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Odd situation:

Hive Guard shoots a Basalisk touching cover.

The Basalisk is 100% blocked TLOS due to a parking lot.

The Basalisk is 33% blocked TLOS due to cover it is touching.

The Basalisk has a Camo Cloak.

What cover does he get?

I would say a 3+ cover save. Since it is both in cover and touching cover it would get a cover save, and due to the camo netting this would improve it's save.

Unfortunately you can't claim cover from the intervening models, only from area terrain. Since vehicles must be obscurred and in terrain to be able to claim cover, technically you would not get a cover save. HIWPI however, is terrain cover save +1 for camo cloaks.

I would say no save.
Vehicles don't gain cover from area terrian. It needs to be 50% obscured by terrian/intervening models.

As far as I know the Hive guard doesn't use LOS, so a vehicle can't get a cover save (wargear aside).

The vehicle is 50% obscured, it just happens to be partially obscured by terrain (and it is touching terrain which is a requirement to take a cover save against Hive Guard) and the rest by other vehicles.

You will definitely get a 3+ for the Camo Cloak (I think that is +1 to cover right?) if you get a save at all.

The FAQ says..
"Can a unit take cover saves from any source other
than the terrain they are in, or touching, against
Wounds caused by an impaler cannon? (p47)
A: No."

Technically this is wounds, but I think it is safe to assume it applied to Glances/Pens as well. It also makes it a bit of a gray area.

I would be inclined to give the guard player the cover save since a portion of it is provided by the terrain that it is touching.

The parking lot provides no cover save as it is not terrain the basilisk is in or touching, thus is ignored.

The area terrain provides no cover as it is not obscurring the basilisk 50% or more.

If the area terrain obscurred the vehicle more than 50%, then it would gain a cover save and benefit from the camo net.

If the basilisk is *touching* other models, they ARE terrain - impassable terrain, as defined in the rulebook

Seems pretty simple to me. Vehicles never get a cover save by simply touching any terrain. So any argument that states that a vehicle gets a cover save by simply touching terrain is wrong. There are some people here who's arguments would give a Titan a cover save if one Grot was touching it and the Hive Guard had no LOS.


1) Vehicles only count as obscured if their hull is more than 50% blocked by LOS.
2) Hive Guard only count intervening terrain or models that a vehicle's hull is touching towards blocking LOS.
So...
3) Vehicles can only gain obscurity from a Hive Guard if more than 50% their hull is touching intervening LOS blocking terrain or models.

No, you wouldn't get a cover save.



And a follow up is, do cammo cloaks count as an alternate cover source?
I would say yes. You can get a 4+ save from the terrain AND a +1 modifier from the cloak. This results in a 3+ save. The FAQ clearly states that you can only get cover saves from the terrain you are in or touching and no other sources. Any modifiers, except ones that directly modify terrain, are other sources of cover and are voided out by the FAQ.

Kwosge wrote:
2) Hive Guard only count intervening terrain or models that a vehicle's hull is touching towards blocking LOS.

Whoa, where did this come from? The FAQ states "take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in..." The cover save IS coming from the terrain partially blocking LoS, it is just only a portion of it is coming from that. That is completely different from what you are stating...

What is the source of the cover save?
The Vehicle blocking LoS and the terrain blocking LoS.
I am 50% obscured, some of that comes from the terrain I am in.

My cover save comes from the terrain I am in (as well as some other factors). Feel free to dissect this argument

calypso2ts wrote: "take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in..."

Q: Can a unit take cover saves from any source other
than the terrain they are in, or touching, against
Wounds caused by an impaler cannon? (p47)
A: No.

Note the "or touching." As nos pointed out p 13 tells you that models (both enemy and friendly) count as impassible terrain. So if the basilisk is touching a model it is touching terrain and can get cover from the model shaped terrain.

(yes, a million edits. you type with an active 4 year old climbing on you and see how well you do!)

kmdl1066 wrote:(yes, a million edits. you type with an active 4 year old climbing on you and see how well you do!)

And this is why I keep the cats off my desk.

Wow this would mean smoke launchers don't work against hive guard. That sucks.

White Ninja wrote:Wow this would mean smoke launchers don't work against hive guard. That sucks.

They don't, and tryranids have a hard enough time in the current meta this is one of the few things in their favour.

Which is surprising, considering the Spore Cloud change.

calypso2ts wrote:

Kwosge wrote:
2) Hive Guard only count intervening terrain or models that a vehicle's hull is touching towards blocking LOS.

Whoa, where did this come from? The FAQ states "take cover saves from any source other than the terrain they are in..." The cover save IS coming from the terrain partially blocking LoS, it is just only a portion of it is coming from that. That is completely different from what you are stating...

What is the source of the cover save?
The Vehicle blocking LoS and the terrain blocking LoS.
I am 50% obscured, some of that comes from the terrain I am in.

My cover save comes from the terrain I am in (as well as some other factors). Feel free to dissect this argument

Nid dex pg47: "The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the Hive Guard."

Counting the vehicles as part of the cover blocking LOS to the target is a benefit. If the target is not touching them, they are ignored and you are only left with the terrain you are in or touching

Happyjew wrote:Which is surprising, considering the Spore Cloud change.

Spre Cloud.

Maelstrom808 wrote:
Nid dex pg47: "The target can only count the benefits of cover they are in or touching if it lies between them and the Hive Guard."

Counting the vehicles as part of the cover blocking LOS to the target is a benefit. If the target is not touching them, they are ignored and you are only left with the terrain you are in or touching

I always took the 'benefit' to be the save itself, but I see how you are reading this. Upon reflection I think you are correct, especially in the context of the Tyranid FAQ which makes very specific allowances for how cover may be taken.