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For those that are still interested (and wont get a chance to see for themselves at any point soon) I've decided i'm gonna take some white plasticard in to the store with me when I go next, and make a nice swatch card from all the demo colours (over black too). Once I get home I will paint the recommended equivalents from the current range next to the new swatches , as well as known YRGB colours (& B/W) for people to calibrate their monitors by should they feel the need.

All those that couldn't give a monkeys say 'Meh'.

All those that do say 'Woot'.

woot!

I am really curious about some of the colors....I for one use both fenris grey and shadow grey...and them both mapping to "the fang"...um....that does not work too well for me!

thanks in advance!

Bear in mind that I only have access to the store demo paints at the mo, and I don't recall 'The Fang' being one of them. I could be wrong though.

The double whammy of Dark Angels green/Orchide shade is though, and to memory the new one was closer to OH Shade for instance.

I will be doing this tomorrow or tuesday, so you can expect the swatch to be up by tuesday night.

Nice, I've had a play with the new paints in a store already. But an actuall comparisson board would be really useful for deciding which ones to buy in future.
Any plans to continue this past the demo paints when they become available?

XmarvX40k wrote:
Any plans to continue this past the demo paints when they become available?

I could do actually, though I have no plans to buy all of the colours. Many are just pre-lightened versions of the same colours for ease of layering, and unless I am stocking up on a particular scheme for a commission client, I likely will not be buying these sorts of tones for my personal palette.

I will endeavor to expand the swatches as and when I can get access to the new paints though.

Please do! That way it won't be like playing Russian Roulette every time I buy a new paint to replace the old one I'm using.

Be nice if the gw stores did this and stuck them up on the wall for a few months after the launch.

Here is the conversion chart straight from the GW website. Would love to see how they really compare though.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart

pdawg517 wrote:Here is the conversion chart straight from the GW website. Would love to see how they really compare though.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart

Many of us have seen the conversion chart, but to be honest - its a bunch of baloney - its printed marketing materials - its does not show a "Match" in color, it shows what new paints are replacing the old paints.

There are many cases where two very different old paints were replaced by a single new paint - thus, the chart is worthless.
We need to see what the old and the new actually look like.

Of course, the mis-matches may just be mistakes....one can hope.

So why did they overhaul the whole paint line? Why not just tack on 30 or so paints, instead of the 150 of whatever it is. Seems like its just a massive headache for every single person.

just does not compute

Sorry to be a pain, but can we keep this thread for the discussion of my paint swatches please. I've edited the thread title to make it clearer to casual browsers now too.

If people want to chat about the new paints, then you can find the general discussion thread here - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421259.page

Ta!

woot!

Orki wrote:Sorry to be a pain, but can we keep this thread for the discussion of my paint swatches please. I've edited the thread title to make it clearer to casual browsers now too.

If people want to chat about the new paints, then you can find the general discussion thread here - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/421259.page

Ta!

Well said that man!

Your idea is a very good one, should be handy for people.

Looking forward to the results.
I'm pretty sure if we turned this into a group project then all shades could be shown in photographs next to their apparant matches?
Personally I only have just over 20 pots of the paint that is going out, but I'm up for showing any replacements I get. Provided the stock doesn't just fly off the shelf on release day I'm sure to grab a few colours. Particularly Agrax Earthshade being as I managed to run almost dry of Devlan Mud during the panic buying season.

I got swatches of the demo paints yesterday, and have painted the recommended equivalents alongside them. Unfortunately I only have the batteries for my crappy compact cam charged at the mo, which has terrible colour reproduction accuracy. I did try a few snaps but they were next to useless for our purposes so I will charge my DSLR batt today though and get some pics up as soon as I have the time.

Righty ho then, here's a couple of quick pics for you of the demo colours. Taken in less than idea lighting unfortunately, though I will remedy that for subsequent pics. The new paints are out tomorrow anyway, so while I would imagine that these initial shots will be of little use to people, hopefully one of the locals (or staff) will be fanatical enough to pick up a mega paint set and let me do a more concise chart.

What is immediately apparent is the contrast drop off towards the top of each shot. Other things to note are that as I had to use paper for the swatches, the metallic are pretty useless, so I slapped some on one of the demo minis. Other phenomenons include the Astronomicon Grey I borrowed looking totally different form the pot I have at home. This demonstrates consistency issues that many have noticed with the old range quite well.

This first chart demonstrates quite well the lack of colour matching on some colours, and alternately some very good colour matching on others. To the eye also the UM blue replacement is bang on which will please Smurf lovers.




This second pic shows the two new metallics alongside old ones. Both were thinned to a 'good' consistency and given two coats to provide a smooth coverage (Yes you can thin the Dry paints before anyone asks). While the flake size issues of the new ones are very hard to photograph, trust me, to the eye they look gak compared to the old ones and it is just about visible in these pics. Open up a pot of the new ones next to the old equivalent and you'll wish you stocked up. :(
The photographs do show the coverage and consistency variation quite well though, and on the plus side at least the colour matching is very good (but then again adding black to an aluminium flake infused medium is hardly gonna create any issues is it? ).

Top - (L)Necron Compound > (R)Mithril Silver
Bottom - (L)BGM > (R)Leadbelcher




Another thing that I mentioned previously was the smell - the new paints smelled of a very high quality acrylic base that was reminiscent of the old GW colours from when they were made in the UK many, many moons ago (before all you young whippersnappers were born ), and after I mentioned this to one of the guys in the store we compared the aromas and guess what? They smell the same. A good sign!

They also have very similar handling characteristics which is great news to many that remember just how good the old medium used to be. Unfortunately anyone that remembers these oldskool paints will also remember how grainy the metallics used to be, which also seems to be the case with these new ones too. :(

You may have also noticed the excellent pigmentation, coverage and distribution of the new washes when compared to the old ones. All of the paints (except the metallics) exhibited impeccable handling and again reminded me of the oldskool Citadel colours from my childhood GW era. Silly colour changes and crappy metallics aside I am VERY pleased with the performance of the new paints.

Thought I'd post the few colours I picked up today.


The colours that I have the old equivalent of are compared here;


With no camera flash;


edit; I have noticed that my really really old Hawk Turquoise is considerably better than the new Sotek Green, unfortunatly I do not have a Hawk Turquoise from the line that just went out to compare it to.

i'm just glad that the main colors I use are at least 95% near in terms of color.

A lot of them do seem really close... I'm a painter, and would have a hard time getting some of the new shades any closer to the old ones than gw did for myself.

from the 6 I have tested above, I'm thinking the metallics arent as good, but the other colours are equal or better for the most part. I collect skaven and 40k orks so to be honest I'm not bothered very much if the paints dont quite match because it will give my units some variety in tone. But for Space Marines I would probably care a little more when the uniform changes half way down the force.

XmarvX40k wrote: A lot of them do seem really close... I'm a painter, and would have a hard time getting some of the new shades any closer to the old ones than gw did for myself.

from the 6 I have tested above, I'm thinking the metallics arent as good, but the other colours are equal or better for the most part. I collect skaven and 40k orks so to be honest I'm not bothered very much if the paints dont quite match because it will give my units some variety in tone. But for Space Marines I would probably care a little more when the uniform changes half way down the force.

Sweet! For chaos renegades, they look close enough

Edit : Don't be so sure about the colour matching guys. Apart from a few colours, they are not matched.

----------

OK so I bit the bullet and purchased some today for further testing.

Shades and bases are definitely very good, except one very major flaw... The Devlan mud replacement (Agrax Earthshade) is far too warm and brown to be even remotely as useful. You would need to add some black to get it even close to DM. I'll have a play with ratios later in case anyone finds it useful, but mark my words - The miracale mud is no more. :( Could this be GW's New Coke?

(Edit: 1:1 Agrax/Nuln makes a good Devaln Mud replacement)


The layers I am happy to report are not watered down. What they've done is worse. They have made the coverage, pigmentation and opacity just downright terrible. They are possibly the worst miniature paints I have ever used. My craft acrylics are better than these, and to make things worse, you will still need to thin them with water to get them to handle correctly and deposit pigment evenly etc. This will not teach you anything, not will it make your layering easy. The leveling properties and distribution of pigment/medium are average at best, so it's not as if they found a magic mix of flo-aid enhanced medium or anything either.
Contrary to what some people were hoping for, you cannot paint these straight out of the pot and expect good or easy results, and so in my opinion they will be of no real benefit to even those of us that may have struggled with the art of thinning. Those people will still need to learn to do it regardless, only you're now learning with naff paint. Yes, the crazy amount of medium in the pots makes it marginally easier than layering with the new bases, but they are not a solution, rather a complication imo.

The metallics are definitely naff too. I hoped the layer's may have a different flake than the bases/drys but I was wrong. They are all terrible. There's no need to waste time painting with them. VMA all the way from now on.

The bases are stunning though! I will definitely be using these. So far these are the stuff of dreams, and I will certainly be picking up some more, if not all of them in future. Buy them, buy them now!!

PS If anyone has any leftover Devlan mud, BGM, or Mithril sillver, please send them to...


Edit:I just thought I should add that others may find the new layers to their tastes, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Editedit: Oh, and the colour selection is phenomenal! Just looking at the rack gets you all excited! Well, until you whittle it down to the ones that are actually any good, and then you're left with the bases, washes, and glazes. :/

According the to review from tale of painters, with reference to devlan mud

http://taleofpainters.blogspot.com/2012/04/review-citadel-paint-range.html

"Once my stock is gone, I’m going to replace my old Citadel washes with Army Painter Warpaint Inks, their Strong Tone Ink is 1:1 Devlan Mud as I found out in this review,"
http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/2012/02/review-army-painter-warpaints.html

Orki, how do the washes work on tanks? Do you still have the splotchyness that happened whenver you used a wash on a wide open area?

Nice find with the strongtone inks! I'll have to look into those for sure! Thanks Orinoco.

To answer your question about splotchy pooling, to a lesser degree yes. As washes are designed to gather the pigment/medium as they dry, any discrepancy in thickness of application will cause those blotches.
The new ones do appear to gather less strongly than the old ones, and also seem to have a higher concentration of pigment which causes more staining across the surface than the old ones too.

If you want to eliminate the splotches (whatever wash you use) then I recommend 'cleaning up' while the wash is still wet by brushing the surface with a large damp mop, to thin and remove excess wash. I do this all the time when washing tank panels and don't have any problems with unwanted pooling.

Awesome, I've been looking for a swatch comparison like this. Has anyone done a full comprehensive comparison of all the "conversion" colors?

Heres a more concise wash/shade comparison for you all.

Notes:

Colour equivalency is generally good with the washes/shades, though as previously mentioned, the one they really should've bothered to match properly was Devlan Mud. Not that it matters too much though, as now we have a true brown back in the range again, and a very nice match can be made by mixing approx 1:1 Agrax:Nuln. You can see the small test blob in between AE and DM in the photo.

Reikland isn't quite as warm as Ogryn.

New Sepia appears more yellowy.

Carroburg is plummier an deeper than Baal.

All the other colours are somewhat darker and more useful for shading IMO.

I didn't pick up the yellow and orange shades as I had no use for them at the time, but I will add them when I no doubt eventually pick then up.

Thanks, this stuff is extremely helpful.

Any suggestions on go to metallics?

TBH if you're not that fussy then the new metallics will do you fine. Colour matching is easy to do with the silvers so no probs there, and they do look better on the model than they do in the tub, but I can't speak from experience of the new golds yet.

I personally am not happy with the new metallics in general though, as I'm not a fan of people changing their products for the worse, but a typical gamer will have no problems with the new ones unless they have uncompromising expectations and standards from their paints.
Depending on your stance on them, the difference is fairly small in use, but if it turns out you don't like them then i'd recommend Vallejo Model air metallics. They're a little thinner than you're used to, but have exceptional flake size and go on very smooth straight out of the tub.

I'll give it a shot. If I'm going to try something new no matter what, might as well try one that gives me more for cheaper.

Thank you Orki & XmarvX40k for taking the time to post your Comparisons.

I have tested the replacement for Dark Angel Green (Its my army's main colour), Caliban Green and its a totally different colour in almost all ways. Lucky for me I bought some more before the new paints lunched. So what paint range/mix of paints recommend to get a similar colour?

Don't CDA or VGC have a DA green equivalent?

I'm sure someone here will be able to confirm this.