People who act like they know everything about the fluff

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**PresidentOfAsia**

Do you guys know anybody at your gaming store that acts like some sort of fluff experts but in reality they actually don't and makes a HUGE amount assumptions?

One guy at my store, though a long time player(started in like 3rd or 4th edition) acts as some sort of fluff expert and tells people a lot of wrong, outdated or unsubstantiated claims
For example he said that after the Soulstorm Campaign, all of the Imperial guard regiments invovled were executed and destroyed cause they knew what chaos was

Also he said that if a Imperial Guard regiments finds out what the concept of Chaos is, they will be destroyed

In addition, he has said the regiment in Retribution IG campaign was executed off screen at the ending

**Milisim**

Only Mat Ward knows all the fluff................

**Fifty**

I can't say anything about the Soulstorm Campaign - I don't even know what it is, but it is a long established piece of fluff that if an IG regiment finds out about Chaos, they all get executed, just in case. Not so sure that fluff has really been kept going, but it certainly was the case when the Realms of Chaos books were still in print, many years ago when I was but a youngster, and it stayed in the fluff through 2nd Ed. Your man has at least some basis in solid fluff, however antiquated it may be.

**PresidentOfAsia**

Fifty wrote:I can't say anything about the Soulstorm Campaign - I don't even know what it is, but it is a long established piece of fluff that if an IG regiment finds out about Chaos, they all get executed, just in case. Not so sure that fluff has really been kept going, but it certainly was the case when the Realms of Chaos books were still in print, many years ago when I was but a youngster, and it stayed in the fluff through 2nd Ed. Your man has at least some basis in solid fluff, however antiquated it may be.

Then how does the Tanith First and Only, The Vitrian Dragoons and many other regiments get away with the knowledge after the battle on Fortis Binary? In fact how did the Tanith First and Only get away with knowing about Chaos after the destruction of the home planet? In the book it seemed very well established that the regiment knew they were fighting Chaos; hell they even went amongst the tainted facilities to destroy Chaos Icons

In additon, Commissar Cain and many members of IG have the knowledge of Chaos as well

**SoloFalcon1138**

Milisim wrote:Only Mat Ward knows all the fluff................

For the second time in two days... *sigh*

Please stop the Matt Ward crap.

**Zweischneid**

PresidentOfAsia wrote:
Fifty wrote:I can't say anything about the Soulstorm Campaign - I don't even know what it is, but it is a long established piece of fluff that if an IG regiment finds out about Chaos, they all get executed, just in case. Not so sure that fluff has really been kept going, but it certainly was the case when the Realms of Chaos books were still in print, many years ago when I was but a youngster, and it stayed in the fluff through 2nd Ed. Your man has at least some basis in solid fluff, however antiquated it may be.

Then how does the Tanith First and Only, The Vitrian Dragoons and many other regiments get away with the knowledge after the battle on Fortis Binary? In fact how did the Tanith First and Only get away with knowing about Chaos after the destruction of the home planet? In the book it seemed very well established that the regiment knew they were fighting Chaos; hell they even went amongst the tainted facilities to destroy Chaos Icons

In additon, Commissar Cain and many members of IG have the knowledge of Chaos as well

A) Because Black Library is not GW-main. They do things differently.

B) Because GW-fluff (much less offshoots like BL, FW) is not internally consistent.

C) Because stuff like "IG regiments get executed for knowing about Chaos" will be the sort of things you will find, by and large, in Chaos Codexes and books (which mean to make Chaos look more awsome), while Tanith First and Only, etc.. and other "heroic" IG guys who stood successfully against Chaos will be the sort of thing you will find, by and large, in IG Codexes and books (which mean to make IG look more awsome).

**ZebioLizard2**

Remember that all the fluff is filtered through biased sources. It's why we sometimes get "Marines fight in squads and get overwhelmed by orks!" vs "A SINGLE MARINE CAN KILL TWENTY THOUSAND ORKS IN A SINGLE BATTLE"

Or the Eldar Dark Reaper Exarch being able to take on an ENTIRE PLANET OF NIDS that's actively being attacked by a splinter fleet. .

**LunaHound**

PresidentOfAsia wrote:Do you guys know anybody at your gaming store that acts like some sort of fluff experts but in reality they actually don't and makes a HUGE amount assumptions?

One guy at my store, though a long time player(started in like 3rd or 4th edition) acts as some sort of fluff expert and tells people a lot of wrong, outdated or unsubstantiated claims
For example he said that after the Soulstorm Campaign, all of the Imperial guard regiments invovled were executed and destroyed cause they knew what chaos was

Also he said that if a Imperial Guard regiments finds out what the concept of Chaos is, they will be destroyed

In addition, he has said the regiment in Retribution IG campaign was executed off screen at the ending

I can think of 2 obvious people that are on dakka that are like that.
One I cannot name because I'll get in trouble
2nd one he is banned and on his alt account causing trouble again.

**SagesStone**

But I thought we weren't allowed alts...

Knowing all the fluff only really does one thing; makes you realise every race ever is the best and allows you to know mundane facts like the Land Raider and Land Speeder are named as such due to their STC being discovered by Magos Arkhan Land. Also that technoarchaeologist (he was both that and a Magos) sounds like a cool job. But, that's even without not knowing it all...

**TheCrazyCryptek**

The fluff isn't consistant, its that simply. After the First War for Armageddon, all of the IG regiments that survived where rounded up, sterilized and force to work the rest of their lives in labor camps. Whereas the Valhallan 597th(in a Ciaphas Cain novel) fights in a demonic incursion and nothing happens to them. I guess its just depends on how disposable that regiment is concerning GW / Black Libraries wallet.

When it comes to someone who acts like a lore master, I'd just ask to see his sources. If he can't prove it and you make it a point you don't care unless he can prove it, maybe he will shut up lol.

**pgmason**

With regard to imperial forces being executed/sterilised whatever after witnessing daemonic phenomena - itspretty well established. However that doesn't mean it happens every time or right away. In the case of the regiments taking part in the Sabbat Worlds crusade - the war is still ongoing after 20+ years. It's entirely possible that when the crusade is finally over the majority of forces involved will be executed, or at least isolated in the Sabbat Worlds region to prevent any corruption or taint from spreading back into the general population.

**Hlaine Larkin mk2**

well the Tanith are part of a crusade to take back a sector of chaos controlled space...........

The cadians also know about chaos as do many regiments involved in protracted engagements with chaotic forces

I think that fluff wasn't carried past 2nd ed for a reason

**Joey**

pgmason wrote:With regard to imperial forces being executed/sterilised whatever after witnessing daemonic phenomena - itspretty well established. However that doesn't mean it happens every time or right away. In the case of the regiments taking part in the Sabbat Worlds crusade - the war is still ongoing after 20+ years. It's entirely possible that when the crusade is finally over the majority of forces involved will be executed, or at least isolated in the Sabbat Worlds region to prevent any corruption or taint from spreading back into the general population.

And of course, twenty billion highly experienced soldiers would be easy to kill.
The fluff in the OP is gobshite. If Imperial Guard regiments were being slaughtered en-masse there'd be a huge mutiny.

**Von Chogg**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Remember that all the fluff is filtered through biased sources. It's why we sometimes get "Marines fight in squads and get overwhelmed by orks!" vs "A SINGLE MARINE CAN KILL TWENTY THOUSAND ORKS IN A SINGLE BATTLE"

Or the Eldar Dark Reaper Exarch being able to take on an ENTIRE PLANET OF NIDS that's actively being attacked by a splinter fleet. .

It was the Dark Reaper Phoenix Lord who beat back a splinter Hive Fleet himself

Not some random exarch.
Also, it's mentioned in the Tyranid codex, not the Eldar one, so the 'bias' thing doesn't work out really... Maugan Ra is just a BAMF

OT:
The fluff constantly contradicts itself, so it may be that somewhere, your guy is right, but if he says the stuff about IG being executed for knowing chaos; mention the damned Cadian gate! I'm pretty

sure they know who they are fighting. And that's an irrefutable piece of fluff.

Von Chogg

**Hazardous Harry**

I think people are confusing "Know the NATURE of Chaos" and "Knowing about chaos and fighting it's minions."

If an Imperial Guard regiment somehow came to understand the true and terrible nature of the Chaos Gods, which is generally what happens when reality itself is kicked in the face and massive daemonic forces appear on your planet, then it's not inconceivable that the IG would be destroyed after the battle rather than run the risk of corruption.
Armageddon was slightly different, it was not so much the nature of the enemy (being Chaos) that required the clean-up afterwards but the fact that Angron was found to be very much alive and kicking. It would be like discovering that the Archangel Michael actually got his arse handed to him and the daemon that defeated him is still a very real threat. That might warrant a cover up.
Killing some cultists and dismissing them and weak fools? Not so much.

**Tibbsy**

Joey wrote:
pgmason wrote:With regard to imperial forces being executed/sterilised whatever after witnessing daemonic phenomena - itspretty well established. However that doesn't mean it happens every time or right away. In the case of the regiments taking part in the Sabbat Worlds crusade - the war is still ongoing after 20+ years. It's entirely possible that when the crusade is finally over the majority of forces involved will be executed, or at least isolated in the Sabbat Worlds region to prevent any corruption or taint from spreading back into the general population.

And of course, twenty billion highly experienced soldiers would be easy to kill.
The fluff in the OP is gobshite. If Imperial Guard regiments were being slaughtered en-masse there'd be a huge mutiny.

The fluff in the OP is actual fluff, if maybe a little out-dated. I am certain I've seen it before. I also don't think it's been ret-conned either (not completely at any rate.)

When it comes to executing entire regiments it's not normally just 'cause they fought some Chaos dudes. Harry has it right above I think that the minions are of no real consequence. I think it tended to happen more when the regiment in question was attached to the Ordo Malleus for specific missions (This is back before Grey Knights became common as muck

) I seem to remember that occasionally, these missions would involve trips to very heavily-corrupted worlds, or even Daemon worlds in the Eye of Terror. Only the Grey Knights (what few there were) would be expected to survive. Guardsmen that did were too dangerous to release into the Imperium at large due to the possibilty of corruption so they were executed and the regiment listed as destroyed in action.

Essentially, it's only something that Malleus Inquisitors would do, and then only for MAJOR Chaotic incidents.

**Hazardous Harry**

Tibbsy wrote:*snip*

Pretty much. I can only think of one exception, which is the Battle for the Tetriarchal Palace, on the home planet of Mordia. The Mordian regiments faced down a full-scale daemon incursion, holding the chaos hordes back until reinforcements finally broke the incursion. It was an old piece of fluff, but another mention of it was made in the recent IG codex. No mention of any purge or cover-up was made in either source.

Same goes for the Tallarn and their alliance with the Eldar (though that is old fluff).

**Tibbsy**

Hazardous Harry wrote:
Tibbsy wrote:*snip*

Pretty much. I can only think of one exception, which is the Battle for the Tetriarchal Palace, on the home planet of Mordia. The Mordian regiments faced down a full-scale daemon incursion, holding the chaos hordes back until reinforcements finally broke the incursion. It was an old piece of fluff, but another mention of it was made in the recent IG codex. No mention of any purge or cover-up was made in either source.

Same goes for the Tallarn and their alliance with the Eldar (though that is old fluff).

I remember that fluff... I have the old WDs somewhere... I'm so going to have to dig them out

They might have been major incursions, but IIRC I don't think the Inquisition was involved to initiate any kind of purge. I doubt anyone else would have the authority to do that. At least, there was no mention of any Inquisitors, but it's the Imperial Inquisition. Nobody suspects the Imperial Inquisition...

**Hazardous Harry**

So just remember kids, there are posers who pretend to know the fluff to come across as cool, suave and a bottomless pit of knowledge in all things 40k.

Spoiler:

Be careful to see the difference between the two.

**Portugal Jones**

Tibbsy wrote:The fluff in the OP is actual fluff, if maybe a little out-dated. I am certain I've seen it before. I also don't think it's been ret-conned either (not completely at any rate.)

It's not just retconned, it's no longer in the canon at all. It's pretty funny that you and other people in this thread are making the exact same mistake that the guy mentioned in the OP did. Back in the days of yore, the Horus Hersey was something mentioned in regards to background events, but not completely fleshed out (and both Imperial and Heretical forces made extensive use of war robots during the siege of Terra in order to limit human casualties. The Ultramarine's chief librarian also used to be half-Eldar). The depiction of Chaos was much different too. When a full blown forces of Chaos incursion was something encountered rarely, then it was appropriately gritty and grimdark! that even if they won, surviving Imperial forces would be executed because to know of Chaos was to spread it's taint, and even involved space marines were subjected to complete mind wipes.

As the background was more developed and the forces of Chaos were brought to the fore, not even grimdark! was able to save that bit of background, because once you started having great crusades against the forces of disorder, and half the space marines turning traitor to serve it, Chaos being a great big secret that no one could know about stopped working as a story element and was quickly forgotten.

**Vampirate of Sartosa**

Hazardous Harry wrote:So just remember kids, there are posers who pretend to know the fluff to come across as cool, suave and a bottomless pit of knowledge in all things 40k.

Spoiler:

Then there are people like me and Tibbsy, who really are cool, sauve and bottomless pits of knowledge in all things 40k.

Be careful to see the difference between the two.

Seems legit.

**Hazardous Harry**

Portugal Jones wrote:*snip*

I'd advise you to take a quick looksie at the rest of the thread.

**Joey**

Tibbsy wrote:
Joey wrote:
pgmason wrote:With regard to imperial forces being executed/sterilised whatever after witnessing daemonic phenomena - itspretty well established. However that doesn't mean it happens every time or right away. In the case of the regiments taking part in the Sabbat Worlds crusade - the war is still ongoing after 20+ years. It's entirely possible that when the crusade is finally over the majority of forces involved will be executed, or at least isolated in the Sabbat Worlds region to prevent any corruption or taint from spreading back into the general population.

And of course, twenty billion highly experienced soldiers would be easy to kill.
The fluff in the OP is gobshite. If Imperial Guard regiments were being slaughtered en-masse there'd be a huge mutiny.

The fluff in the OP is actual fluff, if maybe a little out-dated. I am certain I've seen it before. I also don't think it's been ret-conned either (not completely at any rate.)

When it comes to executing entire regiments it's not normally just 'cause they fought some Chaos dudes. Harry has it right above I think that the minions are of no real consequence. I think it tended to happen more when the regiment in question was attached to the Ordo Malleus for specific missions (This is back before Grey Knights became common as muck ) I seem to remember that occasionally, these missions would involve trips to very heavily-corrupted worlds, or even Daemon worlds in the Eye of Terror. Only the Grey Knights (what few there were) would be expected to survive. Guardsmen that did were too dangerous to release into the Imperium at large due to the possibilty of corruption so they were executed and the regiment listed as destroyed in action.

Essentially, it's only something that Malleus Inquisitors would do, and then only for MAJOR Chaotic incidents.

That's much more rational. I'm sure I've heard people on here claim that even SEEING a demon is a guarenteed execution. That would just be rediculous.

**Fifty**

Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, published 1988: wrote:

Page 247:

The Ordo Malleus
Other Units

Only the Grey Knights survive in the service of the Ordo. All otehr troops die when given over to them. The reason for non-survival among military troops attached to the Ordo Malleus is simple. Any troops that an Inquisitor Ordinary has commanded have been exposed to Daemons. They are pirvy to one of the most closely-guarded Imperial secrets; That Daemons exist and Chaos is a terrible threat. Those that survive a battle or campaign are executed, with full honours, shortly afterwards. They are expendable, and entire Imperial regiments and corps have been dispatched by the Ordo Malleus.

The most notable exception was at the end of the Nexxas Exculpation (M40.561). An incursion by Traitor Legionnaires of the Emperor's Children was opposed by a complete Imperial Army corps. Once the invasion had been beaten off, the corps was destroyed by orbital bombardment from an Ordo warship. The Imperial records were altered to show that a renegade force of Eldar was responsible for the destruction of the unit.

The only general exception to this policy of secrecy-by-extermination are Adeptus Astartes units. Execution of a marine is seen as wasteful. Marine units are mindscrubbed rather than killed - their memories destroyed rather than their bodies. Mindscrubbing removes any and all memories of the Ordo's true purpose, but it requires its victims to be completely retrained. Mindscrubbed marines cannot even feed themselves, let alone fight for the Imperium.

Now, as there is no "official "GW canon anyway, it can't have become non-canon. It has, I agree, been superceded by lots of fluff which shows exceptions, but the basis for it is there in black-and-white, and nothing from GW has ever said it is wrong. It probably is wrong, but making statements about what is and is not canon makes you look as bad as people who try to claim that this came first, so it is correct. GW fluff is widely self-contradictory, and this is just another example of that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I decided to type up another fun bit of fluff from WD99 that definietly has been superceded...

WD99, page 79 wrote:

Chaos in the Forty-First Millenium

During the thirty-first millenium, ten thousand years ago, the Emperor faced and defeated the forces of Warmaster Horus after a long and bloody conflict referred to by historians as the Inter-legionary Wars. Space Marine battled Space Marine for control of the galaxy. In the end, the Emperor won, although he was so severely weakened that he was renderred physically immobile. Warmaster Horus, once the most trusted of all the Emperor's servants, was banished with his rebel legions (now termed the Treacher Legions).

Also in this fluff, the Treacher Legions died out, but their descendants have carried on the fight.

**Harriticus**

The whole "x Regiment found out about Chaos so were eliminated by the Inquisition" is applying a universal standard to a precedent seen in the First Armageddon War where that indeed did happen.

But really since the Imperium fights Chaos so frequently on varying levels it'd be militarily infeasible to maintain this doctrine for each and every case. My guess is you can apply it to instances of large Daemonic incursions (which are relatively rare) over fighting cultists or what have you.

**Tibbsy**

I haven't ever actually read the Realm of Chaos books... But I KNEW those sneaky Inquisitors would be involved somehow

Even if it has, as some people maintain, been ret-conned - Individual Inquisitors vary massively in doctrine and temperament. So whilst a regiment that fights Daemons alongside one Inquisitor might get psychically screened for purity afterwards and let go; another, more hard-line Inquisitor might just kill them all to save them the bother.

**AegisGrimm**

I sometimes thnk that GW wants to exist in some sort of "fluff bubble" where the only canon fluff is from about three-five years previous to the current year.

Everything previous to that bubble they seem to either ret-con or say is no longer canon, which to me is a sign of horrible writing. It's really just catering to what they want to sell at the moment, because any fluff that would hurt the 'cool-ness' factor of the new army get's canned.

Unfortunately, every year forward is a year left behind.

**Fifty**

Harriticus wrote:The whole "x Regiment found out about Chaos so were eliminated by the Inquisition" is applying a universal standard to a precedent seen in the First Armageddon War where that indeed did happen.

No it isn't. I just posted where the fluff comes from, and Realm of Chaos was well before Armageddon, so Armageddon can't be the precedent.

**salix_fatuus**

Hehe reminds me of one time when I was in an official GW store (this was 2weeks before DE codex came out) and the store "owner" was telling a kid and his mom about how the IG aspired to become Space Marines and if they were proven brave and true they would eventually be allowed to become one.
He even said that Space Marines were some sort of special force of the IG.
I stood there listening for about 5-10mins and he was just wrong from start to finish.
Even the other guy who worked in the store looked at me and just shook his head.

**Ulthanashville**

A guy whom I've gamed with, who has an eidetic memory, does know all the fluff that HE'S read to the last detail. But even he would admit he doesn't know all the fluff, because he hasn't read everything.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an afterthought PresidentOfAsia, why not have a t-shirt printed for this guy that reads "LADIES! I know every imaginary event in the imaginary history of an imaginary universe. SHA-WING!" or something similar. Then invite him to wear it out for drinks. I bet you he doesn't.