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This is more to make a list that fits the world eaters strongly. I'm going to use the BA codex to play them until the new chaos legions dex comes out. So I have some pretty heavy restrictions on myself. No Razor backs, no storm ravens, no sanguinary guard, baal predators, and no tactical squads. That being said, here is the list. I want it to be decent. Better than an average csm list, and something that won't get tabled easily. There is a strong focus on model I want to build an convert though. The modeling and world eaters aspects are the top priorities, but not having a horrible list is important too haha

1499/1500pts

HQ-160
Drakken Hastur, Champion of Khorne(Gabriel Seth)-160

Elites-125
2 Butchers Nails Chirugens(Sanguinary Priests)-125
1 Jump Pack

Troops-924
9 Chosen of Khorne(Death Company)-315
Rhino, Power Fist, 2 Power Weapons, 2 Infernus Pistols
Chosen Dreadnought(Death Company Dreadnought)-160
Blood Talons
10 Khorne Assault Berzerkers(Assault Marines)-250
Power Fist, Melta Bombs, 2 Infernus Pistols
8 Khorne Berzerkers(Assault Marines)-199
Rhino, Power Fist, Melta Bombs

Heavy Support-290
Vindicator-145
Vindicator-145

This is my first list build and my grasp is fairly tentative. The vindicators have no meaning to me, they are just heavy support options that seem to fit with world eaters tactics. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Seth is a poor choice, almost any other HQ would be superior.

The generally accepted best loadout for assault marines is power fist and 2x melta guns. Infernus pistols aren't as good as melta guns.

You also probably only need the 1 sanguinary priest for the 2 assault squads, so you can save some points there to bulk up the 2nd assault squad.

Hope this is useful.

As for the moment, I'm not giving anyone any 2 handed guns. This is largely to keep with the feel of the world eaters. And not having any melta is unacceptable, so infernus pistols are my compromise.

And as for the sanguinary priests, I need them to make everyone feel like khorne berzerkers haha

But I can definitely change the hq. Do you think that overall the list is bad?

I'm not sure what you're going for, but if you're going for "competitive" then this isn't it.

DC are overcosted and horrible. They're essentially a one-shot weapon that will almost always hit, and for that you're paying a LOT more than you should. At least they generally do destroy whatever they hit first - but after that they run out of steam and go flower picking.

I don't agree on Seth being a poor choice of HQ - as an individual, he's not half bad, but all of his special rules pretty much only benefit himself. There are just better choices that have more synergy with the rest of the army - for that, you might want a chaplain instead. Especially if you're trying to go for a Khorne feel.

I also say that infernus pistols are wastes of points. If you're insistent on no 2-hand weapons, then drop them entirely and it'll pay for a second rhino for your 10man squad, along with extra armor for both. If you want melta, take pfists and meltabombs - without meltaguns, that's the best you'll do.

The 10 man assault squad has jump packs, should they not?
I can definitely make the switch from seth to a reclusiarch, dropping the DC is fine too, let me see what i can move around.

Trading the DC for Terminators is usually a pretty decent trade. Do World Eaters have termies? I haven't played against chaos very often. DC Dreadnoughts are really good choices though, especially if you can drop them in a spot where the opponent really doesn't want them. Try this:

5x Death Company
- Razorback (Las/plas, extra armor)
(205 points)

Death Company Dreadnought
- Drop Pod
(160 points)

That drops 110 points right there, which should be enough for you to make any other changes you want. Actually, let's see if I can't make a metal screen list here.

The problem with including jump packs and transports is that you generally won't have enough transports to screen the jumpers. If you're running a "metal screen" list, then you want at least 3 rhinos (or better yet, razorbacks) to screen the jumpers coming behind - that way you keep them out of LOS so they don't get shot all to hell on the way in. It's hard to get 10 assaulters with jump packs behind a single rhino, or even two of them*, so either lose the one you've got and go with purely JP troops, or drop the packs and pick up a second transport.

* I've had some success running a metal screen with two transports by turning them back to back and presenting their sides, but since 5ed is "metal boxes and lots of cover" you might not have the room to do that in a lane on the board. 3 of them side-by-side, though, is enough to screen 2 full squads of 10 assault marines while being narrower than 2 of them back to back. You also want some redundancy, so that one vehicle popped isn't going to expose your jump troops running behind the screen.

Actually, let's see if I can't make a metal screen list here:



Astorath the Grim joins the Death Company for giggles, and the priest joins the assault squad. Astorath is probably the most "Khorney" of the Blood Angels HQ choices and has the best synergy with regular assault squads (1-3 instead of a 1 for FC? I'll take that, thanks!), as well as being arguably our best character-killer, what with the executioner's axe special rule.

I normally wouldn't include a "special" HQ choice in any game under 1850 points - they're just downright too costly for a low point game. However, you're trying for a Khorney feel with the army, so I went for it. You could trade him out for a regular reclusiarch and kit your DC out with the spare 95 points - also, a magna-grapple on the DC Dreadnought would help to try and keep them from being kited around too badly by a cheap transport.

The problem, again, is low saturation on everything. This list only has 3 AV11 vehicles, a dreadnought, and a drop pod, which are all likely to be popped by turn 2 with all of the anti-vehicle stuff out there. That leaves you with low troop saturation, with only 31 "pairs of boots on the ground". You can play around with it a bit and see what you come up with though, and in the end it's all up to you on just how close to chaos you want to play them.

Edit: Hurr hurr, I R Gud at Speshul Rulz. Also, added spoilers for the list so this isn't too massive a post.

Wow, thank you very much. I appreciate the time you put into that!

I'm definitely not opposed to astorath the grim. I'm not STRONGLY opposed to razorbacks, but i'd prefer to go without them. I'd also like to avoid MSU. The World Eaters didn't really have access to razor back tech, and bigger squads represent legion strength. I'm MUCH more okay dropping the transport troops to go with an all jump pack force. World Eaters Definitely had access to termies and I'd love to take some. Do you have any advice based on those specifications?

If you're going to take assault termies, you'll definitely have to put them in a transport. Stormravens are a strong choice, but the land raider crusader gives them the benefit of frag grenades, which they wouldn't otherwise be able to get.

The problem with jump troop spam is your limitations. You aren't taking any 2-handed weapons, so no meltaguns makes it difficult, given the meta today, to pop vehicles. Infernus pistols truly are a complete waste of points, so the only decent anti-vehicle weapons you'll get come from meltabombs/pfists (which require you to get into assault with them) or vehicles. Technically you can take a razorback as a dedicated transport for a full-size squad of marines, but that's un-fluffy as well.

So your only option then becomes devastator marines. Take some of those and drop the razors - 2 squads of devastators (counts as havocs?) should be decent enough, and cheap at 130 points each for 4 missile launchers.

The original list included vindicators, are they not worth it?

Vindicators are definitely worth it. The problem is saturation. If you're running an infantry list, take devastators. If you're running a mechanized list, take tanks.

Taking mostly infantry with a couple of tanks just ensures that your opponent is going to throw literally everything at them until they aren't a threat anymore. Vindicators are already HUGE fire magnets - but as the only thing in your list capable of reliably popping his vehicles, it magnifies things and turns otherwise really good tanks into expensive craters.

In keeping with the theme, why not simply run a mass of Assault Marines with JPs, supporting them with Devastators and Sanguinary Priests? I suppose a Reclusiarch for HQ, as Librarians are obviously out.

Or, I suppose you could go with Assault Marines in Rhinos if you don't think JPs fit the World Eaters theme, in which case Vindicators for support is a good idea. Either way, I suggest fully committing to a style, don't run a mix of JPs and Rhinos.

Two-handed special weapons are also a really good idea, if you can stomach them. With the Pistols, you pay extra for a less effective weapon, and hardly get anything in return.

So basically, what I'm allowing myself to use is what I can justify in some reasonable way. I'm avoiding razorbacks because I don't think the traitor legions had access to that tech. I'm okay with using librarians so long as they only use the powers sanguine sword, unleash rage and might of heroes. Those melee based powers can be justified as powerful daemonic equipment. I have a thread in general discussion about what I'm using.
What if I gave guys 2 plasma pistols, and their overcharged combined fire counted as a meltagun?

Overcharged combined fire? I'm not familiar with that rule, explain?

It's not a rule of any sort, just a means of counts as meltagun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Think of it as I'm willing to use meltaguns, I'm just going to model them differently.

I fully support creative ideas like your dual Plasma Pistols.

As for Librarians, I would say that, despite the restrictions you've listed, they are probably the best HQ choice. You can duplicate the main benefit of a Reclusiarch (Litanies of Blood) with Unleash Rage, get a psychic hood in the bargain (which I'm sure Khorne would love), and save 30 points. The only thing you really lose is the Invul Save and a somewhat better profile.

Ah, that makes sense, then. It sounds good to me.

I thought Khorne hated psykers? I'd still push for Astorath the Grim as the HQ choice as well, followed closely by a Reclusiarch.

I'm not really a fan of unleash rage. If I was going to take a CC power other than Sanguine Sword, I much prefer Might of Heroes. I like using it to get extra attacks with a PFist or THammer against vehicles, or attaching the librarian to the same squad as the other HQ and giving them 1-3 extra attacks. Take, for instance, Astorath - 7 I6/S6 attacks on the charge, rerolling misses anyway?

Yes, please.

Chesh wrote:Ah, that makes sense, then. It sounds good to me.

I thought Khorne hated psykers? I'd still push for Astorath the Grim as the HQ choice as well, followed closely by a Reclusiarch.

I'm not really a fan of unleash rage. If I was going to take a CC power other than Sanguine Sword, I much prefer Might of Heroes. I like using it to get extra attacks with a PFist or THammer against vehicles, or attaching the librarian to the same squad as the other HQ and giving them 1-3 extra attacks. Take, for instance, Astorath - 7 I6/S6 attacks on the charge, rerolling misses anyway?

Yes, please.

To be fair, the two situations you list are the only ones in which MoH is better than UR. Since the OP would be running the Librarian in a squad of Assault Marines, UR is probably the better choice, as it would significantly buff the attached squad. Especially since he would probably use Sword as the other power. Against a vehicle it's obviously better to gain 4 S10 attacks than 1-3 S8 attacks.

Remember, the usual combination of Shield + something isn't on the table here.

Alright, here's a draft. Look better?

1500/1500

HQ-175
Librarian-175
Epistolary, Jump Pack, Sanguine Sword, Unleash Rage

Elites-385
3 Sanguinary Priests-225
3 Jump Packs
Furioso Dreadnought-160
Drop Pod, Blood Fists

Troops-680
10 Assault Marines-235
2 Meltas, Powerfist
10 Assault Marines-235
2 Meltas, Powerfist
10 Assault Marines-210
2 Meltas

Heavy Support-260
Devastator Squad-130
4 Missile Launchers
Devastator Squad-130
4 Missile Launchers

Looks good, but I'd drop the Furioso and pick up a third PFist for the assault squad that doesn't have one, and a third devastator squad. Then just for giggles, give the libby some meltabombs because hey, why not? Just the fist + third dev squad leaves you with exactly 5 points remaining.

The reason I say drop the furioso is the same argument as above, with saturation issues. The dreadnought wouldn't survive the turn it landed, so it'd essentially be just a waste of 160 points.

Depends on what deployment type you are running. If you are going to walk the assault squads on, then a backfield distraction turn1 from the furioso makes sure 1) a tank/squad gets threadetened and 2) a portion of their shooting has to make sure that thing doesn't take another step. Eases the assault marines job of getting across the field alive.

If you going DOA to start, then the pod comes down and the furioso is a waste. I'd drop Epistolary on the librarian and buy an empty pod for one of the dev squads. That way if you want to DOA, you can keep the furioso in reserve and have him come down later.

do you hear the voices to wrote:Alright, here's a draft. Look better?

1500/1500

HQ-175
Librarian-175
Epistolary, Jump Pack, Sanguine Sword, Unleash Rage

Elites-385
3 Sanguinary Priests-225
3 Jump Packs
Furioso Dreadnought-160
Drop Pod, Blood Fists

Troops-680
10 Assault Marines-235
2 Meltas, Powerfist
10 Assault Marines-235
2 Meltas, Powerfist
10 Assault Marines-210
2 Meltas

Heavy Support-260
Devastator Squad-130
4 Missile Launchers
Devastator Squad-130
4 Missile Launchers

You've strayed a long way from your original theme, and this list will not be at all compatible with the chaos codex, specifically World Eaters, when it comes out. Traditionally World Eaters don't field devastators, minimal jetpack troops and zero Librarians...so that's 95% of your list right there.

If you want something World Eater-ish it's not going to be super competitive, if you want something competitive, it won't be compatible with the new Chaos codex. So you will have to make a choice which is more important to you, playing World Eaters, or having a better chance at winning games. Personally I think you'd be better off sticking to the World Eaters theme so you don't waste money on units you won't be able to use. If you are starting from scratch it's probably going to take you several months to purchase, assemble and paint everything anyways and by then the new Chaos codex should be available.