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Is there any reason or rule that states you can't play a skimmer without it's base? I want them as low as possible to the ground and just putting them on the ground of glueing the base directly to the bottom would be ideal.

Rules state that that models must be used with the bases they come with.

Not using you base could be grounds for modeling for an advantage because there is obvious benefits to laying something like a Wave Serpent on the table without a base.

BlueDagger wrote:Rules state that that models must be used with the bases they come with.

Not using you base could be grounds for modeling for an advantage because there is obvious benefits to laying something like a Wave Serpent on the table without a base.

Well I guess what I mean is, skimmers can come with a variety of base heights allowing you to make it as tall or short as you want. Why would gluing it to the base, like any other model, not be ok? It will still be on the base.

There is no clear guideline on the size of the post, so yes you could glue the base to the vehicle with no post, however expect to get flack about it anyone involves a TO.

That is playing with a model, modeled for gaming advantage. 40k uses "true line of sight", if your skimmer is laying on ground, that is an cover/LOS advantage. Ask your local players for their opinion.

dabupp wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:Rules state that that models must be used with the bases they come with.

Not using you base could be grounds for modeling for an advantage because there is obvious benefits to laying something like a Wave Serpent on the table without a base.

Well I guess what I mean is, skimmers can come with a variety of base heights allowing you to make it as tall or short as you want. Why would gluing it to the base, like any other model, not be ok? It will still be on the base.

A flight base is the flat part against the table and the post.

Use the short post and the base and you're fine. Using just the flat part that lies on the table is not using the base as provided.

The other reason I am asking this is because the thing part of the base's never fit my Eldar tanks properly, and they always sagged, as such I had to glue them originally and now many of them have snapped off. I'm getting tired of buying new ones.


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Where can I read the rule about this?

Page 3 says you have to use the base.
Page 71 for skimmer rules referencing the base numerous times.

GW's website to verify that a flight stand is in fact the transparent circle part plus the stand.

rigeld2 wrote:Page 3 says you have to use the base.
Page 71 for skimmer rules referencing the base numerous times.

GW's website to verify that a flight stand is in fact the transparent circle part plus the stand.

It also says "The skimmer's base is effectively ignored" for everything but assaulting, which would make no difference for the Wave-Serpent/Falcon/Etc. I still don't see how you are allowed to choose the height you want, but just having it on the clear base itself would not count as being "glued to the base". Also becuase though you are getting a benefit, you also cannot see over things easily and as such its a given and take.

Are all vehicles considered height 3 still? Or did they get rid of that measurement? Just curious if I can match the height up to my Leman Russ model and call it a day (which would be pretty much glued to the base).

dabupp wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Page 3 says you have to use the base.
Page 71 for skimmer rules referencing the base numerous times.

GW's website to verify that a flight stand is in fact the transparent circle part plus the stand.

It also says "The skimmer's base is effectively ignored" for everything but assaulting, which would make no difference for the Wave-Serpent/Falcon/Etc.

As far as measuring, yes.
For things like Line of Sight, you can't draw LoS to the base (because it's ignored) but the vehicle will be higher than "on the ground".

I still don't see how you are allowed to choose the height you want, but just having it on the clear base itself would not count as being "glued to the base".

You were supplied with multiple heights. You're required to use a base. There's no requirement as to which base.


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dabupp wrote:Also becuase though you are getting a benefit, you also cannot see over things easily and as such its a given and take.

Nine times out of 10, being able to hide a tank is better than it not being able to shoot.

Are all vehicles considered height 3 still? Or did they get rid of that measurement? Just curious if I can match the height up to my Leman Russ model and call it a day (which would be pretty much glued to the base).

Height measurements are gone - everything is True LoS. If you can see it, that's all that matters. Hence the reason the base matters.

rigeld2 wrote:

dabupp wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Page 3 says you have to use the base.
Page 71 for skimmer rules referencing the base numerous times.

GW's website to verify that a flight stand is in fact the transparent circle part plus the stand.

It also says "The skimmer's base is effectively ignored" for everything but assaulting, which would make no difference for the Wave-Serpent/Falcon/Etc.

As far as measuring, yes.
For things like Line of Sight, you can't draw LoS to the base (because it's ignored) but the vehicle will be higher than "on the ground".

I still don't see how you are allowed to choose the height you want, but just having it on the clear base itself would not count as being "glued to the base".

You were supplied with multiple heights. You're required to use a base. There's no requirement as to which base.


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dabupp wrote:Also becuase though you are getting a benefit, you also cannot see over things easily and as such its a given and take.

Nine times out of 10, being able to hide a tank is better than it not being able to shoot.

Are all vehicles considered height 3 still? Or did they get rid of that measurement? Just curious if I can match the height up to my Leman Russ model and call it a day (which would be pretty much glued to the base).

Height measurements are gone - everything is True LoS. If you can see it, that's all that matters. Hence the reason the base matters.

I wish they would FAQ or Errata that the heights actually mattered. I just don't get how you can choose your height but you couldn't choose like a 1cm base or the base the comes on a GJB.

dabupp wrote:I just don't get how you can choose your height but you couldn't choose like a 1cm base or the base the comes on a GJB.

You can't do either of those things because that's not the base that was supplied.
You were supplied with the choice of what, 2 bases (difference being post height)?
Those are your options.

rigeld2 wrote:

dabupp wrote:I just don't get how you can choose your height but you couldn't choose like a 1cm base or the base the comes on a GJB.

You can't do either of those things because that's not the base that was supplied.
You were supplied with the choice of what, 2 bases (difference being post height)?
Those are your options.

So the fact that the this is never brought up in the big book (the height of the base) or never clarified means nothing? RAW is I just have to have it glued to the base, no?

dabupp wrote:RAW rule is I have to have it glued to the base, no?

Yes.
And Flight bases (what skimmers use) include the post.

rigeld2 wrote:

dabupp wrote:RAW rule is I have to have it glued to the base, no?

Yes.
And Flight bases (what skimmers use) include the post.

Where is that clarified?


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Also some googling has found most people say that you can change the height to a minimum of just the base itself. You have to understand though that you are penalizing yourself as you will not be able to shoot under-neath the Skimmer anymore due to LOS. *shrug* And that was found looking for tournament rulings on the matter.

dabupp wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

dabupp wrote:RAW rule is I have to have it glued to the base, no?

Yes.
And Flight bases (what skimmers use) include the post.

Where is that clarified?

Go to GWs site and buy flight bases.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also some googling has found most people say that you can change the height to a minimum of just the base itself. You have to understand though that you are penalizing yourself as you will not be able to shoot under-neath the Skimmer anymore due to LOS. *shrug* And that was found looking for tournament rulings on the matter.

Sure - the TO can make whatever rulings he wants. You're asking in YMDC which debates RAW.

Skimmer bases come in 2 parts, the disk and the stand. You have some leeway choosing which stand to use.

rigeld2 wrote:

dabupp wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

dabupp wrote:RAW rule is I have to have it glued to the base, no?

Yes.
And Flight bases (what skimmers use) include the post.

Where is that clarified?

Go to GWs site and buy flight bases.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also some googling has found most people say that you can change the height to a minimum of just the base itself. You have to understand though that you are penalizing yourself as you will not be able to shoot under-neath the Skimmer anymore due to LOS. *shrug* And that was found looking for tournament rulings on the matter.

Sure - the TO can make whatever rulings he wants. You're asking in YMDC which debates RAW.

If I'm going off RAW, than I will be going off "The skimmer's base is effectively ignored, except when assaulting a skimmer, in which case models may move into contact with vehicle's hull, it's base or both. Considering everything but Jetbikes and Vypers cover their base with the hull, I see it as insignificant. I still have a base on it, and it is glued down according to the other RAW rules. Until 6th Edition (where hopefully they address it directly) I see no RAW that would effectively invalidate this thinking at all. *shrug* Thank you for the helpful pages in the rulebook though, as that was most importantly what I was looking for.

The rulebook doesn't outlaw Modeling For Advantage at all. It is perfectly within the rules to modify your models to gain in-game advantages.

But, almost everyone views this as entirely against the spirit of the rules. People will refuse to play you, and tournaments will disqualify you.

Stick them on the bases they were meant to be on. If them breaking off is a problem (I play Eldar, I know your pain), simply make the hole in the bottom of the vehicle a bit larger so that you can fit a bit more of the flight stand inside.

dabupp wrote:If I'm going off RAW, than I will be going off "The skimmer's base is effectively ignored, except when assaulting a skimmer, in which case models may move into contact with vehicle's hull, it's base or both.

Yes - the base is ignored.

You're missing the fact that even the short post adds height which is NOT ignored.

A TO or your buddies can rule what they like. The RAW says you need the posts.

Grakmar wrote:But, almost everyone views this as entirely against the spirit of the rules. People will refuse to play you, and tournaments will disqualify you.

And ultimately, since 40K is a game that you play against other people, this is what matters.

Regardless of what the rules appear to allow here, (and I would disagree that leaving the flight stem off satisfies the requirement to put the model on the base it is supplied with) deliberately lowering the height of your skimmers is going to annoy people, since they're just going to assume that you're doing it to give them a lower LOS profile... and that almost universally makes people grumpy.

Facts:

- Rulebook states to use the base that comes with the model
- The skimmer base comes with post an circle just liek the GW site sells the bases
- The rules state that modeling for advantage is agaisnt the rules
- Having a skimmer on the ground is an advantage for cover
- If your posts are snapping, you can magnetize them and never have to worry about it again.

You may not think that it is a big issue to Model for advantage for your Wave Serpents. However ask someone if they have an issue with a StormRaven glued to it's oval base to get cover all the time when it typically can never get cover without fullouting.

Rulebook is irrelevant...if you try to run a skimmer on a base smaller than the one supplied, your opponent will laugh in your face.

"The skimmer's base is effectively ignored" does not equal "The skimmer's base is removed". Ignoring the base doesn't mean that it goes away, nor does it mean that your skimmer is now laying on the table.

If you look on ebay, you can find metal posts identical the plastic ones, They fit the base and the vehicle and will not break.



http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-1-2-X3-Aluminum-Flight-Stem-Battlefleet-Gothic-40k-/220863297939?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336c7a7993

As most have said, do what you feel but you won't have many people wanting to play you.

The OP seems to fighting tooth and nail to defend his modelling for advantage. Here's a big tip: if you think you are getting away with something, you are.probably doing something you shouldn't. And if women's pulled this on you, how quickly would you cry foul? Especially after you were denied shots due to blocked LOS...

the shortest post is like an inch high, just make everyone that high lol.

I would also like to point out that the base is important for more than los, it's important because it's much harder to end your movement in/on impassable terrain with the flying base than without it. I've seen people using skimmers without bases try and pull all sorts of s**t. In addition to los for those wishing to fire on the skimmer, in the case of skimmer transports, it might mean the difference between being able to target infantry units that disembark and not (completely obscurred). .

There's a company out there that makes attachments for the skimmer bases. They are small metal pieces that glue onto the plastic and glue into the hole of the model then they have sharp teeth that rotate into place and hole the model so that it will not rotate. I forget who makes them but my one friend who plays them had them and suggested I get them for my Tau since my devilfish kept breaking. They really don't add height to the post and if you are that concerned about height the small post is about half an inch I believe shorter than the other one.

Even if there are issues with the base that is sold you are only permitted to change bases if you use a custom base AND you hav your opponent's permission. I have Astorath on a 40 mm base because it is a custom hero base that looks sweet. Now if my opponent has a problem with it I also bring a standard 25 mm base that I can switch him over to to prevent any problems there might be.

Easy solution - if you are set on playing without bases then bring them along so if someone has an issue then you can put them on the bases. Just know that by not using the bases you are in fact going against the rules that state you must use the base that came with the model which is RAW.

Ignoring the base does not say remove the base. If you go by RAW all of your skimmers without a base will be immobilized at the beginning of the game because you remove an immobilized skimmer's base.

That or they are Wrecked.