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FAQ says the following:
"Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special
close combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer) still have
rending attacks? (p34)
A. No. The description of the Thunderwolf mount on
page 62 says that it ‘… has the Rending special rule in
close combat with any attack that does not use a
special close combat weapon’. This applies to
Thunderwolf Cavalry as well (and Canis Wolfborn, for
that matter)."

Now, how does one do that? Canis has a pair of Wolf Claws and base 5 attacks - must he use the Rending rule on all 5 (and lose the benefits of the Wolf Claws) or vice-versa? Or can he split attacks, taking a couple with Wolf Claw rules (power weapon, re-roll To-Hit or To-Wound) and a couple with Rending?

I've seen discussion that a Wolf Lord (for example) with a Frost Blade on a T-wolf must use the frost blade and basically loses the benefit of rending - a list-making choice of sorts, I guess - but I'm curious about Canis as I'm working my way intoa Harald Deathwolf list and plan to put Canis aboard in his role as Wolf Lord's Champion.

Since Canis has the Wolf Claws he must use them. He has no choice. The Rending rule is lost.

The FAQ is basicly saying that Canis and anyone on a Thunderwolf with special combat weapons do NOT get rending attacks.

Only those with a normal CC attack get to benifit from Rending.

Yeah I was confused by this too but I got clearly told at a tournament that special weapons overwrite the rending even though it lists rending in Canis's special rules

starwolf117 wrote:Yeah I was confused by this too but I got clearly told at a tournament that special weapons overwrite the rending even though it lists rending in Canis's special rules

Just like it lists Living Battering Ram in Old One Eye's special rules, but he also has Crushing Claws, so LBR never does anything for him.

Rending is listed in Canis's special rules, so he still has rending as a USR.

It really only matters against vehicles though as his wolf claws already ignore armor saves.

DeathReaper wrote:It really only matters against vehicles though as his wolf claws already ignore armor saves.

Would it apply then? He would still be using his wolf claws even if he gained no benefit.

Because he has Rending listed in his special rules (And not because he is riding a Thunderwolf) he has rending, even though he has Wolf claws.

He gains a benefit by using his wolf claws. They ignore armor saves and can re-roll to hit or to wound, as per the wolf claw rules. and of course any roll of a 6 on the armor penetration roll will roll an additional D3 as per the rending rule.

Edit: Nevermind. Miss-read something.

DeathReaper wrote:Because he has Rending listed in his special rules (And not because he is riding a Thunderwolf) he has rending, even though he has Wolf claws.

He gains a benefit by using his wolf claws. They ignore armor saves and can re-roll to hit or to wound, as per the wolf claw rules. and of course any roll of a 6 on the armor penetration roll will roll an additional D3 as per the rending rule.

The FAQ mentions Canis when saying the Rending doesn't apply to special close combat attacks.

Yes, but that FaQ is specifically addressing Rending because of a Thunderwolf mount.

So Canis does not get rending because of his Thunderwolf mount, but he gets rending because he has the special rule Rending which has nothing to do with him riding a Thunderwolf mount. (Unless the designers intended rending to come from the Thunderwolf mount Canis seems to be a special case, and they do not specify where the rending rule comes from or why he has it.)

Plus Canis does not ride a "Thunderwolf mount" He rides "Fangir" (Which is of course a Thunderwolf)


Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special
close combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer) still have
rending attacks? (p34)
A. No. The description of the Thunderwolf mount on
page 62 says that it ‘… has the Rending special rule in
close combat with any attack that does not use a
special close combat weapon’. This applies to
Thunderwolf Cavalry as well (and Canis Wolfborn, for
that matter)

I think the rending would come from the mount, otherwise mentioning Canis in the FAQ would be pointless.

grendel083 wrote:I think the rending would come from the mount, otherwise mentioning Canis in the FAQ would be pointless.

That is what the FaQ leads us to believe, but the RaW say otherwise.

Canis not getting rending from his TW is fine, since he also has the Rending USR in his special rules.

In that case RaW says he doesn't...

The FAQ says "...and Canis Wolfborn..." mentions nothing about his mount, it names him specifically.

DeathReaper wrote:

grendel083 wrote:I think the rending would come from the mount, otherwise mentioning Canis in the FAQ would be pointless.

That is what the FaQ leads us to believe, but the RaW say otherwise.

Canis not getting rending from his TW is fine, since he also has the Rending USR in his special rules.

TWC also have the Rending USR in their rules, the only difference being the brackets beside them. There is nothing there that states this comes from their mounts, similarly to Canis. However, the FAQ states that they do not get their rending attacks if they wield special weapons, despite the USR being present in their list of Special Rules, since according to the FAQ it comes from their mount. How is Canis able to able to bypass this?

DeathReaper wrote:
That is what the FaQ leads us to believe, but the RaW say otherwise.

GW have an annoying habit of making FAQs that are actually counter to RAW. As far as I know every TO will go with the FAQ version.

DeathReaper wrote:

grendel083 wrote:I think the rending would come from the mount, otherwise mentioning Canis in the FAQ would be pointless.

That is what the FaQ leads us to believe, but the RaW say otherwise.

Canis not getting rending from his TW is fine, since he also has the Rending USR in his special rules.

I think the FAQ is quite clearly attempting to clarify that Canis' rending works the same as for other Twolf riders. It could have been clearer, granted.

insaniak wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

grendel083 wrote:I think the rending would come from the mount, otherwise mentioning Canis in the FAQ would be pointless.

That is what the FaQ leads us to believe, but the RaW say otherwise.

Canis not getting rending from his TW is fine, since he also has the Rending USR in his special rules.

I think the FAQ is quite clearly attempting to clarify that Canis' rending works the same as for other Twolf riders. It could have been clearer, granted.

I agree that "the FAQ is quite clearly attempting to clarify that Canis' rending works the same as for other Twolf riders."

I also agree that "It could have been clearer"

Though "Thunderwolf Cavalry" do not have Thunderwolf mounts, as that is not listed in their wargear. (Though they do make reference to 'Thunderwolf rider' in the options section).

But that is clearly the Strict RaW interpretation, and should not be used. Though it would be fun to model the TWC as werewolves in Crinos form charging across the battlefield!

Imagine these guys in Power armor charging at you, scary stuff!

Makes sense that the special weapon thing would override the rending rule - I guess it's a forced decision of which you'd want more and thus how you equip the TWC. Seems a waste to list it on Canis, though, if it never comes into play (not that there's anything wrong with Wolf Claws, mind you! )

Canis does not...
both the Thunderwolf Calv and Canis have the rending special rule listed in their profile so there is no diffrence, so that means Canis himself does not have Rending, he gets it from his mount as well.

arch1angel wrote:Canis does not...
both the Thunderwolf Calv and Canis have the rending special rule listed in their profile so there is no diffrence, so that means Canis himself does not have Rending, he gets it from his mount as well.

Except that Canis does not ride a Thunderwolf Mount, as listed on Page 62, as a TWM is not listed in his wargear, He rides Fangir, and I do not see the rules for Fangir, except on Canis's page.

DeathReaper wrote:Except that Canis does not ride a Thunderwolf Mount, as listed on Page 62, as a TWM is not listed in his wargear, He rides Fangir, and I do not see the rules for Fangir, except on Canis's page.

TWM is not listed for Thunderwolf Cavalry either. But the FAQ clearly lists the three things effected: Thunderwolf Mount, Thunderwolf Cavalry AND Canis Wolfborn.

It's not just the wargear, it names the cavalry, it names Canis.

Personally I'd like Canis to have rending, I've used him in the past and he rocks. But quite clearly he doesn't get to use it.

As I said before:
I agree that "the FAQ is quite clearly attempting to clarify that Canis' rending works the same as for other Twolf riders."

But the RAW is ambiguous.

Q. Does a Thunderwolf Cavalry model with a special
close combat weapon (eg a thunder hammer) still have
rending attacks? (p34)
A. No. The description of the Thunderwolf mount on
page 62 says that it ‘… has the Rending special rule in
close combat with any attack that does not use a
special close combat weapon’. This applies to
Thunderwolf Cavalry as well (and Canis Wolfborn, for
that matter).

I see no question over Canis getting rending attacks, RAW are fairly clear. It's not attempting, it is stating clearly. It may be an afterthought but it is clear to me.
I am not sure if such a piece of wargear or a rule exists that doesn't allow you to use special weapons against a model in cc but unless such a situation arose then you do not have rending with Canis.

DeathReaper wrote:Except that Canis does not ride a Thunderwolf Mount, as listed on Page 62, as a TWM is not listed in his wargear, He rides Fangir, and I do not see the rules for Fangir, except on Canis's page.

And Terminators don't wear Terminator Armour

Ghaz wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Except that Canis does not ride a Thunderwolf Mount, as listed on Page 62, as a TWM is not listed in his wargear, He rides Fangir, and I do not see the rules for Fangir, except on Canis's page.

And Terminators don't wear Terminator Armour

Exactly my point. they need to list all of the wargear in the wargear section. That would make things clear.

Ghaz wrote:And Terminators don't wear Terminator Armour

But Terminators do have terminator armor listed as wargear. Whereas Canis apparently does not have TWM listed in his wargear. So not entirely sure what you're getting at Ghaz?

Edit: Oh wait, you're probably talking about Terminators in the Space Wolves codes (which I do not have.) Ignore me.

Actually I believe it was in a previous incarnation of Codex Space Marines.

My question is where in the rules are you required to use your special weapon. Sure they cant use their special weapons and the rending at the same time but why cant they pick which they will use if they are attacking a tank or men.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think they were just trying to stop people from getting rerolls to hit from their wolf claws well also getting the rending. Or when using their Str modding weapons for that matter.

Page 42. They have a normal and a special, or 2 specials, and you follow the rules there. No allowance to use your "normal" weapon with Rending attached