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Hey guys got a query for you, If you have your standard parking lot, and the mawloc comes up, the models must move off the template the min distance or be destroyed, this we know already, however
If i come up between 4 transports like this, they must move off template by min distance, does that mean they are destroyed as per the mawloc rules?

Seeing as how the 2 tanks can be moved forward to clear the marker, I would say (and play) that they are not destroyed. If there was something in front of them, however, they would be.

this is where it gets odd, the rule states "move the models the min distance to clear all models from beneath the template "

Now moving foward is not min distance, as you can clearly see, and if the models cannot be placed they are destroyed.

so this is a bot off an odd one, by the letter off the rule, they are destroyed, but that seems a bit harsh

Don't have a Tyranid codex, bit hard to judge without knowing the exact wording used.

If its something like "shortest distance possible", then moving forward would be fine.

but shortest distance is into the other tanks, which activates the kill result, moving foward would not be shortest distance and thus breaking the rule, see the issue?

I kinda thought GW has FAQ'd this but cant seem to find it lol

Formosa wrote:but shortest distance is into the other tanks, which activates the kill result, moving foward would not be shortest distance and thus breaking the rule, see the issue?

I kinda thought GW has FAQ'd this but cant seem to find it lol

It's not a "possible" distance if it won't clear them from the template. While moving to the side may be the shortest absolute distance away from the center of the template, that isn't what "possible" refers to in this scenario, by the way the rules are worded (and how the term is used in general 40k).

The shortest distance that would clear the chimeras is forward, making that the shortest possible distance. If there were something in the way (that is, if moving the models just off the template in any direction still leaves them in an illegal position), then they are destroyed.

Formosa wrote:"move the models the min distance to clear all models from beneath the template "

If that's the exact quote from the rules, then moving forward is fine. It's not the min distance, but it is the min distance to clear. If they were blocked in and unable to clear, then destroyed.

Tyranid Codex wrote: ...move that unit by the minimum distance necessary to clear all models from beneath the template while maintaining squad coherency and avoiding impassable terrain

The underline is the important part, minimum distance necessary. There are no rules saying that the move has to be the shortest possible (which would be to the side, and hence, destroyed)

minimum is shortest, but i get what your saying.

so in order to get a wrecked result rthe template would have to be moved a little further forcing the chims back an thus off the board a bit?

It is telling you to move them.

The vehicles are not making a Move.

you could move them over the other chimeras (Note: You can not do this, as vehicles are impassible terrain) and into a clear space if that was the shortest distance to get them clear of the template.

in the case given, the shortest distance they can legally be, is forward to clear the template.

min·i·mum (mn-mm)
n. pl. min·i·mums or min·i·ma (-m)
1.
a. The least possible quantity or degree

just so you guys know what i mean


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:It is telling you to move them.

The vehicles are not making a Move.

you could move them over the other chimeras and into a clear space if that was the shortest distance to get them clear of the template.

in the case give, the shortest distance they can legally be, is forward to clear the template.

well that certainly is not correct :0, otherwise the destroy result would be impossible, vehicles and units are impassible i just noticed in the book, so it makes this a bit clearer, as it says avoid impassible terrain, so pushing them back would be the only way to kill them in this situation, as they cannot go foward without breaking the rule or through the other chims, and thus breaking the rule, thanks for the help guys

So there you go, vehicles are impassible and they can not be moved through impassible terrain, so you move them forward.

Now if you also had a line of Genestealers in front of those tanks, then they would be destoryed but since they can move forward, they MUST move forward.

is no one getting the part about "minimum distance necessary" they are not allowed to move foward, as it is not min distance, so must go back or to sides (but cannot do so), thats leaves back as the only legal move (according to the rule) thus pushing them off the board, whrere they cannot be placed and killing them, just to re-iterate, they are not allowed to move foward.

I get the pary about stealers btw, also does that apply to units jumping out of transports? if i surround it, do they all die too?

Formosa wrote:is no one getting the part about "minimum distance necessary" they are not allowed to move foward, as it is not min distance, so must go back or to sides (but cannot do so), thats leaves back as the only legal move (according to the rule) thus pushing them off the board, whrere they cannot be placed and killing them, just to re-iterate, they are not allowed to move foward.

I get the pary about stealers btw, also does that apply to units jumping out of transports? if i surround it, do they all die too?

Minimum distance to clear was the wording used in the rules. The to clear bit is important. Into the other chimeras is not clearing... Only if they can't clear are they destroyed.

i agree into the other chims cannot be done , but it would be possible to place the template so the only way to go it off the board, and thus killing them

Formosa wrote:is no one getting the part about "minimum distance necessary" they are not allowed to move foward, as it is not min distance, so must go back or to sides (but cannot do so), thats leaves back as the only legal move (according to the rule) thus pushing them off the board, whrere they cannot be placed and killing them, just to re-iterate, they are not allowed to move foward.

I get the pary about stealers btw, also does that apply to units jumping out of transports? if i surround it, do they all die too?

What are you talking about? It's been stated numerous times. It seems you are the only one that is not getting the part about "minimum distance necessary". Go back and re read grendel083, xcaliber, DeathReaper, and happyjew's responses. Me re stating it would be irrelevent. This has been beaten to death.

Formosa wrote:i agree into the other chims cannot be done , but it would be possible to place the template so the only way to go it off the board, and thus killing them

You can't legally move off the board either, so with the given picture the only choice where you can legally move AND clear the marker is forward. It doesn't matter if that move takes them back through the center of the marker. Now if they had no legal move that would take them out of the template, then they are destroyed.

The "minimum" qualifier is there to ensure that they move no farther than just outside of the marker, otherwise by RAW you'd be allowing people to move stuff all over the board.

Rulebook FAQ page2 wrote:
Q: Can models move off the table? (p11)
A: Not unless a rule or the mission being played clearly specify that they can. All good wargamers know that the edge of the table is the end of the world!

Moving off the table is not an option, friendly models count as impassible terrain so they're not an option.

The only legal move is forward.

Formosa wrote:is no one getting the part about "minimum distance necessary" they are not allowed to move foward, as it is not min distance, so must go back or to sides (but cannot do so), thats leaves back as the only legal move (according to the rule) thus pushing them off the board, whrere they cannot be placed and killing them, just to re-iterate, they are not allowed to move foward.

I get the pary about stealers btw, also does that apply to units jumping out of transports? if i surround it, do they all die too?

We are getting it.

It is necessary to move them forward.

P.51 Nid codex under terror from the deep rule, 2nd graph, 4th sentence. "If any unit still has surviving models under the template, move that unit by the minimum distance necessary to clear all models from beneath the template whilst maintaining squad coherency and avoiding impassible terrain."

Therefore you mist move the minimum while avoiding Impassible terrain. Which in this case is both Chimeras, and the board edge to the back, so they MUST move forward.

Hope this clears it up for you Formosa.

Formosa - the minimum distance necessary to clear the marker is forwards, into the table. The vehicle cannto take the shortes distance to either side, as a piece of impassable terrain is in the way. The other shortest distance would mean the tank would attempt to move off the table, and this is not explicitly allowed and so, as per the BRB FAQ, is not allowed.

This means the minimum distance to clear the blast marker is forwards, into the table.

Same as when you tank shock a unit, if they pass morale and move out of the way they cant be pushed off the table.

If you want to destroy a unit using the mawloc push requirement, then the unit must be surrounded by impassable terrain.

The minimum distance necessary to clear means you only die if you are locked in there by impassible terrain and units.


If it said move the minimum(or shortest) distance off the blast marker or be removed then you would be correct that the tanks are dead in the OP, but the inclusion of necessary changes even this sentence to allow you to move out from under it.

Formosa, please don't quote the dictionary at people it comes across as rather condescending. The Isle of Man and the United states also use english they don't need to have that cleared up for them

Formosa wrote:I get the pary about stealers btw, also does that apply to units jumping out of transports? if i surround it, do they all die too?

in order to leagly place models from a transport that has been Destroyed: wrecked you must place them over 1" from an enemy unit. Any model that can't be placed leagly is removed from play as a casualty. It is my understanding this has nothing to do with the Malwoc ability though, it vehicle is remove from play, not destroyed: Wrecked or Exploded. I don't think your even allowed an emergency disembark. Someone please verify this for me, don't deal with tanks often enough or have my rulebook handy.

Yonush wrote:

Formosa wrote:I get the pary about stealers btw, also does that apply to units jumping out of transports? if i surround it, do they all die too?

in order to leagly place models from a transport that has been Destroyed: wrecked you must place them over 1" from an enemy unit. Any model that can't be placed leagly is removed from play as a casualty. It is my understanding this has nothing to do with the Malwoc ability though, it vehicle is remove from play, not destroyed: Wrecked or Exploded. I don't think your even allowed an emergency disembark. Someone please verify this for me, don't deal with tanks often enough or have my rulebook handy.

Actually, models are destroyed, not removed from play. Whether or not destroyed = Wrecked or Exploded is up to debate, but I believe, if something causes an automatic destroyed result it is usually Wrecked.

I'll start a new thread for that discussion...