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Still believe atheists aren't religious? This same group want's atheist chaplains.(which is fine with me...just quit pretending you aren't a religion)


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/atheists-demand-marines-remove-cross-intended-to-commemorate-the-lives-of-fallen-u-s-soldiers/

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Atheists Demand Marines Remove Cross Commemorating Fallen U.S. Soldiers


An atheist group is clashing with U.S. marines at Camp Pendleton in California. The group, the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (MAAF), is demanding that a cross that was put up on the base to commemorate fallen soldiers be removed.

In recent months, the MAAF has made a splash by taking on Christian themes in the military and championing atheism in the U.S. Armed Forces. Led by Jason Torpy, who was a West Point graduate and who fought in Iraq, the group seems to be following along the same somewhat antagonistic path as the Freedom From Religion Foundation, among other “freethinking” groups.

Recently, Torpy also came out in support of the installment of atheist military chaplains, an interesting proposal considering the notion that it would require non-believers to register as a faith group of sorts.

The latest drama surrounding the Christian symbol unfolded when, on Veterans Day, Marines erected a 13-foot cross to commemorate the lives of their comrades who perished in Iraq. Staff Sgt. Justin Rettenberger, one of the four individuals who is responsible for erecting the cross, explains that the memorial was done to honor Maj. Douglas Zembiec, Maj. Ray Mendoza, Lance Cpl. Aaron Austin and Lance Cpl. Robert Zurheide.

The L.A. Times documented the cross’ placement at the military base:

“We wanted them all to know that they’ll always be in our hearts, that they’ll never be forgotten,” Rettenberger told the Los Angeles Times.

But Torpy, though he understands the urge to remember the lost, says that, because of its placement on federal lands, the cross simply isn’t appropriate. While he claims he typically doesn’t get involved in issues like this, some of his atheist members who serve at Pendleton have asked him to intervene.

“In a lot of ways this is commendable – they’re honoring friends who were probably Christian,” Torpy said. “I think the memorial is appropriate for the individuals who put it up and the friends they’re honoring, but you just can’t walk onto federal land and do it.”

While he says he doesn’t want to be the bad guy, he says that he shouldn’t be the only one standing up in opposition to the cross. It “privileges one religion over another,” he says, going on to claim that ”[Camp Pendleton} should have known better."
Atheists Demand Camp Pendleton Cross Be Removed From Federal Land

In this Nov. 10, 2011 photo, from left to right, Scott Radetski, Karen Mendoza, Jon Gross and Shannon Book carry a 13-foot cross to the top of a mountain at Camp Pendleton to recognize those Marines who have fallen or been wounded in combat. (AP Photo/Los Angeles Times, Rick Loomis)

The L.A. Times has an excellent slideshow that documents the cross’ story.

Pendleton released a statement saying that the four Marines who put the cross up were not acting in “any official position or capacity” and that the Department of Defense and the U.S. Marine Corps were not endorsing the cross. Torpy, though, says that the religious symbol should have been prevented from being placed on federal land.

According to FOX News, there’s been some strong reaction to atheists demands that the cross be removed. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council and a former marine, is frustrated over what he sees as “radical” attacks on the military.

“It’s really outrageous and it shows the hostile environment that’s been created by this (Obama) administration towards religious freedom,” he says. “At some point, we have to say, enough is enough.”

Currently, officials are reviewing the situation to determine the appropriateness of the cross’ placement on federal lands.
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GG

Nuke them from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

If you wan't to constantly play the martyr victim card, at least get the name of your oppressors right once in a while, otherwise we won't know whom to burn at the stake for heresy... Its "atheist" not "athiest".

See, I havent even contributed to a Religion thread for ages, but this is just an attempt at name calling so Ill have to post at least once.

From theblaze.com as well by the way.. with its own "faith" department, good source.

Why do you have to harp on about it so much? Why do you care if Atheism is or is not classified as a Religion?

Do you think that proving that every human in the world has a Religion (they don't) somehow makes your young earth, wacky as feth, not shared by the overwhelming majority of the Christian world belief more sensible?

Even if it was (It isn't) your beliefs are still wrong, wrong in the eyes of the law (lose every court case) wrong in the eyes of the Scientific majority, and most importantly, wrong numerically (most Christians don't agree with you) and wrong with good old fashioned common bloody sense.

Atheism could be a Religion, but your still wrong. And the vast majority of the Western world (America included) is laughing. The jokes not on the militant atheists, its on you and your coconut dinosaur chums.

Obviously that one atheist speaks for us all.
I remember the election. It was a toss-up between him and Kim Jong Il.

Just wanted to add, not all Christians are fruit cakes that believe Jesus walked with raptors and the Earth is little more then 10k years old. I believe in a higher power, with out a doubt. I also know, that its impossible for the Earth to be as young as the fruity ones think it is.

Atheist Chaplains? Huh?To reaffirm their godlessness when they need it most? Okay.

I seriously doubt the Marines are insulted by it, and it's not exactly "public property", so I don't see why they feel the need to nit-pick at something as simple as a memorial.

KingCracker wrote:Just wanted to add, not all Christians are fruit cakes that believe Jesus walked with raptors and the Earth is little more then 10k years old. I believe in a higher power, with out a doubt. I also know, that its impossible for the Earth to be as young as the fruity ones think it is.

Hmmm...so it's ok to call a group of Christians that believe in young earth a pejorative insult like "fruitcakes"? on dakka?

By the way what does young earthers have to do with the article? I would posit..absolutely nothing.

GG

i like how the lead guy for the protest is pretty much saying

"i usually dont do crazy stuff like this but the others guys do so.."

and really...protesting religious symbolism in the MILITARY of all places?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_United_States_military

PhantomViper wrote:If you wan't to constantly play the martyr victim card, at least get the name of your oppressors right once in a while, otherwise we won't know whom to burn at the stake for heresy... Its "atheist" not "athiest".

Not playing the martyr,,,just pointing out hypocrisy.

GG

generalgrog wrote:Still believe atheists aren't religious? This same group want's atheist chaplains.(which is fine with me...just quit pretending you aren't a religion)


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/atheists-demand-marines-remove-cross-intended-to-commemorate-the-lives-of-fallen-u-s-soldiers/


GG

Its still not a religion, but you still have yet to say why you are so eager to proclaim it one.

Is it because you know your religion is horribly wrong, so you want atheism to be a religion so you can convert?

generalgrog wrote:Hmmm...so it's ok to call a group of Christians that believe in young earth a pejorative insult like "fruitcakes"? on dakka?

It's a bit like calling people who lie liars.

Manchu wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Hmmm...so it's ok to call a group of Christians that believe in young earth a pejorative insult like "fruitcakes"? on dakka?

It's a bit like calling people who lie liars.

This is exactly the kind of thing that is wrong. You classified a whole group of people that may or may not be wrong.... liars. This would include me. If that isn't a violation of dakka rule #1 I don't know what is.

GG

generalgrog wrote:

Manchu wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Hmmm...so it's ok to call a group of Christians that believe in young earth a pejorative insult like "fruitcakes"? on dakka?

It's a bit like calling people who lie liars.

This is exactly the kind of thing that is wrong. You classified a whole group of people that may or may not be wrong.... liars. This would include me. If that isn't a violation of dakka rule #1 I don't know what is.

GG

Its the same rule you violate every time you utter your lies saying atheism is a religion.

Young Earthers are wrong. Also, I did not say they were liars. I said people who tell lies are liars.

generalgrog wrote:

Manchu wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Hmmm...so it's ok to call a group of Christians that believe in young earth a pejorative insult like "fruitcakes"? on dakka?

It's a bit like calling people who lie liars.

This is exactly the kind of thing that is wrong. You classified a whole group of people that may or may not be wrong.... liars. This would include me. If that isn't a violation of dakka rule #1 I don't know what is.

GG

If I said that the capital of France was Rome, its wrong. It's not "may or may not be wrong" its as wrong as anything else we know to be wrong for a fact.

Its about as wrong as young earthers are. In fact, its probably far more right, at least Rome is pretty close to France, the actual age of the earth is over 4 billion, I think the margin of error is far less trivial!

generalgrog wrote:

Manchu wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Hmmm...so it's ok to call a group of Christians that believe in young earth a pejorative insult like "fruitcakes"? on dakka?

It's a bit like calling people who lie liars.

This is exactly the kind of thing that is wrong. You classified a whole group of people that may or may not be wrong.... liars. This would include me. If that isn't a violation of dakka rule #1 I don't know what is.

GG

Feel free to post some Young Earth evidence.

Manchu wrote:Young Earthers are wrong. Also, I did not say they were liars. I said people who tell lies are liars.

Manchu you compared calling young earthers fruitcakes, to calling people who lie liars..so you essentially said this...because young earthers are liars we can call them fruitcakes on dakka.

GG

People on Dakka agree with a relegious group that believes that the world isn't nearly as old as its been scientifically proven to be? ....This thread confuses me.

generalgrog wrote:

Manchu wrote:Young Earthers are wrong. Also, I did not say they were liars. I said people who tell lies are liars.

Manchu you compared calling young earthers fruitcakes, to calling people who lie liars..so you essentially said this...because young earthers are liars we can call them fruitcakes on dakka.

GG

Just lock the thread Manchu, it is clearly a troll thread, the premise is simply to wind agnostic/atheist people up, and now he is playing the victim.

I say in good old fashioned dakka tradition, you blame the victim, and lock the thread.

Wyrmalla wrote:People on Dakka agree with a relegious group that believes that the world isn't nearly as old as its been scientifically proven to be? ....This thread confuses me.

It confuses me as well...since the thread isn't even about young earth creationism and people are allowed to come into this thread take it off topic and violate the first 2 rules of DAKKA DAKKA.

GG

GG

you posted this thread with a certain agenda in mind...what are you trying to achieve?

to say that atheists are hypocrites?

okay... doesnt that violate the rules as well?

generalgrog wrote:Manchu you compared calling young earthers fruitcakes, to calling people who lie liars..so you essentially said this...because young earthers are liars we can call them fruitcakes on dakka.

No no -- people who believe wacky counter-reality theories about the age of the Earth are fruitcakes.

Bakerofish wrote:GG

you posted this thread with a certain agenda in mind...what are you trying to achieve?

to say that atheists are hypocrites?

okay... doesnt that violate the rules as well?

My agenda was to talk about why certain atheists are threatened by a memorial to fallen soldiers. This reminds me of westboro baptist. Just because it was a cross they erected. I wouldn't care if they erected a shrine to budda, or a shirne to logic..the point is......... so what.

GG

The source article seems unfairly biased towards athiests I'd note. I know nothing of the website that its taken from, but the language it uses really does nothing to aid it in making its point. I mean I have nothing against a bunch of guys raising a memorial, despite not believing in a god, but the way the article's put across its point hints that the writer was a little close minded. Admitedly this is how a lot of mainstream reporters chose to convye their points, but its a tad unpalitable for someone used to papers that take a stance that's a semblance to neutrality. =/

The world's full of people with extreme views. Normal peopel don't tend to make so much of a ruckuss, thus why you don't see headlines like "athiests and christians decide to set acide their differences and get along" every other day. =P

Manchu wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Manchu you compared calling young earthers fruitcakes, to calling people who lie liars..so you essentially said this...because young earthers are liars we can call them fruitcakes on dakka.

No no -- people who believe wacky counter-reality theories about the age of the Earth are fruitcakes.

Exactly so a mod can call people fruitcakes. Wow how DAKKA has fallen.

SO now that a mod can make insulting comments does that mean that I now can insult your Catholic religious beliefs that I find wacky?

Can I call belief in transubstantiation a fruitcake belief? I mean if mods can insult why not the rest of us?

GG

There is a good faith argument that the government building memorials in the shape of the Christian cross is a violation of the Establishment Clause. I can't believe that this was not apparent to you, generalgrog.

generalgrog wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:GG

you posted this thread with a certain agenda in mind...what are you trying to achieve?

to say that atheists are hypocrites?

okay... doesnt that violate the rules as well?

My agenda was to talk about why certain atheists are threatened by a memorial to fallen soldiers. This reminds me of westboro baptist. Just because it was a cross they erected. I wouldn't care if they erected a shrine to budda, or a shirne to logic..the point is......... so what.

GG

The point is it violates the separation of church and state. The military accepts all people from all religions, and will even take people who are not US citizens. so advertising just one religion is not being inclusive of all the others. Its the same reason you can't put up your religions displays on public property.

generalgrog wrote:

Manchu wrote:

generalgrog wrote:Manchu you compared calling young earthers fruitcakes, to calling people who lie liars..so you essentially said this...because young earthers are liars we can call them fruitcakes on dakka.

No no -- people who believe wacky counter-reality theories about the age of the Earth are fruitcakes.

Exactly so a mod can call people fruitcakes. Wow how DAKKA has fallen.

SO now that a mod can make insulting comments does that mean that I now can insult your Catholic religious beliefs that I find wacky?

Can I call belief in transubstantiation a fruitcake belief? I mean if mods can insult why not the rest of us?

GG

you just did. you just called atheists hypocrites

=/ I guess its permitedable for people to casually putdown outmoted belief systems. The Roman empire really did have a ridiculous agricultural system....

^^