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Okay, I have another noob question. I'm going through the rulebook still (it's so big!) and have stumbled across something else that just isn't making sense to me.

Only scoring units can control objectives. Got it.
Troops are scoring units. Got it.
Troops lose "scoring units" if in a vehicle. Got it.
"Unit of Troops embarked in a transport can control objective." Um... Don't got it.

Transports are vehicles, therefore a unit of troops in them are not scoring units, thus they can not control and objective. Right? Apparently not... But I'm not seeing the logic.

PlagueJester wrote:Transports are vehicles, therefore a unit of troops in them are not scoring units, thus they can not control and objective. Right? Apparently not... But I'm not seeing the logic.

It doesn't have to be completely logical, but...

To effect a unit inside a transport, you measure to the transport.
To measure to see if you're controlling an objective, you measure to the transport.

rigeld2 wrote:
To measure to see if you're controlling an objective, you measure to the transport.

There is my problem. You can't control an object if you're inside a transport. Transports are vehicles, and units in vehicles aren't scoring units, and only scoring units can control an objective.

I don't know where you got that troops lose their "scoring unit" status in a vehicle.

If you look at the last sentence of the right column on page 90, that's where you find that troops in a transport can indeed control objectives, and page 56 says for measuring distances you measure to and from a vehicle's hull.

So if the hull of the transport with troops embarked is within 3" of an objective, they do indeed control it (providing of course that no enemy unit is contesting it ).

time wizard wrote:I don't know where you got that troops lose their "scoring unit" status in a vehicle.

Right above where you got your quote.

"There are a few exceptions, however, when a unit of troops does not count as scoring: If it is in a vehicle."

It'll be the top bullet above your quote in the second column on page 90.

Edit: I'm a dummy. If it /is/ a vehicle. Man I'm dumb sometimes...

PlagueJester wrote:
Edit: I'm a dummy. If it /is/ a vehicle. Man I'm dumb sometimes...

Nah, not dumb, you just read it quickly and missed something. No harm, no foul.

That's why this forum is here, to get questions answered and clear up mitsakes!

Read it quickly like, six times! It wasn't until the seventh that I caught it. And yes, that's why I'm at this forum Once upon a time, when I thought I'd be financially stable enough to play, I bought the rulebook and a CSM codex. Fortunately, I went to a forum first. Turns out that I skipped over the force organization chart, and was prepared to make an all terminator army :/ I won't be doing anything without the help of you forum folks Oh, and on top of that, it was a poorly designed army.

PlagueJester wrote:Once upon a time, when I thought I'd be financially stable enough to play, I bought the rulebook and a CSM codex. Fortunately, I went to a forum first. Turns out that I skipped over the force organization chart, and was prepared to make an all terminator army :/ I won't be doing anything without the help of you forum folks Oh, and on top of that, it was a poorly designed army.

You do realize that you can make an all Terminator army using Codex Dark Angels, right?

Also using Space Wolves or Grey Knights.

Those codices were not about when I was playing. And the codex I was using was CSM, which you can't with.

With the older codices you could make an almost all terminator army, using your one chosen squad and two terrminator retinues for a pair of terminator HQs, then just some summoned lesser daemons for your Troops. Janthkin, IIRC, used to run a Lustwing with three squads of six terminators and three squads of six daemonettes for slaanesh's sacred number.

Are the all terminator armies OPd?

PlagueJester wrote:Are the all terminator armies OPd?

No.

Terminator armies can seem powerful if you can not deal with 2+ armor saves.

But most armies will have stuff to deal with terminators.

DeathReaper wrote:
Terminator armies can seem powerful if you can not deal with 2+ armor saves.

Um... wouldn't that require anti-tank weapons? Meaning you'd have to tailor your armor to beat them, because that would make normal weapons statistically obsolete?

PlagueJester wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:
Terminator armies can seem powerful if you can not deal with 2+ armor saves.

Um... wouldn't that require anti-tank weapons? Meaning you'd have to tailor your armor to beat them, because that would make normal weapons statistically obsolete?

Enough anti-infantry will force failed saves.
And Plasma is AP2 and not really anti-tank

Not really. Most armies have a ton of melta to deal with tanks, and they deal with termies quite well.

PlagueJester wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:
Terminator armies can seem powerful if you can not deal with 2+ armor saves.

Um... wouldn't that require anti-tank weapons? Meaning you'd have to tailor your armor to beat them, because that would make normal weapons statistically obsolete?

Not really. Plasma and power weapons for example work just fine. Basically, TAC list should have enough AP2 that terminator armies are far from unstoppable.
And volume of fire will kill them still. Yes, you need twice as many shots as you would need to kill normal marine, but with terminators generally costing over twice normal marine cost it's basically even.

Now, if your tactics on killing marines are based on having AP3 weaponry (instead of volume of fire or AP2 weaponry), then you will be in trouble.

Ah. Thanks for explaining that, guys Now I will have something to keep in mind while building a TAC army.

Not to mention if their an all terminator army there wont be many of them to have to kill.

And lexdysia strikes again.

Dyslexics of the world UNTIE!