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After reading the Tyranid codex over, its left me with more questions than answers.

1. Whats the minimum amount of shooting i can get away with at 1000/1750 points? not expecting too many vehicles at 1000 but dont wanna be chasing things around all game? what units are the best at shooting point for point?

2. I Plan on using Hormagaunts, Raveners and a Flying Tyrant. Does this mean the Tyrant should be given a big gun? or kitted out for Combat and use his MC abilities to destroy tanks.

3. Can Tyrannofexes/Carnifexes be trusted to shoot accurately enough for thier points costs? or are hive guard the only way to go. Zoanthropes seems fragile and short ranged, or am i wrong?

4. If i use lots of Hormagaunts, with they work similarly to a green tide, or does the lack of the "klaws" hurt them too much? if so, and i used lots of hormagaunts with a few MCs (trygon?) will i have the hitting power? can running the swarmlord Help them?

Thanks

1. I would probably try to bring at least 2 units that are capable of opening tanks at range. Hive Guard are the best shooting we have, point for point. Zoanthropes in a Spore Pod are also decent in certain games.

2. I would almost never give a Hive Tyrant a "big gun". If you want him to shoot things, stick him with 2 TL Devourers. 12 twin-linked Str 6 shots can easily destroy light transports or a few marines...although even that isn't necessary.

3. Tyrannofexes are too expensive for 2 BS 3 shots, imo. Some people have had success with them, but I would avoid them. Same goes for the Carnifex - way too expensive for what it does. As mentioned, Hive Guard are definitely our best option. If the opponent doesn't have a good psychic defense (more than half the armies out there), Zoanthropes work great. They have a 3++, which is the best save in the codex. In a Spore Pod, their 18" range is always enough.

4. Always give your Hormagaunts toxin sacs. They don't work exactly like a Green Tide list...if you lose 50% of your gaunts, you actually lose 50% of your hitting power, but it's close enough. You definitely don't want to throw them out into the open with no defense.
The swarmlord can help with any unit in the book...a unit of Toxin Hormagaunts with Furious Charge against a Paroxysm'ed unit is more than scary. Definitely not necessary though.
Hormagaunts and a few MC is probably all the hitting power you'll need, although I always try to squeeze a unit of Genestealers into my lists.

Thanks

Zoanthrope and Hive guard both have an effective range of 24". The Zoanthrope can make a nice synpase support unit for the hive guard. Guard cracks the transport open 'thrope drop S5 AP3 small blasts on them, in close (under 18")they can reverse roles for about the same effect.

Tyranid prime,
for 1750, add 119 Genestealers
for 1000, add 65.

Divide equally across 6 troop slots, and then infiltrate them in 3 blobs. String one unit out in front of its "assault buddy" to give the unit behind a cover save.

No shooting, just sweet sweet second turn charges and surrounding tanks to deny disembarking.
Try proxying models for genestealers and doing this, at least.

Hitting and getting to tanks in cc is hard.
You really have to shoot them down.
Hive guard, zoanthrope are the best options, none of them perfect though they can usually fit into a list well.

Ajroo wrote:
1. Whats the minimum amount of shooting i can get away with at 1000/1750 points? not expecting too many vehicles at 1000 but dont wanna be chasing things around all game? what units are the best at shooting point for point?

It depends. At 1k pts, you're very limited. But i'd say a minimum of 4 guards. Preferably 6. But that's a lot of juice, if you only got 1k pts to go around.

2. I Plan on using Hormagaunts, Raveners and a Flying Tyrant. Does this mean the Tyrant should be given a big gun? or kitted out for Combat and use his MC abilities to destroy tanks.

I usually outfit my Flyrant with Old Adversary, TL-Devs, Parox and Leech E. This makes for a versatile unit.
- The main reason I field him is Old Adversary.
- If you cast parox on an enemy unit, you're looking at to-hit rolls of 3+, while they need 5+ to-hit.
- Combined with certain units/biomorphs, you're pretty much re-rolling both to-hit and to-wound.

If you're interested in running a fast in your face list, you might want to look as Gargoyles and Parasite (in a group). And DO have a look at their biomorphs, as they might greatly benefit from these (Toxin + AG = 4+ to-wound vs. MEQ).

3. Can Tyrannofexes/Carnifexes be trusted to shoot accurately enough for thier points costs? or are hive guard the only way to go. Zoanthropes seems fragile and short ranged, or am i wrong?

- Besides running them in a pair outfitted with TL-Devs, with two Primes attached for cover saves and wound allocation, I wouldn't bother.
- If you need the shooty power, then you'd be better off looking at 2-3 Hive Guards (preferred), 2 Zoanthropes in a Pod, Tyrannofexes or a Harpy or two.

4. If i use lots of Hormagaunts, with they work similarly to a green tide, or does the lack of the "klaws" hurt them too much? if so, and i used lots of hormagaunts with a few MCs (trygon?) will i have the hitting power? can running the swarmlord Help them?

Hormagaunts don't really work the same way as Orks with powerweapons. If you need some anti-tank stuff, look elsewhere. Hormagaunts are mainly good for tying up infantry units and the like.
- Tying up certain units can be a great advantage, if your stronger, more killy units are slacking behind. If you allow your Raveners to attacks the tied up group in a later turn, the engaged unit(s) are forced to focus on the previous unit that assaulted them, preventing them from harming the unit(s) that assaulted later. Works great against enemy units that poses too great a threat against certain T4 units (such as Thunderhammers, as they will ID your T4 models).

1. At 1750, you could get away with a squad of hive guard or Zoans in a mysetic spore. Some say the Tyranofex isnt worth it but I have been having great success. The Rupture cannon is just something for him to do while he is walking up the bored. But at 1750 pts he will be too expensive. Gaunts armed with devourers in a mysetic spore is also a fun trick. When you ask what units are best for shooting points for points I would say Zoans in that they can deal with both infantry and tanks. Hive guard are not really suited for dealing with infantry.

2. I like to run my flyrants with lash and bone sword and one set of TL-bainleech worms. Also, and I know people will disagree with me, but the flyrant loves a gargoyel wall in front of him. At 1750 a squad of 20 does the trick.

3. Zoans are short range but there are some tricks they can perform. I like to deepstrike mine. Two ways you can do this are behind enemy lines when something looks like it's ripe for shooting. The other way is (situational) if your army is advanced enough, you can deploy them near your main force so that they avoid getting shot at on the walk up, but are less of a suicide unit. My experience has shown me that Carnifexes, while still usable, are no longer worth the points it takes to arm them with big guns. Carnifexes like close combat with their scything talons.

4. His swarmyness isn't going to do much for a gaunt heavy army. If you pack it full of hormegaunts and the enemy doesnt have much in the way of tanks then it should run fine. However, a list like this will suffer against terminator heavy armies and highly mechanized lists.

MFletch wrote:Hitting and getting to tanks in cc is hard.
You really have to shoot them down.
Hive guard, zoanthrope are the best options, none of them perfect though they can usually fit into a list well.

I have never had much trouble get 'stealers, flyrants or trevigons in to tank ripping range. Raiders and other AV14 all around are a pain, but the they are for shooting to.

barnowl wrote:

MFletch wrote:Hitting and getting to tanks in cc is hard.
You really have to shoot them down.
Hive guard, zoanthrope are the best options, none of them perfect though they can usually fit into a list well.

I have never had much trouble get 'stealers, flyrants or trevigons in to tank ripping range. Raiders and other AV14 all around are a pain, but the they are for shooting to.

Unfortunately they are 6+ to hit if the tank moves, or even 4+ if the enemy is feeling kind. tervigons are really slow. Flyrants are not too bad but the enemy will have one round of shooting on them.
Stealers die in rapid fire range if they do not deal with the infantry inside.
Which leads to the main problem: You open the rhino up and the occupants get another turn to shoot you, maybe even charge you if it is in their favour. Pretty sure they will make you eat rhinos before getting to the preds.

I run my Flyrant up with Scything talons x2 with leech essence and proxasim. But my trevgons take more fire then my Flyrant dose...Till it pops that LR.

kinratha wrote:I run my Flyrant up with Scything talons x2 with leech essence and proxasim. But my trevgons take more fire then my Flyrant dose...Till it pops that LR.

The only reason a 'raider needs to get that close to a tervigon is to charge it with assault termies. I am backing the assault termies to kill you before you get to hit back. Also it has potms so I am assuming it has moved 12'', 6+ to hit, not sure with only 4 attacks on the charge it is going to happen.

If you're looking to take the minimum amount of AT, I would suggest 2 groups of 2 hive guard