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Hey guys! So I have been playing Orkz casually for some time and just recently went this past weekend to my first local game shop Tourney, I went 2/3 and managed fourth(out of ten). I have been looking over what I did and what to change and thought i'd use the wisdom of Dakka for some advice.

My list

HQ

Big Mek-KFF-Eavy-Cyb-Burna 120

Big Mek-KFF-Eavy-Cyb-PK 125

Elites

Nobz x7 365
PB-Cyb
PK-Waaagh-Cyb-eavy-kombi rokkit
PK-bp-cyb-eavy-kombi rokkit
PK-cyb-eavy-kombi rokkit
BC-cyb-eavy-kombi rokkit
BC-cyb-eavy
BC-cyb-eavy-kombi rokkit

Troops

Boyzx 30-Sluggas/Choppas
W/ Nob BP PK 220pts
Boyz 30-Sluggas/choppas
w/Nob BP PK 220 pts
Boyz 30- Sluggas/Choppas
W/Nob BP PK 220 pts
Boyz 30-Sluggas/Choppas
W/Nob BP PK 220 pts

Deff Dredd
4 DCCW AP GR-120

Deff Dredd
4 DCCW AP GR-120

Heavy Support

Killas Kansx3
Grotzookasx3 135
Killas kansx3
Grotzookasx3 135


I played Grey Knights, SOB and Black Templars. Was able to beat both GK and SOB and didn't kill a single marine agaisnt the BT. Everyone I played sat on their board end and shot at me(duh). So I am thinking for my next 2k to drop the nobs and put two sqauds of 3 rokkit buggies and one or two deff koptas. I was also thinking about kommandoes but are they really dependable? I also contemplated dropping the nobs for more kans and rokkit buggies.
Also is a kan wall good for these points? I ask becaue agaisnt the BT he was able to field 15 lascannons and like a ton of missle launchers. The scenario was dawn of was and due to crappy setup I literall started at the table edge and he was able to sit on his requiring me to move a whole 4ft to get in contact(never happened) he just blew the wall apart. Any help or advice is welcomed, and feel free to rip apart my list as well.

I would drop the Nob Squad and go for something like Kommandos with Snikrot. It's a much easier way to make sure that you get into their back field and assault/tie-up/kill the Anti-Tank units.

Also, drop a KFF Mek and grab Ghazzy. He can come off the back board with Snikrot, and cause massive havoc as your boyz move up and kick the crap out of everything else.

Make sure to bubblewrap the Dreads and Kans with the boyz.



Alternatively, you can just drop a Deff Dred, buy a BW, put the MAN's and KFF Mek in it, and have a mobile command/hammer unit/force multiplier.

Kan Wall is best run at the 1500 level. Higher than that, Wagon Rush becomes a lot better since the percentage of points consumed by your Wagons becomes less and less the higher you go, allowing you to field more support units.

Save the points on eavy armor/scorchas on the meks. Paying that much to add a +1 armor save to something that will die so easily is not worth it, besides you have cybork already.

I feel the same way on the nobs, it's just not worth paying for a 4+ armor save when you already have a 5+ invul save.

Also another good swap out that will get you your templates back AND save you points is to drop 1 DCCW from the deffdread and add a sorcha. 3 DCCW is plenty and no one ever expects them to have a flamer.

Besides that it seems like a pretty decent list.

I ran two meks because its difficult(impossible) to get all the walkers in KFF range. I would like to run Ghazzy for the power/6" waaagh but again can't obscure all the walkers. Also if I bubble wrap a dredd what does that do? Being a vehicle I didn't think the infrantry in front would provide anything to the dredd.

I have tried wagon lists before and usually get tabled when I do. That could be due to my setup/tactical decisions, but I find its nice to get into assault turn two however I don't have ebough boyz to hit hard. I am open to BW list suggestions.

Alternativly I thought about just dropping everything off of the meks but the KFF and the eavy armor off the nobs to put a squad of rokkit buggies in using this list.


Thanks for all the help so far!

If your having tank problems, then you could swap out those grotzookas for rokkits, with their wopping 3 BS! This list seems to have plenty of anti-infantry with all those boyz.

I thought about that as well, but i've had so much luck with them. Though to be honest haven't given the rokkits a fair shot. Ill play a few with them and see how they do.

WaaaghGruzkull wrote:I ran two meks because its difficult(impossible) to get all the walkers in KFF range. I would like to run Ghazzy for the power/6" waaagh but again can't obscure all the walkers. Also if I bubble wrap a dredd what does that do? Being a vehicle I didn't think the infrantry in front would provide anything to the dredd.

I have tried wagon lists before and usually get tabled when I do. That could be due to my setup/tactical decisions, but I find its nice to get into assault turn two however I don't have ebough boyz to hit hard. I am open to BW list suggestions.

Alternativly I thought about just dropping everything off of the meks but the KFF and the eavy armor off the nobs to put a squad of rokkit buggies in using this list.


Thanks for all the help so far!

I was even wondering, what do you need a PK for when you've got so many DCCWs? Assuming they get into combat, that could conceivably take care of any high AV target, anything else you could shoot to death.

That's 25 pts right there, and then you could ask: what do you need the 'eavy armor for? For that matter, what do you need the Cybork for? If you're behind the Kans you get a 4+ cover save for the whole unit, which is better at range than 'eavy armor or Cybork. Maybe use the Boyz for fire support and use the Walkers for CC dirt and AV?

I mean, think about that for a second. It might not be a perfect idea, but 25 points off of two Meks, 5 for the armor and 10 for the Cybork, that's 40 points per Mek for a total of 80 points. You could field 2 Kans for that cost.

Alternatively, with Cybork and the PKs, it's a good backup unit should your Shoota Boyz be forced into CC, and you could add a bosspole for a leadership 8 reroll using the 5 pts from the 'eavy armor.

EDIT: upon seeing that most of your list is Slugga Boyz, actually what you've got is a pretty boss, but slow, greentide/Kan amalgam. What I think you're missing is two things: one, fire support. You need some way to get up in people's faces, either jacking up their deployment or drawing some fire and taking out a couple of their fire bases. You mentioned buggies and Deffkoptas, both of which are ways to close distance. You mentioned Kommandos, that's another way to show up behind their lines. Consider Lootas. 48 inch range strength 7....that will kill a ton of transports, Dreadnoughts, MCs, or low AV fire platforms. For high AV models you'd sort of need something that can show up via infiltrate or Deffkoptas via Scout.

One thing that scares me about walking Orks into gun lines like that, 6-12 inches a turn is that you're just giving them multiple turns to shoot at you before you can do anything. What would you do against a Dark Eldar sailboat list or an IG/Tau gunline aside from plod through withering fire turn after turn until you could close into a glorious assault?

Priority should be put on stripping those Nobz and making them a better value. More wounds is better than 'eavy armor because it's not gonna matter if they get hit with a rokkit. Get more models instead. Drop the 'eavy armor from your Big Mek. Consider more Kans and think about giving at least one unit of Kans some rokkits.

Wow, Ted Nugent plays Orks!!!!

martin74 wrote:Wow, Ted Nugent plays Orks!!!!

I also play Cat Scratch Fever

Agree to most of what Ted said.

Nobz suffer the same problem most of our elites do, they are really juicy targets to shoot if they are walking on foot. Any battlecannon, rocket launcher or lance in the entire game is going to have a field day shooting them, and KFF won't help you with that. You should really drop them for more anti-vehicle shooting as stated above.

Another thing that I assumed a typo at first, is you are only running two units of kanz? Even with their lousy WS three kanz pack much more of a punch than one of your deff dreads, while not costing a lot more. You should definitely get another trio in there, no matter the cost.

For the big mek either 'eavy armor or cybork should only be bought if you have to sink points somewhere, and even then don't buy both. 'heavy armor usually keeps the big mek as save as you can get in close combat, anything wielding a power weapon will kill him anyways, cybork or not. I also don't see the point of the PK in a dread bash army, as you alread have a total of 14 DCCWs and four powerklaws, there is no point in giving another PK to a model that will get singled out and killed on first opportunity. If you get him anything, get a burna. An initiative 4 powerweapon at least makes the bigmek semi-dangerous in close combat, and provides him with a shooting option, as he traded his other weapon for the KFF.

At last some small optimizations:
Deff dreads with four DCCWs look bad-ass, and give anything that's not packing thunderhammers and stormshields a good really good stomping. But a deff dread with three DCCWs does, too. So I'd suggest dropping one DCCW from each deff dread and replacing it with a skorcha or big shoota(your choice, really) to free up points and adding a little bit of versatility to your walkers. Personally, I prefer big shootas, as skorchas put you in the danger of shooting yourself out of charge range, and big shootas give you something to do while waiting for your gretchin to get your dread moving again.

In addition, right now you are running four mobs of 30 for a total of 120 boyz. If you run six mobs of 20 instead, you can charge more units at once, and even sacrifice a unit for tarpitting without losing too much. You also get two more powerklaws, which everyone knows is what makes boyz strong.

I think you are missing antitank goodness: you can not wait to foot slog over there.
Probably best to fit in 9 kans all with rockets then maybe even a lone kopta or two.

Otherwise the list should work well.

I agree with both Mr Nugent (lol) and Jidmah:
1. Moar KANZ!!!
2. Strip the PK and armor from the bosses
3. 3 DCCW plus flammer rather than 4

Ideas I think are suspect:
1. Dropping a KFF for Snik, Kommandos and Ghaz (booo!)
2. "Bubble wrapping" the dreds is a weird idea since it defeats the whole point of a Kan Wall.
3. Changing 4 units of 30 boyz to 6 units of 20. Good point but I like your idea better.

I have not run a DD KK combo list, but I'm warming up to the idea. my kans seem to always explode in my lines which SUCK. Like the doom nobz. Consider more Deffkoptas w TLRL. Such a point bargain!

I think you meant to say "strip the PK from the meks", not bosses

WaaaghGruzkull wrote: So I am thinking for my next 2k to drop the nobs

Yes, your nobs are a fire magnet, and in a world of psyflemen dreads and ML spam, they get doubled out very easily.

WaaaghGruzkull wrote: one or two deff koptas

You can also outflank them. That can be very useful, as a twin-linked BS 2 has a 55% of hitting, which is pretty good shooting for an ork. Thats a good way to hit transports. Another option is to turbo-boost them in the scout phase to give a 3+ cover.

Some people swear by the buzzsaw on them and going for the round 1 kill, but thats noobhammer. Good players have ways to mitigate/nullify that.

WaaaghGruzkull wrote: I was also thinking about kommandoes but are they really dependable?

Extremely. Get snikrot and 2 burnas in a squad. When you move them you can assault his artillary and do a good amount of damage to them. Snikrot helps you play the psychological game. You can also use him to multi-assault those 15 LCs and tie them up for a few rounds. Don't get me wrong, Snitrot and krew will get shot to bits every time, but that buys your boys a few turns of not getting shot at.

WaaaghGruzkull wrote: Also is a kan wall good for these points?

As you saw, with 15 LCs you can get just shot off the board. Armies today can bring enough guns to shoot them. I find kans work well at lower points, once you reach a point level its better to go wtih boys and outflankers/Snikrot/etc.

WaaaghGruzkull wrote: Any help or advice is welcomed, and feel free to rip apart my list as well.

Green tide armies are all about being a pain to shift. If you have 150+ boys on the table, plus some grots, koptas and snikrot you are very tough to dislodge. Your goal is to make it hard to take KPs from you, and to be able to blob over multiple objectives.

Personally I don't find KFF meks that useful in green tide lists. Their good in BW spam or in Kan Walls, but its so easy to get a 4+ cover save, those points are better invested in a warboss. While warboss's are not as tough as they used to be due to ID GK haliberds, they are still damn good for their point cost.

Hope that helps.

Everything has been very helpful thanks all! I think I am going to try dropping the nobs and adding a squad of rocket buggies with some kommandoes. Alternativly I. Also thought about 6 buggies,koptas and dropping one dredd for 3 more kans. Giving me 16 vehicles. And giving me an impressive amount of rokkits. I know a few people mentioned lootas, but everytime I've used them they don't do a whole lot, they either get 1 shot each or they just don't hit the broadside of a barn.

It has been mentioned a few times that this list won't perform well at these pts. Alternativley what are the lists you guys are playing at this pt level that are good. I know many mentioned a wagon list, which I had said I haven't had such good luck with. What are you guys taking in yours?