every time. Also, don't count out firing small arms at them. remember any wound is better than no wound.