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How the game plays right now, most people have enough anti tank fire to drop all your transports turn 1, so i ask are they worth taking? im currently running around with grey knights and i always end up losing a transport before they can span the field, leaving my guys out in the open to take fire. i realize that without the transports they would be walking anyways, but id get more things in my army without the 1 shot boxes eating up points.

This is pretty much just directed at IOM transports, my dark eldar would be screwed IMO without their raiders.


also not sure if this is better here or in tactics, sorry if i misplaced.

A rhino costs less than it costs to buy two tactical Marines. It makes the squad literally twice as maneuverable and gives them protection from long range shooting. It means they can get in close and actually do what they're supposed to.

Most armies don't have THAT much anti transport shooting. Even a dicked out GK army with three Pysfleman dreadnoughts will kill at most 3 rhinos in a turn. Even so, smart use of cover and smoke launchers will save your transports.

So in short, while rhinos and razorbacks aren't quite as crucial to Marines as Raiders are to DE, they're pretty close.

Yes.
Short Answer.

Im beginning to think you have me followed brother srm, you are one of the first who always answers my posts. and in your reply this time i found out a problem, i haven't been using my launchers.
but my initial complaint is, and maybe im just unlucky, but i lose land raiders on one turn of shooting as well.

I'm not following anybody really, I just post way too much What's popping your Land Raiders on turn 1? That very rarely happens, and it's really demoralizing when it does. It might be worth looking into taking Khan in your Marine lists so you can outflank everything if that's the case.

Brother SRM wrote:A rhino costs less than it costs to buy two tactical Marines.

Exactly. Rhinos are so cheap and flimsy that you shouldn't expect them to do much, nor should you greatly mourn their passing when they explode. For something as cheap as a rhino, you really shouldn't expect it to have THAT much of an impact on the game.

No army (except perhaps either stripe of eldar) NEEDS to have transports in order to be competitive, and space marines are included in this. T4 3+ gives a lot of protection, which means that you can still do foot even with fewer models, and marines have other options too, like drop pods, if they actually want to get somewhere in a hurry. If you want to run a gunline marine army, then razorspam is one just fine way to do it, but you don't need rhino-chassis vehicles to do gunlines, and you don't need them in order to be competitive with marines. The same is true for marine derivitives (like CSM and GK) and guard.

Learn to use cover...pop smoke....us BLOS terrain...and to reserve.

Ok i thought iput it into my original post, but im playing around with grey knights right now. and whats been killing my stuff turn one are tyranofexxes and zoanthrops. I mainly only play nids, except when i have the gas to go 50 miles and play at the nearest gaming center. and even then right now im proxxying a lot of my gk with sw.

Foot sloggers can be effective if done right. Many of your opponents have anti-vehicle stuff anyway, so you'd robbing them of a lot of their firepower's effectiveness by having fewer vehicles. For instance, a Lascannon is a pretty useless waste of points if there are no vehicles to shoot at (or MC I guess). Granted, most people take missile launchers these days for just that reason, but still. Besides, cover isn't hard to come by, and you'll usually be getting armor saves against missiles anyway.

I have done a foot slogging sisters list that while its no where near tournament worthy works surprisingly well in your average game around a shop.

Terminator "wing" lists also work pretty well without the use of vehicles. And deny your opponent the kill point of the incredibly cheap rhino's.

That is the main issue I have with sisters lists for example. Sure I can field 10 Vehicles. But 7 of them are AV11 transports that are necessary for a multitude of reasons but end up doubling the amount of killpoints my army can offer my opponent. I suppose it has to be so for balance reasons though. Oh well.

Brother SRM wrote:A rhino costs less than it costs to buy two tactical Marines. It makes the squad literally twice as maneuverable and gives them protection from long range shooting. It means they can get in close and actually do what they're supposed to.

Most armies don't have THAT much anti transport shooting. Even a dicked out GK army with three Pysfleman dreadnoughts will kill at most 3 rhinos in a turn. Even so, smart use of cover and smoke launchers will save your transports.

So in short, while rhinos and razorbacks aren't quite as crucial to Marines as Raiders are to DE, they're pretty close.

and then psycannons can rip apart the other 6. razorspam isnt that great anymore imo.

Better cheap transports taking the fire rather than your troops! Then there's always the chance that they might mae it across the field to your enemy