Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all, I'm new to fantasy but with a good deal of 40k experience with nids. I'm playing lizzies because dinosaurs. 2000 pt list is as follows:

Lords: Slann (usually Life, will try out light against TK, VC and other stuffs light is super-effective against )
Focus of Mystery, focused rumination, becalming cogitation, Cupped Hands, Sun Standard of Chotec

Heroes: Lvl 2 Skink Priest scroll caddy on EOTG

Core:
6x3 saurus with HW/SH and full command

6x3 saurus same as above

5x2 skink block with musician for free reform

5x2 skink block same as above

Special: 16 Temple Guard with full command and a sword of the hornet on the champion to take challenges.

7 Chamo skinks with a stalker

Rare: 2 salamanders (run separately)

Total: 1999

Basically, TG and saurus form a fairly wide, really hard main line, while Slann abuses magic all over everyone's face. Skinks redirect/absorb charges, and/or damage what they can with poison. If taking charges isn't necessary, (i.e. facing stuff that won't benefit from getting the charge) they spread outside the flanks of the main line, hang back and attempt to score a flank charge to negate ranks. Chamos snipe vulnerable priority targets early, especially warhmachines. Salamanders are one to each flank (usually) doing salamandery things, like burninating the countryside, burninating peasants, etc. EOTG is largely a support unit, behind the main line conferring the ward save to help protect my slow army from shooting. When we get stuck in, he'll do burning alignment and charge what needs to be charged by a giant triceratops/styracosaurus. My two most frequent opponents (who are both expanding to fantasy from 40k as well) will be playing Empire and VC.

So, what do y'all think of my list? And/or the general strategy (not exactly the place, but might as well consolidate the posts). Thanks all.

Well...I don't like the look of the cohorts that much. But then again, that is due to my personal preference of using skirmishers.

I would replace the hornet sword with the gold sigil sword, which should free up 10 points or so. Hornet sword isn't worth it on a 1 wound model I found, and ini10 is usually enough.

Salamanders and EoTG are fine, though the lvl2 priest might be overkill. Its already a large investment, and if that priest dies the EoTG suddenly becomes useless.

Good luck using the chamos; they are really difficult to use properly. Though this is going from my own experiences. YMMV.

Oh, and whatever you do DO NOT charge with the EoTG, unless you are certain that you will break the enemy squad quickly. The EoTG is not an assault monster; it primarily has a support roll and hang behind the rest of the army, giving them free ward saves or nuking anything that charges the nice meat wall in front him.

Can I toss something out there? Here's where I would tweak the list to:

Slann - BSB, focus of LIGHT, rumination, becalming, cupped balls = 445

Skink Priest - dawnstone, dispel scroll, engine = 405

18 Saurus - full command = 228
18 Saurus - full command = 228
10 Skinks - musician = 56
10 Skinks - musician = 56

16 Temple Guard - full command, burning blade = 311
5 Camo Skinks = 60
5 Camo Skinks = 60

Salamander = 75
Salamander = 75
---------
1999

Not overly mindblowing, m'right? Basically cleans up the sun standard (BS-based shooting isn't too useful, or if it is it can get around the extra negatives or shoot your sallies or something anyway) and the extra level on the priest (what were you casting with this guy when you've got 7 spells with the ruminating toad?), to give the priest a rerolled 2+ armor and find more camo skinks in more units. Also, you obviously can't take light whenever it suits you, you need to include it in your army list. Luckily for you, your multiple combat units suggest that light and its bubbled spells would help your army more than life would. It will conveniently make you a better general and win you more friends, in case either of those matter to you

But yea, it's strong stuff already, can just be tweaked out for more power / versatility.

- Salvage

Oh crap, you have to say the lore in the army list?
Crap, I've been doing it wrong

Boss Salvage wrote:Can I toss something out there? Here's where I would tweak the list to:

Slann - BSB, focus of LIGHT, rumination, becalming, cupped balls = 445

Skink Priest - dawnstone, dispel scroll, engine = 405

18 Saurus - full command = 228
18 Saurus - full command = 228
10 Skinks - musician = 56
10 Skinks - musician = 56

16 Temple Guard - full command, burning blade = 311
5 Camo Skinks = 60
5 Camo Skinks = 60

Salamander = 75
Salamander = 75
---------
1999

Not overly mindblowing, m'right? Basically cleans up the sun standard (BS-based shooting isn't too useful, or if it is it can get around the extra negatives or shoot your sallies or something anyway) and the extra level on the priest (what were you casting with this guy when you've got 7 spells with the ruminating toad?), to give the priest a rerolled 2+ armor and find more camo skinks in more units. Also, you obviously can't take light whenever it suits you, you need to include it in your army list. Luckily for you, your multiple combat units suggest that light and its bubbled spells would help your army more than life would. It will conveniently make you a better general and win you more friends, in case either of those matter to you

But yea, it's strong stuff already, can just be tweaked out for more power / versatility.

- Salvage

Well, I'm new enough to fantasy that I haven't played any games yet (and in fact am still buying/building models.
You may well have a point about the sun standard. I basically just included to help ease the sheer "shoot me please" status of the TG unit. Also, would a magic standard be among the magical items that wouldn't be revealed to my opponent? Honestly the lizardmen banners just seem to good to not have one- even if not the sun standard, a skavenpelt banner on TG just seems like it would be nasty, and how good is the plaque of dominion really?

Why burning blade on the TG champ? He's I2 with one wound- if he's gonna win a challenge, he'll need to hit first. I could definitely see switching to the gold sigil sword, though I'm honestly not sure what I'd do with the extra points. Maybe an extra chamo skink if I'm allowed to go a bit over (our friendly games almost always allow that sort of range, and it'll be a while before I take lizzies to tournaments)

.As for light v life, I'll probably run several test games with each to see how they work with my army, as I've heard numerous times it basically comes down to personal preference for lizzies. I'm rather on the fence right now. Light is definitely more offensive, while life is defensive. Lizardmen, especially my list, seem like a rather defensive force for the most part, so I'll see whether it's better to reinforce that with life or complement it with light.

On the lvl 2 skink priest: If I run the life Slann, two of his spells (probably the second and fifth-best spells in the lore) are RIP, so after the first turn he seems like he'll use 9-10 dice max (not sure I see the point in just throwing buttloads of dice at dwellers, especially if cupped hands has already been used. Alternatively, there are several nice spells in heavens that the priest has a decent chance of getting off: curse of the midnight wind makes it nearly impossible for a unit to damage a saurus or TG block that's under FTS. Harmonic convergence, especially the bigger version if the slann managed to whiff something, greatly increases damage output. Iceshard blizzard seems great against war machines, which we otherwise have only chamo skinks to deal with. The last three spells could prove useful should I need to deal more damage in my magic phase instead of making my units more tanky.
tl;dr lvl 2 has better chance of getting (and using) curse of the midnight wind or harmonic convergence which mesh beautifully with lizzies, especially a life slann.

Finally, when you say dawnstone, do you mean luckstone? And really, cupped balls?

Lemme pull out some questions and see what light I can shed ...

Texan_tyrant wrote:Also, would a magic standard be among the magical items that wouldn't be revealed to my opponent? Honestly the lizardmen banners just seem to good to not have one- even if not the sun standard, a skavenpelt banner on TG just seems like it would be nasty, and how good is the plaque of dominion really?

Yes, if you're playing open lists - as most of America does - than the banner is revealed as well. The issue with the sun standard is that BS shooting doesn't matter much, and is largely used to remove chaff units or get lucky vs war machines or other single model targets. As to the other banners, I don't have my book with me to see what they do ... but my ignorance of them should show that they aren't used very often. And with the lizard book in particular, if they aren't used often than they aren't used at all and ought to be avoided (Is the plaque of dominion the 2+ ward vs shooting for the slann? Definitely useful, but more so for a solo slann who is more likely to be targeted by stuff independently of a unit, which normally shields him or provides a LOS! roll at least.)

Why burning blade on the TG champ? He's I2 with one wound- if he's gonna win a challenge, he'll need to hit first. I could definitely see switching to the gold sigil sword, though I'm honestly not sure what I'd do with the extra points. Maybe an extra chamo skink if I'm allowed to go a bit over (our friendly games almost always allow that sort of range, and it'll be a while before I take lizzies to tournaments)

Burning blade is there to fend off both ethereal and regen threats, as well as crack armor for a cheap 20 points. It's not really intended to deal with challengers, but he still could with 3 S4 attaks (and a 3+ armor I think?). Also, you should keep in mind that with light magic he could easily be WS10 and I10, perhaps with ASF too, so buying either ASF sword or I10 sword may not mean a thing beyond having magical attaks ...

Light is definitely more offensive, while life is defensive. Lizardmen, especially my list, seem like a rather defensive force for the most part, so I'll see whether it's better to reinforce that with life or complement it with light.

Typically life caters more to a list with 1-2 blocks and a stegadon, along with loads of shooty chaff units. The basic plan is to make the temple guard invincible, lifebloom the stegadon and dwellers the fakk out of everything that survives the ocean of poisoned shots and salamander templates. It is also extremely unpleasant to play against. Light plays a more flexible (and rewarding) game oriented around winning combats through winning and not attrition or dwellers, and caters to lists with multiple combat units (which can include timewarped stegs too!)

On the lvl 2 skink priest: If I run the life Slann, two of his spells (probably the second and fifth-best spells in the lore) are RIP, so after the first turn he seems like he'll use 9-10 dice max (not sure I see the point in just throwing buttloads of dice at dwellers, especially if cupped hands has already been used. Alternatively, there are several nice spells in heavens that the priest has a decent chance of getting off: curse of the midnight wind makes it nearly impossible for a unit to damage a saurus or TG block that's under FTS. Harmonic convergence, especially the bigger version if the slann managed to whiff something, greatly increases damage output. Iceshard blizzard seems great against war machines, which we otherwise have only chamo skinks to deal with. The last three spells could prove useful should I need to deal more damage in my magic phase instead of making my units more tanky.
tl;dr lvl 2 has better chance of getting (and using) curse of the midnight wind or harmonic convergence which mesh beautifully with lizzies, especially a life slann.

True enough, both bubbled hexes/augments from heavens are awesomesauce. If you do run life with multiple units, the rerolls will certainly be nice to have. Thing is, there are only so many winds dice to go around, and it just seems a sure thing that you'll have your most proficient caster (including the toad's extra ruminated dice) cast the 1-3 spells for that phase, rather than finesse it out between the two. Though that is certainly possible.

Finally, when you say dawnstone, do you mean luckstone?

I mean dawnstone, the talisman that rerolls all armor saves. Luckstone costs 1/5 and just does the one.

And really, cupped balls?

You can thank Podhammer for the turn of phrase, but really once you toss a dimensional cascade onto the enemy wizard and blow him away with your own miscast you'll see that the item deserves the renaming. (Though there are quite a few players who no longer think the 45 point arcane item is worth the points, or the sports ding.)

- Salvage

Boss Salvage wrote:Lemme pull out some questions and see what light I can shed ...
Yes, if you're playing open lists - as most of America does - than the banner is revealed as well. The issue with the sun standard is that BS shooting doesn't matter much, and is largely used to remove chaff units or get lucky vs war machines or other single model targets. As to the other banners, I don't have my book with me to see what they do ... but my ignorance of them should show that they aren't used very often. And with the lizard book in particular, if they aren't used often than they aren't used at all and ought to be avoided (Is the plaque of dominion the 2+ ward vs shooting for the slann? Definitely useful, but more so for a solo slann who is more likely to be targeted by stuff independently of a unit, which normally shields him or provides a LOS! roll at least.)
- Salvage

plaque of dominion is the one that forces enemy psykers within 18" and LOS to operate under stupidity. The skavenpelt banner grants frenzy (the LD test would almost always be passed) which includes an extra attack. 33% increase in TG attacks? Yes please. The Immune to Psychology part is meh though.

Boss Salvage wrote:Burning blade is there to fend off both ethereal and regen threats, as well as crack armor for a cheap 20 points. It's not really intended to deal with challengers, but he still could with 3 S4 attaks (and a 3+ armor I think?). Also, you should keep in mind that with light magic he could easily be WS10 and I10, perhaps with ASF too, so buying either ASF sword or I10 sword may not mean a thing beyond having magical attaks ...

Exactly. With those 3 S4 attacks, he can handle most any other champion (and some characters) in a challenge, but not if he dies before he can get his attacks off (which he likely will against anything burning blade would be useful against anyway, no?) He takes hits well, but he can only take one, so getting in those 3 powerful attacks first would (to me at least) seem to be the key. I spose I could try burning blade when I experiment with light and a quickstrike weapon when trying out life. Either way, both handle ethereal threats. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that most ethereal units actually have a rather poor armor save, and depend instead on a ward and their invulnerability to mundane attacks to survive.

Seeing as how I don't have to change any models for it, I'll try out both life and light, and see how I and my buddies like it. Yeah, not sure how I managed to pass over the dawnstone. But really though, how much that's gonna be targeting a Steg is going to allow armor saves at all? Word on the web is it's mostly cannons and/or magic (the steg takes purple sun REAL hard).

uh Mate, check your army book, but I think the skavenpelt banner is limited to only skinks.

Yes, most ethereal units do have a terrible armor save.
They also are generally a bit faster than TG.