Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

part 1 of this update is going to be the Deathwing, as normal comments are welcome

Codex Dark angels


Universal rules
Stubborn, ATSKNF. prefered enemy, fearless
Dark secret: You may select 1 enemy MC or IC before the game starts, this model knows something it shouldn't have done, mark down the
model on a piece of paper, in KP games it is worth an extra KP, in objective games it becomes an aditional objective, you may only do this
once, no matter how many characters you have with dark secret

Deathwing: If a master in terminator armour is taken and/Or Belial is taken, your deathwing terminators
have the following rules, and unit options.

special rules
Deathwing assault: Up to half of your unit may Deep strike on turn 1, no reserve roll is needed.
Masters of teleportation: If a deathwing unit was to land on immpassible terrain or another unit, do not roll on mishap table, simply
move them the min distance to avoid the obstacle.
Fearless
Best of the Best: Deathwing terminator squads may sweeping advance

Deathwing may use the following options

HQ
Belial master of the deathwing
Librairian (must have term armour)
Interogator chaplain


Elite
Deathwing Dreadnought (all types)
Deathwing Sternguard
Deathwing Vanguard

Troops
Deathwing tactical squad

Fast attack
Deathwing telaportation sqaud

Heavy Support
Deathwing Devestators
Deathwing Land raider (all types)



Belial master of the deathwing. 180
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 5 4 4 3 5 4 10 2+/V
Wargear: terminator armour, Plasmablaster (twin linked plasmagun)
Heavenfall blade (str 6 power weapon)
Special rules: Eternal warrior, Decent of angels (confers to unit), dark secret
May exchange the heavenfall blade and/or the plasmablater for the following
Thunder hammer free
Storm shield free
Single/Pair of lightning claws free
Heavy flamer free
Assault cannon 30pts
May also take: a cyclone missile launcher 30 pts


Interogator chaplain 130
WS bS S T W I A LD SV
5 4 4 4 3 5 3 10 2+/4++
Wargear: terminator armour, rosarius, Crozius arcanum. storm bolter
Special rules: litinies of hate, honour of the chapter
Dark secret.

Options:
special issue ammunition 10pts
Replace Storm bolter for
Storm sheild 15pts
Plasmablaster 15pts
Blades of reason 15pts (may re-roll failed wounds vs IC)

Deathwing Sternguard 235pts
5 man
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 2+/5++
Wargear: Storm bolters, special issue ammunition, power fists
Options: Up to 2 terminators may swap storm bolters for:
Assault cannon 30pts
Heavy flamer 5pts

Deathwing Vanguard 235pts
5 man
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 2+/5+
Wargear: dual lightning claws

Special rules: Heroic intervention

Options: any model may exchange a pair of LC's for the folowing
Thunder hammer/storm shield free
Heavenfall Blade/Storm shield 5pts
up to 2 models may take the following, replaceing 1 of there weapons
Heavy flamer 5pts

Deathwing Mortis Dreadnought 130
WS BS S F S R
4 4 6 13 12 10
Wargear: 2 Multi melta, smoke, spotlight
Options: may exchange mutli-melta/s for the following
2 TL-Auto cannon 10pts
2 assault cannons 30pts
2 plasma cannons 25pts
2 TL-lascannons 40pts
2 Converstion beamers 40pts

Normal dread

Deathwing Chaplain Dreadnought
As per FW


Troops
as per current codex
5man (may take up to 5 more terminators for 40pts each
Deathwing tactical sqaud 200pts
may take 1 heavy weapon per 5 men



fast attack
5 man
Deathwing teleport squad
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+/5++
Wargear: Personal teleporters (may be removed from table and auto deepstriked next turn, may be used
even in combat) Storm bolter, power fist
options: up to 1 model in 5 may swap a storm bolter for
Heavy flamer 5pts
assault cannon 30pts
cyclone missile launcher 20pts


Heavy support
Deathwing Devestator sqaud 215pts
5 man
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 9 2+/5++
Wargear: Storm bolter, powerfist
Options: up to 4 storm bolters may be exchanged for
Heavy flamer/Heavy bolter 5pts
plasma cannon 10pts
Las-cannon 15pts
assault cannon 30pts
OR
may keep storm bolter and take up to 4 of the folowing
Cyclone launcher 20pts
conversion beamer 25pts

Special rules: Cyclonic whirlwind: if the unit take 4 cyclones, it may forgo its shooting and
use the following profile instead

Str8 ap3 ord blast barrage

The whole template is str8, not just under the hole


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No comments??


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so no comments lol, kinda thought someone would have wanted to add an idea or something.

anyway, the next part will be ravenwing, wish me luck

Interesting, i like the variety and flexibility. Its a no-brainer that the Deathwing would have the very best equipment, so a lot of it makes sense. Let me take a closer look at this tomorrow!

Curious about the special rules, why stubborn, fearless, preferred enemy and atsknf? Are these all rules for DW? or just listing out the special rules on top?

Anyways I would stick with stubborn or feerless, rather than both, and I am not sure why DA would get preferred enemy (unless it was somehow tied to Dark Secret) or PE chaos or something.

Overall a would say a little too much overpowered. Deathwing are made cheaper, better in CC and the only "problem" i see is belail is more expensive and still no iron halo :( but i think SS/relic blade is an auto-include anyways.

Deathwing Devestator squad seems nasty, 8 s8 missile shots on a 2+/5+ for 295 seems really cheep, especially since against hordes you have 8 s4 blasts and 10 s4 bolter shots and tanks, well 8s8 shots are pretty good. Sitting in cover, with fearless, these guys will be hard to move.

Just noticed the herioc intervention with master of teleportation, could be op. purposefully deepstrike directly on top/near of the enemy, or in the middle of his biggest group and you have an almost guaranteed assault, with deathwing assault make that a turn 1 assault, possibly from multiple units.

*BTW - I really do like the list though, and the concept is great. I think there could be a few things that need work, but otherwise I think it would be a blast to play!

I like it. I'll have to make up some lists.

tiekwando wrote:Curious about the special rules, why stubborn, fearless, preferred enemy and atsknf? Are these all rules for DW? or just listing out the special rules on top?

Anyways I would stick with stubborn or feerless, rather than both, and I am not sure why DA would get preferred enemy (unless it was somehow tied to Dark Secret) or PE chaos or something.

Overall a would say a little too much overpowered. Deathwing are made cheaper, better in CC and the only "problem" i see is belail is more expensive and still no iron halo :( but i think SS/relic blade is an auto-include anyways.

Deathwing Devestator squad seems nasty, 8 s8 missile shots on a 2+/5+ for 295 seems really cheep, especially since against hordes you have 8 s4 blasts and 10 s4 bolter shots and tanks, well 8s8 shots are pretty good. Sitting in cover, with fearless, these guys will be hard to move.

Just noticed the herioc intervention with master of teleportation, could be op. purposefully deepstrike directly on top/near of the enemy, or in the middle of his biggest group and you have an almost guaranteed assault, with deathwing assault make that a turn 1 assault, possibly from multiple units.

*BTW - I really do like the list though, and the concept is great. I think there could be a few things that need work, but otherwise I think it would be a blast to play!

to answer the quetions

the cycones on the Dev sqaud are infact a typo, they are supposed to be 30pts not 20 rather large diference, that will make the unit 335 for all cyclones, note however they DO NOT get the option of TH/SS, only the vanguard and Tacticals get the options of them.

as to the question about the universal rules, yes they are indeed for the Dark angels as a whole, not just the deathwing, the deathwing rules are in the specific part about them, prefered enemy is confered by the interogator chaplain, this makes them very diferent from standard chaplains (which will be in the codex also), I have done this basically to make them even more diferent from the rank and file chaplains AND if you are tortureing and disecting "volunteers" for a few centuries, your going to know just where to punch them in the groin.

the only unit made cheaper is the standard tactical sqaud, in this edition fearless is more a hinderance than a boon, and a full tact unit is 400pts before upgrades, in a standard 1500pts game thats a max of 30 terminator (tacticals) and the master or belial and thats it, not much im sure you will agree, this is how i imagine a normal list to look

HQ
Belial 180
Heavenfall blade/storm shield

5 Vanguard terminators 235
2 thunder hammer storm shield, 3 heavenfall blades/storm shields 15
total 250

5 sternguard terminators 235

6 tacticals
cyclone, insert what unit you like herre
5 tacticals
cyclone, insert what unit you like here

5 devestators 215
4 cyclone 120 335

total 1500

this gets you 26 terminators and belial, kind of what you get now, so im sure it balances out




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deathwing Command squad 230
5 man
You may take a deathwing command squad if Belial, azrael or a master is taken with terminator armour
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 2+/5++
unit: 4 DW veterans, 1 DW apothecarie
Wargear: Power fist, storm bolter, apoth has narthecium
Options: any model may swap storm bolter for the following
Storm bolter with spec ammo 5pts
Thunder hammer free
power weapon free
lightning claw 5pts
Heavenfall blade 10pts
Up to 2 may take
Assault cannon 30pts
heavy flamer 5pts
plasma blaster 10pts
Cyclone 30pts (does not replace weapons)
Power fist may be exchanged for
Storm shield free
lightning claw free

Any veteran may also take up to 1 of the following:
Company standard 25pts (same as current)

The unit may be upgraded to Retinue for 30pts

Deathwing should have WS 5 Terminators.

rockerbikie wrote:Deathwing should have WS 5 Terminators.

Short and sweet lol, what in the fluff or history of the codex's supports this ?

BS5 maybe, but WS 5... not so sure, Now i do think ALL termies should be WS BS 5 but thats another agument lol

I like the thought of Deathwing devastators.

Re: Deathwing devastators, I think it would be better for them to be differentiated by something more than just getting the potential for an awful lot of cyclones or Buttcannons.

Something like having access to better targeting information, or weirdo veteran skills would be just dandy.

a five man squad has access to 2 special weapons, and at the ten man mark they get another. And maybe an ability that lets them reduce enemy cover saves by one.

Re: Dark angels in general.
I really don't want them to end up written off as "extra chaplains and more plasma marines", with options for all FA or all terminator army. That seems kinda lame. But you know, as they stand at the moment, they are kind of lame. What has been fleshed out, has been less than inspiring for them.

They are some of the most veteran and have access to some of the most arcane wargear and have one of the strictest chains of command, I'd like to see that come out a bit more. I keep hearing about how they have the most awesome tactics ever, but I have no idea how they'd imply that through rules implementation. Anyone got any slick ideas?

how about a company master may add 1 of the following USR's to himself, this usr may be confered to and unit within 12"

For example

Master
WS BS S T W I A LD SV
6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 3+/4++
Wargear: power weapon, bolt pitols etc


options:
The master may take one of the following USR's
Prefered enemy 15pts
Tank hunters 15pts
move through cover 10pts
acute senses free
Fearless 15pts
He may use this skill with any unit he has joined OR confer it to a friendly unit within 12"

that sound cool?

I also agree that DA should not be the Plasma toting chapter, since nothing in the fluff supports this, it is a thing that came from the index astartes that allowed us to take a plasma cannon for our tac sqauds, when everyone else could not, this was to represent use of more arcane tech that other chapters didn't have as much widespread use.

RE Dark Secret. Wouldn't this mean that the point is constantly contested?

You can't contest an objective when you're dead.

liquidjoshi wrote:You can't contest an objective when you're dead.

this is totally correct, the model is an objective in every way, so for example if it was with a unit, the ob would infact be contested, as soon as it dies leave the model in place, it is still an ob, note however the DA player is forced to write the model down before the game so no "it wasnt in that transport it was in this one" shenanigans can take place, as with army lists, if you wish to show your oponent before the game.. ok, if not , then thats ok, agree before hand as the BRB states.

I would apreciate anyone testing these rules to give feedback, I have been testing them myself, and the only time it starts to get broken is at 2k pts plus

Formosa wrote:

liquidjoshi wrote:You can't contest an objective when you're dead.

this is totally correct, the model is an objective in every way, so for example if it was with a unit, the ob would infact be contested, as soon as it dies leave the model in place, it is still an ob, note however the DA player is forced to write the model down before the game so no "it wasnt in that transport it was in this one" shenanigans can take place, as with army lists, if you wish to show your oponent before the game.. ok, if not , then thats ok, agree before hand as the BRB states.

I would apreciate anyone testing these rules to give feedback, I have been testing them myself, and the only time it starts to get broken is at 2k pts plus

But also that would mean the enemy would automatically start with an objective.

Nope, seen as the person isn't an objective until they are dead, it's the same rule as Bjorn the fellhanded's if I am not mistaken.

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Nope, seen as the person isn't an objective until they are dead, it's the same rule as Bjorn the fellhanded's if I am not mistaken.

Ahhhhhh...

It isn't worded like that...

Formosa wrote:

rockerbikie wrote:Deathwing should have WS 5 Terminators.

Short and sweet lol, what in the fluff or history of the codex's supports this ?

BS5 maybe, but WS 5... not so sure, Now i do think ALL termies should be WS BS 5 but thats another agument lol

Terminators are their speciality so it would make sesne that there Terminators are better than the rest.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Nope, seen as the person isn't an objective until they are dead, it's the same rule as Bjorn the fellhanded's if I am not mistaken.

Ahhhhhh...

It isn't worded like that...

no you are correct, the oponent does start with a OB, this makes getting to the guy a big priority, fits quite well im sure you will agree.

I'm thinking of changeing it slightly so that the oponent does not know Which IC/MC that you have chosen (like Yymagarls secret dep), add an air of tention and secrecy to the game, fitting of dark angels im sure you will agree.


Do we have any opinions about the idea of masters confering USR's?

Formosa wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Nope, seen as the person isn't an objective until they are dead, it's the same rule as Bjorn the fellhanded's if I am not mistaken.

Ahhhhhh...

It isn't worded like that...

no you are correct, the oponent does start with a OB, this makes getting to the guy a big priority, fits quite well im sure you will agree.

I'm thinking of changeing it slightly so that the oponent does not know Which IC/MC that you have chosen (like Yymagarls secret dep), add an air of tention and secrecy to the game, fitting of dark angels im sure you will agree.


Do we have any opinions about the idea of masters confering USR's?

But that kind of breaks the game... you could, for example, choose a really easy to kill guy and then the enemy sends them on a suicide mission. If you randomly determined it, it would be fairer.

Ummm... Belial could do something like this

Warriors of Legend: The Deathwing are true masters of their art, inspiring their allies to feats of unimaginable bravery and instilling fear into hearts of the enemy.
When Master Belial is included in your army, the enemy must pass a leadership test when assaulted by Deathwing Terminators or be reduced to WS 1. Furthermore, you may choose to reroll one die at any time, unless Belial is killed before you use it.

Formosa wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:Nope, seen as the person isn't an objective until they are dead, it's the same rule as Bjorn the fellhanded's if I am not mistaken.

Ahhhhhh...

It isn't worded like that...

no you are correct, the oponent does start with a OB, this makes getting to the guy a big priority, fits quite well im sure you will agree.

I'm thinking of changeing it slightly so that the oponent does not know Which IC/MC that you have chosen (like Yymagarls secret dep), add an air of tention and secrecy to the game, fitting of dark angels im sure you will agree.

Agreed that it's better if the choice is random. It should be limited to Independent and Upgrade characters as well, to make randomization easier. This is always a time-consuming process though. You could have your opponent write down a numbered list of their characters, while you secretly write down a number. They hand you the list, whatever number you picked tells you your target. Then you have written proof after the game is over that you captured the right character.

Further, I don't think the random character should be an objective either. It would be much less game-breaking if they simply provided you an additional Kill Point in Kill Point missions, IF you kill them in hand to hand combat or a sweeping advance, and gave the enemy an extra Kill Point if they kept the character alive. For Objective missions, I would suggest having a random objective outside your deployment zone count double for whoever holds it, with only the Dark Angels knowing which one.

Anyway I like the idea of the Dark Angels having a secret mission, it's just clunky to implement and hard to balance.

ok after some play testing here is the new dark secrets rule

All DA Idependant characters have the following rule

Dark Secret: After Setup, but before the game begins, randomly determine a single enemy IC or MC (not tyranids) the Dark angels have determined this model as having learned something they need about there secret/fallen, in KP games this character is worth an extra KP if killed in CC or run down, in objective games this character becomes an additional objective if killed in CC or run down, Note down the character in question, No changing your mind after the game begins.

This has gone quite well so far, and is far less clunky than the previous version, as always give feedback and please try these rules out.

I will be putting up the Ravenwing Strike force later today

I fail to see how this is any more overpowered then the previously released codex that GW have been doing.

I it looks good, interesting, and now I have a use for the 35 Terminators.

ahh if only my man
but a few notes the interrogator should be about 5 pts more

the devestatorare way to powerful do two heavy weapons for 5 men and 4 for ten

also change the teleportaion squad to power weapon storm bolter with upgrade to chainfist available

see i used to think the DEv squad would be too powerfull, but having tried it, it realy isnt, its high point cost means its not spamable.

The interogator being 5pts more i can agree and shall do

and power weapons on the tele unit, hmm good idea will add, chainfist is aslo a good call

i'll go ahead and try this with a friend of mine who ip lay a lot we'll see how it goes