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Why isn't prayer in the machine God considered heresy by the Inquisition? Am I missing something, but I don't seem to recall the God Emperor and Omnissiah being one and the same.

This could be the attributed to the Adeptus Mechanicus being too valuable to the Imperium to be simply wiped-out.

That being said, the Inquisition don't strike me as wavering in cleansing everyone and everything that doesn't meet their stringent doctrine.

Leviathanesque wrote:Why isn't prayer in the machine God considered heresy by the Inquisition? Am I missing something, but I don't seem to recall the God Emperor and Omnissiah being one and the same.

This could be the attributed to the Adeptus Mechanicus being too valuable to the Imperium to be simply wiped-out.

That being said, the Inquisition don't strike me as wavering in cleansing everyone and everything that doesn't meet their stringent doctrine.

NOT THE SAME?! That's HERESY! *BLAM BLAM*

the truth (as it stands right now per the existing fluff), kinda goes like this:

1.) Big E may have accidentally inspired the Myth of St. George and the Dragon by beating up the C'Tan Void Dragon during the reign of Emperor Diocletian. (as in the Roman Emperor, not THE Emperor).

2.) Apparently knowing the effect of the Void Dragon on his surroundings, Big E exports him to Mars and chains him down, knowing full well that in the future when Mankind colonizes Mars the VD's presence will inspire the creation of all the Tech Toys he'll need to unify mankind.

3.) Flash foward from 305 AD to the Age of Strife.

Big E reunifies Earth and proceeds to kick the crap out of the enemies of the Adeputs Mechancius and performs miracles like healing a Titan with a touch.

AdMech declares him to be the Omnissiah.

There is a bit of controversy regarding this but the majority of the population on Mars do believe he is in fact the Omnissiah because the Emperor started doing things that only the Omnissiah could accomplish according to their prophecies...


....prophecies that the Big E himself spread prior to the colonization of Mars.



In other words - the Emperor is in fact truly the Omnissiah. He "planned" (or at least predicted) the creation of the Adeputs Mechancius (so much for the no religion policy eh?) and inserted the whole "the Omnissiah is coming" bit......and then proceeded to do the things the Omnissiah was supposed to do.

Might I recommend picking up a copy of Titanicus, as it delves into this exact topic quite well.

In truth, prayer to the Omnissiah is heresy and there's certainly more than one sect of the AM that believes the Emperor and the Omnissiah to be different beings. While all those on Mars may see them as one and the same, other forge worlds have some rather different views on the subject. However, because the majority believe the two to be the same and because only the most volatile of inquisitors are unable to see the usefulness in such a minor crime, it tends to get passed over.

jareddm wrote:Might I recommend picking up a copy of Titanicus, as it delves into this exact topic quite well.

In truth, prayer to the Omnissiah is heresy and there's certainly more than one sect of the AM that believes the Emperor and the Omnissiah to be different beings. While all those on Mars may see them as one and the same, other forge worlds have some rather different views on the subject. However, because the majority believe the two to be the same and because only the most volatile of inquisitors are unable to see the usefulness in such a minor crime, it tends to get passed over.

I believe the Magos leading the Orestes Forgeworld in Titanicus stated that a lot of theological disagreement does indeed exist between segments of the AdMech and is tolerated for the sake of free thought - but there was a pragmatic strain that ran through many of the Fabricators that the Throne and Forge were bound together for better or worse.

Which meant maintaing the pretence (for those who didn't believe in it) that the Emperor = Omnissiah.

Oddly enough, most characters outside of the AdMech like Ciaphas Cain and Shira Calpurnia readily acknowledge the link without much of a second guess. The only character outside the AdMech i ever recall actively questioning the link was Amberely Veil, Cain's Inquisitor.

And she did so only in one of her infamous footnotes.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:
I believe the Magos leading the Orestes Forgeworld in Titanicus stated that a lot of theological disagreement does indeed exist between segments of the AdMech and is tolerated for the sake of free thought - but there was a pragmatic strain that ran through many of the Fabricators that the Throne and Forge were bound together for better or worse.

Which meant maintaing the pretence (for those who didn't believe in it) that the Emperor = Omnissiah.

Oddly enough, most characters outside of the AdMech like Ciaphas Cain and Shira Calpurnia readily acknowledge the link without much of a second guess. The only character outside the AdMech i ever recall actively questioning the link was Amberely Veil, Cain's Inquisitor.

And she did so only in one of her infamous footnotes.

Indeed. The only ones who would question the link would likely come from inside the AdMech. In part because no one outside of their system knows enough about their inner workings to even ask such a question.

The issue crops up quite a bit in BL novels

As noted Titanicus delves into the schism within the Mechanicus as does Mechanicum

Inquistor Amberley Vail muses quietly “…..Isn’t it about time the Ordo Hereticus started asking some pointed questions about this Omnissiah cult of theirs?”

In the excellent Helsreach the central character responds to Princeps Majoris Zarha Mancion,commanding 1/3 of the Legio Invigilata (within her own Emperor class Titan no less) thus:

In my presence you have just expressed the notion that the Emperor of Mankind is not your God, as He is for the entire glorous Imperium. While I am not blind to the .... separist... elements within the Mechanicus, the fact remains that you are speaking heresy before a Reclusiarch of the Emperor's Chosen.

most of the time the issue is not resolved but merely put onto the back burner to simmer again - an underlying tension in the 40K universe

Mr Morden wrote:
most of the time the issue is not resolved but merely put onto the back burner to simmer again - an underlying tension in the 40K universe

Ultimately its a tension that cannot be resolved short of a very very drastic change to the fluff world of 40k.

A "Civil War" between Mars and Terra (or Mars and Loyalists vs. Separatists) would pretty much bring the Imperium crashing down in the same way that the Death of the Emperor / Flatlining of the Astronomicon would.

The Machine God isn't heresy because:

A.) The Mechanicus are allowed to maintain their own faith, as they are necessary to the survival of the Imperium
B.) They consider the Emperor the earthly representation of the Omnissiah, giving them some common ground with the Ministorum.

Reason A is the most important though. The religious autonomy and Ministorum's lack of presence in the Mechanicum is really just the result of the original Earth-Mars pact established by the Emperor at the end of the Age of Strife.

Just jumping in to point out that the "Void" part of "Void Dragon" was tacked on by the interwebz. In the actual material, it's "the Dragon" or "the Dragon of Mars".

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:
most of the time the issue is not resolved but merely put onto the back burner to simmer again - an underlying tension in the 40K universe

Ultimately its a tension that cannot be resolved short of a very very drastic change to the fluff world of 40k.

A "Civil War" between Mars and Terra (or Mars and Loyalists vs. Separatists) would pretty much bring the Imperium crashing down in the same way that the Death of the Emperor / Flatlining of the Astronomicon would.

Agreed - I feel it is one one of the many supporting pillars of the 40k fluff and a useful tool for writters

As said it is written law in the Mechanicus that the Emperor is the Omnissiah.

The other main point is that the Mechanicus is its own seperate empire withing the IoM (that is why tere is two heads onthe imperial eagle not one), they control the majority of high end technology, military technology, are the only ones that can easily produce large numbers of space marines, are the only ones that can keep the IN ships fully in service and have the backing of nearly all the forge worlds in the IoM. So for an inquisitor to call the Mechanicus heretics, that inquisitor would probably be killed by the Ordo and an official apology sent to Mars. As a war with Mars would be thee stupidest move the Iquisition could ever do.

A civil was between Mars and the Inquisition/Terra would probably have worse after effects than the Horus Heresy. This is due to the threat of external aggressors, at the time of the Horus Heresy the xeno threat was far lower than now, and the Eye of Terror wasn't full of battle ready Chaos forces. Civil war on that scale would destroy the IoM.

The Ad Mech and Imperium are so intertwined that it is impossable to seperate them. Both cannot exist without the other.

They have basically become conjoined twins.