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I am wanting a few questions answered from those of you with more experience than myself in regards to the Grey Knights.

1. What are the merits of running Purifiers in a Razorback over a Rhino (if any)?? Please explain.

2. Is psybolt ammo worth buying for your troop units, or just keep it limited to the Dreads?? Please Explain.

3. Are Purgation Squads worth the heavy slot, or again as above, keep the slot open for Dreads?? Please Explain.

Thank you.

End of Line

Rhapsody wrote:I am wanting a few questions answered from those of you with more experience than myself in regards to the Grey Knights.

1. What are the merits of running Purifiers in a Razorback over a Rhino (if any)?? Please explain.

2. Is psybolt ammo worth buying for your troop units, or just keep it limited to the Dreads?? Please Explain.

3. Are Purgation Squads worth the heavy slot, or again as above, keep the slot open for Dreads?? Please Explain.

Thank you.

End of Line

1) Purifiers can get 2 psy for 5 guys, so a rhino often is a better choice than the Razorback.
2) Not really. Ask yourself if S5 Storm Bolters are worth the cost?
3) Some folks have done good things with them. A local uses Purgation with Incinerators in a Storm Raven. They cook the crud out of whatever they get aimed at. For the most part, however, Dreads give you that critical long range AT.

I dont understand what ur asking.....Pick Any unit, and do anything with that unit.

How do you need tactic help with an army that has no tactical flaws?

Smitty0305 wrote:I dont understand what ur asking.....Pick Any unit, and do anything with that unit.

How do you need tactic help with an army that has no tactical flaws?

That's a bit out there. The GK book is good but it isn't a win button. You can't make any list you want, play it anyway you want and expect to win.

pretre wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:I dont understand what ur asking.....Pick Any unit, and do anything with that unit.

How do you need tactic help with an army that has no tactical flaws?

That's a bit out there. The GK book is good but it isn't a win button. You can't make any list you want, play it anyway you want and expect to win.

Sure you can

Smitty0305 wrote:I dont understand what ur asking.....Pick Any unit, and do anything with that unit.

How do you need tactic help with an army that has no tactical flaws?

If you don't have anything to contribute then don't post this. There's really no need for this especially when in the GK book there are better choices to be made over others.

OP to answer what I can:

1) Only advantage of putting Purifiers in Razorbacks is that you can deploy your Purifiers outside of their Dedicated Transport and have the Razorbacks up front. In other words you pay to have 4 Psycannons essentially. 2 of them are mounted on the Razorback, but always count as being Assault 2 (essentially) while the other 2 Psycannons are in the 5 man Purifier Squad.

2) Psybolt Ammo is ok. GK is a mid-field shooting army so S5 means a higher chance to wound. That's a good thing, but its often times overpriced for Strike Squads and other squads. If you are running 10 man squads that have lots of Storm Bolters I'd recommend them only if points allow. Usually imo its not worth it.

3) Purgations could work, but I don't have experience with them and can't really say much. The lack of Long Range firepower puts a damper on the GK army so those Dreads fill a very important and needed role. In my opinion I'd only run 1 Purgation Squad, but its possible someone out there could possible make use of three of those squads and win with it.

1. What are the merits of running Purifiers in a Razorback over a Rhino (if any)?? Please explain.
I run 3 squads of 5 with 2 psycannons in razors. I have never tried a rhino however, so cannot really say why you should run one over the other, ive just always put them in bolterbacks. With that said, they are my favorite units.

2. Is psybolt ammo worth buying for your troop units, or just keep it limited to the Dreads?? Please Explain.
10 man units you really should have psybolt, as 8 storm bolters with it can be devastating. 5 man units though, it just costs too much.

3. Are Purgation Squads worth the heavy slot, or again as above, keep the slot open for Dreads?? Please Explain.
Keep the slot open for dreads, for 2 reasons. 1-you can get enough anti infantry in the form of storm bolters/purifier cleansing flame/multi shot weapons. grey knights are an army bursting at the seams with multi shot weapons, so I dont think theres a reason to bring specific anti tank. You get lots and lots of psycannons elsewhere. I use my purifiers as gun batteries and counter charge units more than anything.

You really need the dreads because gk have no other effective options for long range anti tank. What else is there? Godhammers, which are incredibly expensive and inneficient, and storm ravens, which are expensive and vulnerable. Neither of these shoot as well as dreads either. You cant run an army that only shoots at 24" or less, ask nids.

Finally, I would say dreads are huge for what i call the 'scrub factor'. Psyfleman are the 'big cheesy thing' right now. So when scrubs see 3 of them, they tend to get whiny/assume they are going to lose to the 'psyfleman cheese'. While the logic of this is abysmal, its how bad players think. So take them for the very much needed ranged anti tank, and the psychological effect is a benefit.

Smitty0305: Ur ability to actually spell things out, and/or be helpful is mind blowing... Either help somebody out, or go troll elsewhere...

Here are my general thoughts regarding my questions:

1. Why pay more points for a vehicle that does not have fire points on it, and who's weapon does not pump out the same kind of firepower as 2 psycannons out of the rhino's fire points. Seems like a waste too me. I will be running my units in Rhino's.

2. I concur with the majority here as well. But there was that little voice in my head ( I should get that checked out I guess... ) telling me that all of those Storm Bolter shots becoming St5 is a good idea. I am running 5 man packs however and agree that for the points, it's just not worth it when running smaller packs.

3. I want to try the Purgation squads out, if only just to say I did. I am currently running two Psyflemen and a NDK in my heavy slots. The NDK is there for the 'OH SHEEET' factor, and to break up what you refereed to as 'the Scrub Factor', Eldolon. Plus the model is so awesome, how could I not use one!!??

One more question: Why does nobody use the Gatling Psilencer?? Is it the AP- that is turning you away?? I though that a gun unloading 12 shots on a unit was good, but I could be wrong... What are you thoughts??

End of Line

Psybolts really isn't worth it on 5 man squads. On a purifier squad with 2 psycannons that is almost 7 points a model(as the psycannons don't benifit)

On a 10 man squad it drops down to a little over 3 points a model(assuming 4 psycannons)


I always run 10 man squads in Rhinos FWIW. Its a larger squad, I save points on Psybolts, and 4 stationary psycannons put out an obscene amount of fire power.

I often combat squad the 4 psycannons and a halberd babysitter and stick them in cover somewhere. They basically create a 24" no-go zone for just about everything.

Grey Templar wrote:Psybolts really isn't worth it on 5 man squads. On a purifier squad with 2 psycannons that is almost 7 points a model(as the psycannons don't benifit)

On a 10 man squad it drops down to a little over 3 points a model(assuming 4 psycannons)


I always run 10 man squads in Rhinos FWIW. Its a larger squad, I save points on Psybolts, and 4 stationary psycannons put out an obscene amount of fire power.

I often combat squad the 4 psycannons and a halberd babysitter and stick them in cover somewhere. They basically create a 24" no-go zone for just about everything.

What do you mean,almost 7 points a model?

That's less than a standard Necron warrior with a flayer (13 points a model). Or a Kabalite warrior (9 points a model). Or a Wych (10 points a model).

Rhapsody wrote:One more question: Why does nobody use the Gatling Psilencer?? Is it the AP- that is turning you away?? I though that a gun unloading 12 shots on a unit was good, but I could be wrong... What are you thoughts??

I think its because most people try and keep their Dreadknight as cheap as possible and will often take the Incinerator since the Psilencer does the same job. Also the Incinerator is S6 AP4 versus only S4.

Decio wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Psybolts really isn't worth it on 5 man squads. On a purifier squad with 2 psycannons that is almost 7 points a model(as the psycannons don't benifit)

On a 10 man squad it drops down to a little over 3 points a model(assuming 4 psycannons)


I always run 10 man squads in Rhinos FWIW. Its a larger squad, I save points on Psybolts, and 4 stationary psycannons put out an obscene amount of fire power.

I often combat squad the 4 psycannons and a halberd babysitter and stick them in cover somewhere. They basically create a 24" no-go zone for just about everything.

What do you mean,almost 7 points a model?

That's less than a standard Necron warrior with a flayer (13 points a model). Or a Kabalite warrior (9 points a model). Or a Wych (10 points a model).

I'm not sure what you mean?

That's 7 points on top of an already 26 point model.

5 Purifiers with 2 psycannons, 3 halberds, and Psybolts is 166 points. Without transport, that is already clocking in at 33.3 points each.

10 Purifiers with 4 psycannons, 5 halberds, daemonhammer, and psybolts is 31.5 points a model.

There are pros and cons to running in rhinos/razorbacks.

Assuming you're only running a 5 man squad.

A razorback has more firepower overall (it has a heavy weapon attached, and the squad inside.) It can move 12" and fire a weapon (Passengers can only fire if the vehicle moves at combat speed.)

It also costs more for these benefits, and you have to disembark the squad to make use of their weapons in addition to the razorback's weaponry.

The rhino is cheaper, and it has firing points for the squad inside to make the most of the transport's protection while still providing a threat. It can also carry a larger squad, which means more psycannons.

However, it can't move more than 6" and be a threat thanks to the rules for passengers firing.

Personally (and I add the caveat that I am not a grey knights player) I'd say the Rhino has a slight edge due to its ability to transport larger squads, and firing points. Str 6 twin-linked heavy bolters are pretty awesome though.

I sometimes take a Psyback(with Assault Cannon instead of HB) along with a 10 man squad. I usually end up combat squadding the squad this way, but it does add a nice amount of fire power.

Razorbacks are nice even if you don't ever use the transport capacity.

I can see how a 10 man squad with 4x Psycannons combat squading to place all 4 PC's in cover could be a good idea. I am personally on the fence about the points for the 1500 level I plan on at least starting at. Once I hit 2K, I can see that tactic becoming much more feasible.

I suppose the Heavy Incinerator was overlooked due to most 'flamers' being sub-par. I didn't realize that the HI was Str 6 and the cheapest of the shooty weapons available to the NDK.

Thanks for the mathhammering Grey Templar, I never look at points costs that way. It really makes sense once you break it down and actually see the cost effectiveness of the 'upgrade'.

Great stuff so far everybody!!

End of Line

10 GKSS
2 Psycannons
1 Hammer
Psybolt
Rhino+serch light

291 pts, works well

Grey Templar wrote:

Decio wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Psybolts really isn't worth it on 5 man squads. On a purifier squad with 2 psycannons that is almost 7 points a model(as the psycannons don't benifit)

On a 10 man squad it drops down to a little over 3 points a model(assuming 4 psycannons)


I always run 10 man squads in Rhinos FWIW. Its a larger squad, I save points on Psybolts, and 4 stationary psycannons put out an obscene amount of fire power.

I often combat squad the 4 psycannons and a halberd babysitter and stick them in cover somewhere. They basically create a 24" no-go zone for just about everything.

What do you mean,almost 7 points a model?

That's less than a standard Necron warrior with a flayer (13 points a model). Or a Kabalite warrior (9 points a model). Or a Wych (10 points a model).

I'm not sure what you mean?

That's 7 points on top of an already 26 point model.

5 Purifiers with 2 psycannons, 3 halberds, and Psybolts is 166 points. Without transport, that is already clocking in at 33.3 points each.

10 Purifiers with 4 psycannons, 5 halberds, daemonhammer, and psybolts is 31.5 points a model.

Oh, sorry. I just realized you were only referring to the psybolts and not the whole model. Again, sorry.

Grey Templar wrote:Psybolts really isn't worth it on 5 man squads. On a purifier squad with 2 psycannons that is almost 7 points a model(as the psycannons don't benifit).

Sorry to sidetrack the discussion but what do you mean by Psycannons dont benefit from Psybolt ammo? I only ask cos a mate has been running a lot of them and so much S8 rending has been killing me

KR

The Psybolt ammo description in the armory is very explicit what is effected by Psybolts.

Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Heavy Bolters, Stormbolters, Assault Cannons, and Autocannons. Nothing more nothing less.

Well b****r me sideways with a fishfork!

Many thanks for that

KR

1. What are the merits of running Purifiers in a Razorback over a Rhino (if any)?? Please explain.
Many people want to use them in rhino's to keep them inside and shoot the psycannons
The razorbacks have the advantage of increasing your total available firepower, getting some S6 36" range, but you sacrifice being able to fire from inside so you lose a little survivability.


2. Is psybolt ammo worth buying for your troop units, or just keep it limited to the Dreads?? Please Explain.
I'm a big fan of the teleport squads with incinerators and psybolt


3. Are Purgation Squads worth the heavy slot, or again as above, keep the slot open for Dreads?? Please Explain.
Dreads fill a gap at long range firepower, which is less of an issue if you run henchmen or some other lists. Purgatation squads with flamers or psycannon are great anti-horde if that is where you are lacking.

Rhapsody wrote:I am wanting a few questions answered from those of you with more experience than myself in regards to the Grey Knights.
1. What are the merits of running Purifiers in a Razorback over a Rhino (if any)?? Please explain.

5 man squad with 2 psycannons can fire out of the firepoints in Rhino, giving you better firepower inside 24" range if you stay embarked.

Rhapsody wrote:
2. Is psybolt ammo worth buying for your troop units, or just keep it limited to the Dreads?? Please Explain.

IMO Psybolt ammo is worth it for 10 man units, but not for smaller ones. 5 man purifier squad pays 6.7 ppm (points per model) for the 3 storm bolters that actually benefit from it, definitely not worth the cost.
Now, on 10 man strike/interceptor squad which have 8 storm bolters it's different issue and I'd buy it for them at 2.5 ppm. Especially Interceptors get good use out of it.

Rhapsody wrote:
3. Are Purgation Squads worth the heavy slot, or again as above, keep the slot open for Dreads?? Please Explain.

Reason for getting Dreadnoughts instead of Purgation squads is not that Purgation Squads are somehow poor, but that Dreadnoughts fill much needed hole in the army: Long range firepower.
But remember that you can also use Venerable Dreadnoughts for the same role, so you can test out Purgation Squads too, even if you have 3 dreadnoughts.

1. I feel that in many cases people like to play GK like other marine armies where you keep your guys in thiere little metal boxes as long as possible. This is not the way IMO to play GK. GK are better getting out of thier boxes and shooting with all thier guns not just 2 of them. If you feel this way then having another Psi cannon (assault cannon with psi ammo) or str 6 heavy bolter (which adds vital 36' range) is really helpful. Rhinos def are only better if you run purifers in 5 man squads, for GKSS run them with Razors.

2. Psi ammo is IMO only really usefull on Psi Dreads, assault cannon Razors and full 10 man GKSS squads. 8 men gettin +1 str storm bolters is worth 20pts and 2 twin acs or an assault cannon getting +1 str for 5pts is a steal. Not much else really benifits enough to justify the cost, even Purifiers with 6 men getting +1 str bolters is not quite worth the 20pts imo.

3. IMO you want your heavy support choices to be able to project power accross the board. 24" ranged weapons dont do that. Psi dreads do and are amoung the only units in the GK codex that can. Psi dreads > purgation squads in almost every GK build you can imagine. The purifiers and GKSS allready provide your psi cannons.

4. The gatlling psilencer suffers from simlar issues with the purgation squads, your basic troops already provide tons of anti infantry dakka, what you need from your Dreadknight is something the rest of your army does not do, like a str6 ap4 ignores cover template...