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Hey guys,


I got a couple questions regarding camouflage :

- When I deploy a camouflage marker, my opponent is not supposed to know what's under it right ?

- To make sure there is no cheating, how can your opponent knows if the revealed unit is really the one that was meant to be camouflaged under this template ? Do you write down on a piece of paper the unit and put it under the marker ?

- If you camouflage mid-game, your opponent will know what is under the marker and the only thing you gain from this are the bonus rules right ?

- Any scenarios about an opponent seeing that you put a mine under a marker but still manage to get hit by it ?


Tell me if some questions could make more sense =P


Thanks !

Von Skyfury wrote:- When I deploy a camouflage marker, my opponent is not supposed to know what's under it right ?

That is correct.
Even so, if you 'deploy' a TO Camo unit, your opponent isn't even supposed to know that you have a unit at all.

Von Skyfury wrote:- To make sure there is no cheating, how can your opponent knows if the revealed unit is really the one that was meant to be camouflaged under this template ? Do you write down on a piece of paper the unit and put it under the marker ?

Usually casual games go by a trust system. Other than that, the Camo markers have numbers on them. Write those down.
When it comes to TO Camo, describe the position as best you can in writing and/or take a picture with your cell.

Von Skyfury wrote:- If you camouflage mid-game, your opponent will know what is under the marker and the only thing you gain from this are the bonus rules right ?

Your opponent will know so long as they remember.
Yes, the big advantage to this are the bonus rules such as being unable to be shot at until discovered, etc.

Von Skyfury wrote:- Any scenarios about an opponent seeing that you put a mine under a marker but still manage to get hit by it ?

I'm not sure what you mean.

One of the more common uses for mines is offensively.
Say, for example, you have your unit with mines and an enemy unit is around the corner. You both have no Line-of-Sight to one another due to the building, but are rather close.
If you expose your unit around the corner, you'll get shot at in ARO and it'll be a face-to-face roll.

First Short Order: Sneak up to the corner of the building such that your final position is still out of line-of-sight to the enemy.
Enemy ARO: Change facing or whatever.
Second Short Order: Place a mine such that it is within sight and explosion radius of your opponent.

Essentially, your opponent's unit is going to be stuck there with an active mine near them. If they take an ARO or any order, the mine detonates.

thank you so very much !

Even so, if you 'deploy' a TO Camo unit, your opponent isn't even supposed to know that you have a unit at all.

Aside from mines, what other things could be under the camo marker ?

- When I deploy a camouflage marker, my opponent is not supposed to know what's under it right ?

Correct your Lieutenant, models represented by a marker, Airboreborne Deployment, and hidden deployment are all unknown to your opponent.

- To make sure there is no cheating, how can your opponent knows if the revealed unit is really the one that was meant to be camouflaged under this template ? Do you write down on a piece of paper the unit and put it under the marker ?

best way is to mark it on a piece of paper what model represents who, if hidden deployment where they are, and if airborne deployment what AD level they are using. Infinity require a slight bit of maturity in it's game play.

- If you camouflage mid-game, your opponent will know what is under the marker and the only thing you gain from this are the bonus rules right ?

You would be surprise how easy it is to forget what something is, plus if he forgets what gear it has that info is no longer available to him. The bonuses of needing to be discovered first are plenty.

- Any scenarios about an opponent seeing that you put a mine under a marker but still manage to get hit by it ?

Even though it's blaintedly obvious that you are placing a mine someplace, it's easy to forgot. Also remember that since the mine is camoed it requires a discovery before you can shoot and kill it. This prevents them from easily being killed and burns more enemy orders to get through the location.

With "minelayer" special rule you get to deploy 1 mine within 8" of the model when doing deployment. This lets you place more camo markers at deployment and hides your numbers.

-Aside from mines, what other things could be under the camo marker ?

1 model, 2 models, 3 models, or a mine. Dare your opponent to take the gamble.

Thanks for the answers !

One more question :

Up to 3 models can be deployed under a camouflage marker.
Is there a maximum of 3 models that can be deployed camouflaged ?
If I own 9 models with the camouflage ability, is it ok if I deploy 2 marker with 3 models, 1 marker with 2 models and an other marker with 1 model ?


Sorry for all the questions ! =)

It's the second one.

The limitation of 3-models under a camo-counter is a limitation on the number of models per ONE camo-counter.

You can deploy 3 models under one counter, 3 under another counter, 2 under another counter, and 1 under the final counter.

oh nice =)

Thank you for your time

Example:


ARIADNA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 10/Irrs: 0):

SCOUT Lieutenant Ojótnik, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (26 | 1)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration, Lieutenant

SCOUT AP Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (35 | 1)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration

SCOUT Ojótnik, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (26)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration

FOXTROT Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (26 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration

S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Grenades / Assault Pistol, AP CCW (23)
MOV:4-4 CC:17 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
Martial Arts L2, CH: Camouflage, Infiltration

S.A.S. Chain Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW (22)
MOV:4-4 CC:17 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
Martial Arts L2, CH: Camouflage, Infiltration

2x CHASSEUR Rifle, Light Flamethrower, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (20 | 0.5)
MOV:4-4 CC:14 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration, Sixth Sense L1, Minelayer

TANKHUNTER Autocannon, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (40 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:14 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage

TANKHUNTER AP Rifle, Adhesive Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (27)
MOV:4-2 CC:14 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:14 ARM:3 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage


GROUP 2 (Regs: 1/Irrs: 0):

SCOUT AP Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (35 | 1)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Regular, Not Impetuous, No Cube
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration


300 Points | SWC: 6

ARMY CODE: eNozNlQ1NFUzVTOsAVLGEMoARJlAeGZqZhAKrMQcIgihLNSMwKQBTLMRAJDKEP4= Army Infinity v.3.0.


This list has 11 models with Camouflage and 2 with Minelayer. This means it could be represented by as much as 13 Camo markers or as little as 4.

One more question !
I'm pretty sure the answer is no but...If a unit is camoed and shoot an opponent, the opposing model has -3 BS for this ARO.
Does this -3 BS stack with the -3 BS from mimetism ?

No, because there are no cases in which both modifiers would apply at once. The only case I can think of where a model has two CH skills is those models with both Limited Camouflage and Mimetism, but all benefits of Limited Camo are lost after the model is first revealed. And MSV Lvl 3, that would allow engaging such a model while it was still Camoed, would also ignore the modifiers.

Von Skyfury, thanks for asking all these questions, I had the exact same ones

Edit: Wow, I just realised the massive necro. Found this thread through Google. Sorry for that.

It isn't too bad though - camouflage is something that is tricky to get a handle on...

A question I have on camouflage is:

If a model is in Camo or TO: Camo and reveals itself by shooting, are the enemy AROs at -3 or -6 (for TO) for the rest of the entire Camo/TO: Camo model's turn?

 Alpharius wrote:
It isn't too bad though - camouflage is something that is tricky to get a handle on...

A question I have on camouflage is:

If a model is in Camo or TO: Camo and reveals itself by shooting, are the enemy AROs at -3 or -6 (for TO) for the rest of the entire Camo/TO: Camo model's turn?

Not only the rest of the Camo models turn, but you never loss the penalty to being shot. You even get it on the enemies Active turn. Unless you get hit by something that turns it off, like a EM weapon.

You mean that if you're a model with TO: Camo you're at -6 to be shot at all times unless you've been 'burnt' or EM'd?

 Alpharius wrote:
You mean that if you're a model with TO: Camo you're at -6 to be shot at all times unless you've been 'burnt' or EM'd?

Yes, Yes I do.

P.S. Of course there is MSV2+.

 Alpharius wrote:
You mean that if you're a model with TO: Camo you're at -6 to be shot at all times unless you've been 'burnt' or EM'd?

Yep. It's also a -6 to discover.

For some strange reason, I thought those modifiers only came into play the turn you 'decloaked', so to speak.

Wow!

I wish it wasn't so hard to find a game of Infinity in my area...

Yes, you need to decloak before you fire any weapon or turn on your shields.

Oops, wrong imaginary universe.

I don't know how I missed this!

You're at -3 or -6 (camo an TO: camo, respectively) at all times, unless you're burnt or E/M'd...

Yep. It's one of the things that makes them so good even after Combat Camo. Get the range brackets right with a TO Sniper and the target literally cannot hit you. He he he.

-6 for TO, -3 for cover, -3 for range (over 16" on a Combi Rifle) and you need a minimum BS of 13 to be able to hit.

Get the range really right and you can get an HMG model in your +3 range and still have them unable to hit you back.

That's going to make Ironbovin flip...

Thanks IJW!

(I won't, though he does)