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I was just thinking, Space Marine chapters pull recruits from assorted places, and these people they take are usually teenage to 20s? Has there ever been a case of a particularly outstanding guardsman being selected to become a Space Marine? Could it happen? What is your verdict Dakka?

Ahem....
Yes.
(References (Codex Space Marines 1st,2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, Dawn of War, Horus Heresy, Ultramar, Blood Ravens, etc. The list is quite large. Some Guardsmen are teens.)

I guess it could happen. Why not?

Ah, yes thank you. It was just a random question that popped into my head did think to look there

Especially for chapters like the Ultramarines who are supported by large formations of auxillaries. Promotion to the ultramarines might be a natural step for particularly meritorious service.

I don't generally read Space Marine books so I won't be much help. I know it's never happened in an Imperial Guard book.



If it did happen if would have to be while the "guardsman" is still extremely young. I can't see it happening to a veteran of decade-long campaigns.

Unless the Guardsmen in question is an adolescent male, it couldn't happen.

There are IG youth formations, like the Cadian white shields.

GreatGunz wrote:There are IG youth formations, like the Cadian white shields.

Correction Cadian Meat Shields.

I highly doubt space marines would take from the PDF at all. Most Likely from the Guardsmen.
If they fight side by side with a space marines squad they might get recruited. You know if they chuck a grenade that landed right next to the captain. Yes that would make a space marine.

Sure. It's not standard recruiting techniques but hey. It's a big galaxy.

There have been adults taken into space marine chapters before, its just rare and often fatal for the subject, and would have to happen in very special circumstances or in a deviant chapter (and goodness knows there are plenty of those that are still in fairly good standing with the Lords of Terra).

Yeah, the recruits need to be young adolecent boys (12-14 years) otherwise they risk mutation, or rejecting the implants, longer recovery times ect.

Long story short, it is highly unlikely, but not impossible.

As far as I know, the process of physical alteration requires that the subject be a pre-teen. The implants must be in place before the adolescent growth spurt.

It's 40k, anythings possible.

As stated previously they would have to be young. I imagine that older guardsmen will object to having their balls cut off.

Barksdale wrote:As stated previously they would have to be young. I imagine that older guardsmen will object to having their balls cut off.

Haha agreed. If i recall correctly the fluff contradicts itself a lot on the subject no ? SW recruit adult males, but the MEC codex states that the subject must be preteen or something along these lines.

In 30k alot of the followers of the primarchs turn into space marines. I got the impression that there was an upper age limit, but more in the area of 25 than 15, just by reading some of those stories. I mean if only boys could join then none of Lionel's questing knights could have become Dark Angels, or Russ's vikings space wolves, etc.

That was Gene-tech in its prime though, Emperor still around and all that. Id imagine the process has degraded some in the 10k plus years. Maybe original legion chapters can still do it, but id be iffy on the successors.

according to the oldest Russ stories, he basically made his first space wolves out of the adult men that had fought with him through thick and thin for several years/decades. It was highly risky for them to do it but some numbers of them survived the process and may possibly even still exist wandering around the warp somewhere with Russ. (see spacewolves 2nd omnibus)

Well ofcourse it's all been downhill ever since Horus died.... Once the guiding genius of the Imperium was no more, things naturally started to fall apart.

One of the pivotal parts written down in the Codex Astartes are also the "guidelines" on "making Marines". At the height of the Heresy, many Legions were turning just about anything and everything into Marines at breathneck rates to keep up with casulties. The result was geneseed corruption, degradation, unstable Marines and general mayhem (Chaos loved it). Operational doctrines and the splitting of the legions were not the only parts.

So like alot of things (my guess that is), turning older people into Marines might be technically possible (especially with the right equipment). Codex-adherent chapters at least, however, might not do it because the "holy text" says it's bad and leads to corruption and mentally less stable (or less indoctrinated if you wanna play it grim-dark) Marines.

About Space Wolves, not only the original Russ' retinue, but Godsmothe was also inducted while an adult after fleein' with Kasper Hawser from his village.

the Space wolves might, i never really noticed an age restriction on their "greatest warriors/wrestlers" criteria....marbo becoming a space puppy...goooo ooonnnn

Can't, only fenrisian human stock can get the Canis Helix in them, but aye, they pick up the valiant (and not all need to be in a near death status, if in the fight you killed and killed and killed fiercely and still you keep yourself on your feet, you're good to go as well)

The earliest fluff indicated that the first phases of the process begin between 10-14. How late they can happen has never been nailed down, but presumably, the later the worse.

IIRC, in the Dark Angels Horus Heresy book, Luther was made into a kind of pseudo-Astartes - more than human, but not fully Space Marine either. He had most of the implants, but not all, and his physical size and strength was not increased as much as younger marines. I'd check, but that particular Horus Heresy book was awful, and I do not want to revisit it.

Anyway, maybe that is the answer - it can be done once you are older, but is less and less effective the later you leave it.

As stated previously they would have to be young. I imagine that older guardsmen will object to having their balls cut off.

I'm not sure where that myth ever got started. I've never once heard it mentioned in any fluff whatsoever. Plus, if you were castrated you would never make a good marine. That's where a good deal of the male hormones are produced, so the biotech that the Imperium implants and uses to make a SM wouldn't have much to interact with. Without those hormones, you can't even reach normal male size and strength, much less to the massive level of an Astartes.

That is why they have to be young in the first place, so the main implants can be in place before the largest changes of puberty happen, so that they can ramp up those changes even more.

AegisGrimm wrote:

As stated previously they would have to be young. I imagine that older guardsmen will object to having their balls cut off.

I'm not sure where that myth ever got started. I've never once heard it mentioned in any fluff whatsoever. Plus, if you were castrated you would never make a good marine. That's where a good deal of the male hormones are produced, so the biotech that the Imperium implants and uses to make a SM wouldn't have much to interact with. Without those hormones, you can't even reach normal male size and strength, much less to the massive level of an Astartes.

That is why they have to be young in the first place, so the main implants can be in place before the largest changes of puberty happen, so that they can ramp up those changes even more.

This is what it all hinges upon. The body accepting or rejecting the implants. The body does not naturally accept additions to the body from external sources - this is why transplants in our current day can be very tricky, in case the body rejects them - yes the implant may save & improve the persons life but their body bodesn't recognise it as being their own (more or less) and thus might fight back. It's one of the awesome things about the human body.

Therefore, with regards to massive alteration in physical state from regular human to Astartes, it is best if the body is young & changing naturally as it may more readily accept the implants, plus psychologically the childs mind can be shaped so that they become the fearless killing machine they need to become.

I do remember that fluff about Russ and his followers from Fenris. They were adult males and were warned of the risks, but being Fenrisian and all, they decided "screw it!" and every man opted for the procedure. Most died, but a good number did make it through and become marines.

I imagine that once you've already been through puberty, all your growth plates are set, and your body's ability to repair damage has started to diminish, you would encounter all kinds of risks and difficulties. Not to mention that even at the optimum age, after candidates are carefully screened for genetic compatibility, a lot of them STILL die in the process.

For an example of the weirdness that would probably go on, check out the difference between gigantism (excessive growth hormone in children) and acromegaly (excessive growth hormone in adulthood). From my understanding, gigantism turns you into a more or less normally-proportioned giant because everything in your body is experiencing a growth spurt at the same time. On the other hand, acromegaly causes abnormal proportions because only certain bones, or certain parts of certain bones, can still grow; others are already set in their size. Complications due to problems like that are likely what make it undesirable to create marines from adults.

sudojoe wrote:according to the oldest Russ stories, he basically made his first space wolves out of the adult men that had fought with him through thick and thin for several years/decades. It was highly risky for them to do it but some numbers of them survived the process and may possibly even still exist wandering around the warp somewhere with Russ. (see spacewolves 2nd omnibus)

As I understand it, Russ's boys and the Questing Knights turned Dark Agnels were never 'true' Marines, and in some cases were the source of internal tension as they held rank over the Astartes themselves without actually being Astartes or Primarch. Also, IIRC, the older/original veteran Terran Marines that formed the original Legions were not these true Astartes either, as they were made without the Primarchs gene-seed.

Well, veterans from the Unification Wars would have been Thunder Warriors or some other proto-Astartes, but any Terran marines made specifically for the Crusade would have been full-fledged Astartes. The technique was already worked out when the Emperor was building his forces up for the Crusade itself, and he didn't need the primarchs to physically be there to make marines. He already had what he needed for that from the original primarch project, which is where the geneseed for marines was derived anyway.