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I'm getting ready to build up three more Imperial Guard Sentinels, and I'd debating over what configurations that I want to use. I already have three Scout Sentinels (two with Autocannons, one with Multi-laser), so I was thinking of building them as Armored Sentinels. Unfortunately, I've never run Armored Sentinels before, so I'm not sure what the best application is for them. Plasma Cannons seem attractive just because they're something that I haven't used with the Guard before, though I've also read that Armored Sentinels are best employed as a cheap counter-assault tar-pit, which sort of precludes the costly Plasma Cannon upgrade. Or hell, I could just work them up as regular Scout Sentinels, for the purposes of running some naff Scout Sentinel rush list . Does anyone have any tips on which Sentinel configurations are the most effective, and how to best use (or not use) an Armored Sentinel?

Personally I would go with the cheapest options for the sentinel. Scout sentinels can infiltrate, armored ones can't. armored plasma sentinel seems nice, but its also the most expensive configuration. I'd go with the scout variant with multilaser or autocannon and pew pew transports/monstrous creatures. Stick them in a forest or something and you have a light, cheap unit thats almost a waste of time for your opponent to shoot at. Armoring makes them more of a point sink but doesn't improve their survivability enough.

I'd only use them to tarpit if the unit i'm delaying is several times the price of the sentinel itself.

In my opinion, front armor 12 isn't worth losing scout and move through cover. Especially since you pay more for it too.

That being said, if you're heart set on armored sentinels, they can be used to add more AV 12 saturation if you're running mechvets spam. I'd recommend autocannons or lascannons, depending on your local meta. If you see lots of AV 10-11 spam (razorspam, venomspam, etc) then the autocannons would get you the best bang for you buck, whereas if you see lots of AV 12+ the lascannons might help you pop that more reliably

I've been using the Armored Sentinels with Plasma Cannons is a good deal of my lists that i run, they might be the most expensive set up for a trio of them, But i do usually end up making it to the last turn with them still alive. They might not be the most competitive choice in the codex, But their is something.. entertaining.. about watching the trio drop templates on Mepheston/T-wolf Lord, and then kick them to the ground.

I only run the scouts. I use them as a cheap distraction unit that can cause havoc in many situations. Since I tent to outflank at least 3 units in every game I always have an Astropath, which greatly increases their utility. 3 scouts w/AC and an astropath are cheaper than 2 Armored with Plasma cannons. Then apply what the Astropath gives you to Valks. Vendettas, Harker, Marbo, Creed, Al-Rahem. It's just a big pile of win.

BB

stratassj wrote:I've been using the Armored Sentinels with Plasma Cannons is a good deal of my lists that i run, they might be the most expensive set up for a trio of them, But i do usually end up making it to the last turn with them still alive. They might not be the most competitive choice in the codex, But their is something.. entertaining.. about watching the trio drop templates on Mepheston/T-wolf Lord, and then kick them to the ground.

The only thing though is that for the cost of 3 armored sentinels with plasma cannons (225pts) , you can get a single executioner Leman russ with plasma sponsons for only 5pts more (230pts) and thats not counting the fact that you get 2 extra plasma shots, and an AV14/13 arc over an AV 12/10 arc.

That said, a Leman Russ can't stomp people to death in close combat , but I guess tank shocking with a russ is fun its own way.

I'd love to use sentinels more, but they just feel overpiced. Drop them by even 5 to 10pts, and I would use the heck out of them every chance I got.

I do like to use outflanking autocannon ones occasionally, but I always feel like the points could be better spent elsewhere. Which is a real shame, because they're such cool models.

As other people have said, armored sentinels are just way too expensive for what they do. Probably the most telling is...

MrMoustaffa wrote:The only thing though is that for the cost of 3 armored sentinels with plasma cannons (225pts) , you can get a single executioner Leman russ with plasma sponsons for only 5pts more (230pts) and thats not counting the fact that you get 2 extra plasma shots, and an AV14/13 arc over an AV 12/10 arc.

Personally, the only sentinel I like is scout sentinels with a lascannon. The scout keeps down the bloat of how much you pay for a single lascannon, and allows you to reserve them, meaning they'll get at least one solid shot off, and it's easier to tie stuff up in close combat. Meanwhile, the lascannon is an equal opportunity face-puncher. There is little as depressing in my mind as paying a big markup for a vehicle that just patters a few autocannon shots off the side of something before being anticlimactically wrecked.

I use armoured sentinels with autocannons usually. And depending on if I am bringing a vendetta squad or not, lascannons too.

I do also use a lot of autocannon heavy weapon teams, so the more autocannons the better.

I am a fan of the armored sentinel. I run two with auto cannons. They put out a decent amount of fire power, and, the best thing they can be used for is tarpitting units. I have tarpitted anything from eldar infantry units to blood tallon furiosso dreads. The front 12 is just tough to crack for some units.

I tend to run a single Armoured Sentinel with either a plasma cannon or lascannon, it can be very damaging to an opponent since they're most often concentrating on dealing with the more obvious problems like russes. A plasma cannon smack bang in the middle of an MEQ squad can cause quite a lot of grief.
On top of that, you'd be surprised how many units find it nearly impossible to take out AV12 in combat.

Ignatius wrote:I do also use a lot of autocannon heavy weapon teams, so the more autocannons the better.

Actually, it's the reverse of that. The more autocannons, the more you pidgeonhole your firepower into a single role. If anything, taking autocannon HWSs mean you more need heavy hitters than less.

martin74 wrote:I am a fan of the armored sentinel. I run two with auto cannons.

But for the price of two autocannon armored sentinels you can practically get two hydras. Instead of throwing down 2 autocannon hits per turn with 2 AV12 vehicles you put down 6 autocannon hits and 3 heavy bolter hits with 2 AV12 vehicles AND you ignore SMF.

If you've gotten your HS slots already full, and you want more mid-strength damage, you could take autocannon HWSs or a vet squad with an autocannon and a chimera, which will do the job either better or cheaper, and in either case with scoring.

I've got a lot of success out of using a single armoured sentinel to shoot at marines. For what they cost, they have tended to draw away a lot of fire compared to thier actual risk. I wouldn't use Scout versions for tarpitting though, tried that once only to realise that marines can punch them to death with thier fists, whereas watching marines try to slap a krak grenade on in close combat was just hilarious! Until they wise up that is...then its not funny anymore...

Ailaros wrote:

Ignatius wrote:I do also use a lot of autocannon heavy weapon teams, so the more autocannons the better.

Actually, it's the reverse of that. The more autocannons, the more you pidgeonhole your firepower into a single role. If anything, taking autocannon HWSs mean you more need heavy hitters than less.

martin74 wrote:I am a fan of the armored sentinel. I run two with auto cannons.

But for the price of two autocannon armored sentinels you can practically get two hydras. Instead of throwing down 2 autocannon hits per turn with 2 AV12 vehicles you put down 6 autocannon hits and 3 heavy bolter hits with 2 AV12 vehicles AND you ignore SMF.

If you've gotten your HS slots already full, and you want more mid-strength damage, you could take autocannon HWSs or a vet squad with an autocannon and a chimera, which will do the job either better or cheaper, and in either case with scoring.

There is no single "this is the answer and this is the best way to do things no matter what". What works for me may not work for you based on what the rest of your list looks like and the way you intend to play. I have have great success with my army. I have at least 6 heavy weapons teams a game. I said I have a lot of autocannons. But that didn't mean that I have no anti armor anywhere else.

And the OP wants sentinels, so bringing in anything else into this equation in mostly irrelevent.

Ignatius wrote:There is no single "this is the answer and this is the best way to do things no matter what". What works for me may not work for you based on what the rest of your list looks like and the way you intend to play. I have have great success with my army.

Certainly, there are many ways to play. That said, there are still numbers, and there are still facts. If you're making recommendations based on your own personal experience of a few games, how do you know that the advice you're giving will be true for another person like it has been true for you? Maybe you've been really lucky with your armored sentinels. Maybe you've been playing against worse opponents than he does. Maybe lots of things. How can you be sure that your subjective experience set is able to yield objective advice that anyone can follow?

When you compare autocannon armored sentinels to other things in an objective world (using, say, math), you can see that they're inferior to other options. If any particular person has success otherwise, it doesn't invalidate the general truth, it just means that that person is experiencing an anomaly.

Ignatius wrote:And the OP wants sentinels, so bringing in anything else into this equation in mostly irrelevent.

Actually, bringing what else is in his list, and what his local meta is into consideration is very relevant, as is comparing units with others within the same codex.

If the op wants sentinels, there are better and worse ways to field them, depending on a lot of factors. If he wants the strongest options, then he should listen to good advice (that's what the tactics forum is here, for, after all). If he doesn't care about the strength of his choices, then he should have asked what sentinel options look the coolest, or which ones are easier to paint (or whatever else he cares about), and not put them in a tactics forum.

Ailaros wrote:

Ignatius wrote:There is no single "this is the answer and this is the best way to do things no matter what". What works for me may not work for you based on what the rest of your list looks like and the way you intend to play. I have have great success with my army.

Certainly, there are many ways to play. That said, there are still numbers, and there are still facts. If you're making recommendations based on your own personal experience of a few games, how do you know that the advice you're giving will be true for another person like it has been true for you? Maybe you've been really lucky with your armored sentinels. Maybe you've been playing against worse opponents than he does. Maybe lots of things. How can you be sure that your subjective experience set is able to yield objective advice that anyone can follow?

When you compare autocannon armored sentinels to other things in an objective world (using, say, math), you can see that they're inferior to other options. If any particular person has success otherwise, it doesn't invalidate the general truth, it just means that that person is experiencing an anomaly.

Ignatius wrote:And the OP wants sentinels, so bringing in anything else into this equation in mostly irrelevent.

Actually, bringing what else is in his list, and what his local meta is into consideration is very relevant, as is comparing units with others within the same codex.

If the op wants sentinels, there are better and worse ways to field them, depending on a lot of factors. If he wants the strongest options, then he should listen to good advice (that's what the tactics forum is here, for, after all). If he doesn't care about the strength of his choices, then he should have asked what sentinel options look the coolest, or which ones are easier to paint (or whatever else he cares about), and not put them in a tactics forum.

Like, most situations, I agree completely with you. I've come to accept that we have pretty much the same view for most of the tactical situations that are brought up pertaining to the Imperial Guard on this forum. I am just stating that I love sentinels, and will use them simply because of this love. I assumed the OP felt the same way, after all he is using them in the first place- which of course requires some kind of sacrifice in terms of competitveness.

So if the OP is like me, then I would think it would be acceptable for me to tell him what I use.

Of course Hydras are a much better cost effective way of pouring autocannon shots out. As are heavy weapons teams. But if he wants sentinels, then he wants sentinels.

I fething love them. Very effective way at getting armor saturation in low cost games.

I like to run scouts with multi-lasers. They have the ability to take out light armor, and have decent wounding potential with S6.

I'll typically just run them with multi-lasers. My purpose for using them is to try and sneak a rear armor shot in with an outflank roll or tarpit units that can't hurt them, so I like to keep them as cheap as possible.

I actually sometimes use Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers to root out soft targets out of cover and occassionally tie up a unit. at 40 points a pop, I'd say it's a worthwhile investment =D

SoliderSnake wrote:I actually sometimes use Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers to root out soft targets out of cover and occassionally tie up a unit. at 40 points a pop, I'd say it's a worthwhile investment =D

But arent heavy flamer scount sentinels 50pts a pop? That said, if you know your local meta involves lots of foot lists or hiding weaker infantry in the back for support, they could be a hilarious/effective option. My problem with using those though is that for 15 pts more, I can get marbo, and he shows up wherever I want, has an Ap2 S8 demo charge, and if he lives can wreck stuff in close combat. Since I usually only consider my scout sentinel for low point games, its a big deal, as its either marbo or the sentinel. You can probably guess who wins.

Teams of Scout Sent. Hvy Flamers can change the tide of battle real fast.

One thing i always to is build the sentinel as an armored one (i like the look better) and you can always say that they are scouts with lower AV, sneaky Flamer sentinels get around a shoddy bs 3.
I tend to run then as AC platforms since they are pretty solid.

I'm beginning to think that my army is the odd man out on some of these things...

Before I reverted all my Sentinels into my Drop Guard, I used to field an Armored Sentinel with a heavy flamer and dog behind my Flamer Vets in their Chimera.

The combo terrified anything +5 (Genestealers especially) and it didn't hurt to throw in another flamer template before having it charge with the Vets.

MrMoustaffa wrote:

SoliderSnake wrote:I actually sometimes use Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers to root out soft targets out of cover and occassionally tie up a unit. at 40 points a pop, I'd say it's a worthwhile investment =D

But arent heavy flamer scount sentinels 50pts a pop? That said, if you know your local meta involves lots of foot lists or hiding weaker infantry in the back for support, they could be a hilarious/effective option. My problem with using those though is that for 15 pts more, I can get marbo, and he shows up wherever I want, has an Ap2 S8 demo charge, and if he lives can wreck stuff in close combat. Since I usually only consider my scout sentinel for low point games, its a big deal, as its either marbo or the sentinel. You can probably guess who wins.

mfw Scout Sentinels w/ heavy Flamers are 50pts. No my fellow Guardsman, they're 35 base. In my lists, If I got an extra 80 points floating around, you bet your bottom dollar it'll be spent on a couple of them to go in addition to Marbo. Like the little mexican girl in those racist mexican taco commercials:


"Por que no podemos tener los dos?" (Why can't we have both?)

Armoured sentinels are pretty good screeners. Use them to cover chimera side armor or block disembarking guardsmen from assault. For the points though I go with a lascannon scout sentinel. You can outflank it if you want, or scout move, plus the AV12 doesnt always make a difference.

What's wrong with multi-lasers? Cheap and gives that S6 3 shots that is missing if you run foot guard. They are there to protect the blob and can tie up any non-power fist unit nicely. In my foot list I often run sentinels and rough riders to keep people off my HQ, HWS etc.

For decent shooting you have vendettas in FA or the 3 HS slots. Autocannons I have seen run but seem a bit pricey to me. Hydra shooting is undoubtedly better but it depends on where you take your amrour from. If you go 3 vendettas you get the autocannons etc from HS, but if you want to run mass Russes etc then the FA choices can support this.

Multilasers aren't that good because S6 isn't that good. Yes, I know that there are eldar players out there...

The problem is that S6, even with lots of shots, is going to struggle against rhinos, and can't do anything more than attempt to glance-kill AV12 by stripping all its weapons off. Meanwhile, Ap6 is awful, meaning you can never catch infantry out in the open. It doesn't matter if it gets three shots if its damage per shot is so low.

You could spend only 35 points points for a flimsy unit to show up that will do little damage, or you could spend 55 points (still pretty cheap) for a flimsy unit that can at least threaten everything before it dies.

SoliderSnake wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:

SoliderSnake wrote:I actually sometimes use Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers to root out soft targets out of cover and occassionally tie up a unit. at 40 points a pop, I'd say it's a worthwhile investment =D

But arent heavy flamer scount sentinels 50pts a pop? That said, if you know your local meta involves lots of foot lists or hiding weaker infantry in the back for support, they could be a hilarious/effective option. My problem with using those though is that for 15 pts more, I can get marbo, and he shows up wherever I want, has an Ap2 S8 demo charge, and if he lives can wreck stuff in close combat. Since I usually only consider my scout sentinel for low point games, its a big deal, as its either marbo or the sentinel. You can probably guess who wins.

mfw Scout Sentinels w/ heavy Flamers are 50pts. No my fellow Guardsman, they're 35 base. In my lists, If I got an extra 80 points floating around, you bet your bottom dollar it'll be spent on a couple of them to go in addition to Marbo. Like the little mexican girl in those racist mexican taco commercials:


"Por que no podemos tener los dos?" (Why can't we have both?)

I follow the "Guardsmen before toyz" method of thinking, so buying a sentinel AND Marbo in low points games is rare (aka 1000pts or less) I will never take both unless I'm doing something for fun, or just want to outflank as much as I can. Even just 35 to 40pts can buy you a lot gear for your guardsmen, or put you halfway towards your next infantry squad. That can also help up 4 autocannons to lascannons, buy you 2 power weapons and a couple of melta, almost get you a chimera, etc.

What I'm saying is, I don't really take them in big games, because I think they shine in the smaller ones. It's basically a heavy weapon team that can walk and shoot, move through cover, outflank, and has no LD issues. If I want a little insurance against vehicles hiding out of LOS, or just want some extra dakka for my outflanking Al'Rahem platoon, I'll usually bring one with an autocannon. I know lascannons are more deadly, but for the stuff I'm going after with the sentinel, two shots of S7 do much better than one S9. It's usually shooting at AV10 and has no problem with that at all. That said, I've been using them less and less lately, as I keep finding better ways to spend that 40pts elsewhere in my lists. Which makes me sad, because I would love nothing more than to field tons of the little guys on the table for most games...