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Hey guys not sure if there is a post like this already but i wanted some help defeating my friends BA list. It has caused me a lot of problems and i have lost every annihilation game ive played against him. He usually plays this 1500 point list against my Mechanised Imperial Fists Army. NB: this is to the best of my knowledge so apologies if its not 100% accurate.

HQ:
Mephiston

Troops:
4 Man Death Company Squad + Lemartes

1 Death Company Dreadnought

Fast Attack:
Storm Raven with T/L Multi Melta, Assault Cannon and 4x Bloodstrike Missiles

Storm Raven with T/L Lascannon, Cyclone Missile Launcher, and 4x Bloodstrike Missiles.

Heavy Support:
Furioso Librarian with Forceweapon and CC weapon mounted in Drop Pod.

Furioso Dreanought with Melta and Heavy flamer.

Game Overview

Basically turn 1 consists of him going flat out across the table to gain his cover save, and with the mechanised list that i usually run, he drops his librarian Furioso in so that he can bloodlance my tanks. After that mephiston, 3 dreads, and a death company are in close combat by turn 2 and its pretty much game over from there. The last list i used i went heavy lascannons in order to try to take down his stormravens asap. But it never seems to work consistantly.

Any advice that you guys could offer would be EXTREMELY well recieved.

He hasn't got a single scoring unit in that army.

And if he deploys it all in his Storm Ravens, that's only two units on the board during his first turn.

What's the army list you typically run?

Also, friendly correction. The Dreadnoughts are elite choices, and the Stormravens are heavy support.

He runs his list simply as a means of "tabling" me. Its his only goal, and as i said, i have yet to beat it in annihilation. He never really cares about objectives. As such i usually run with a couple of rhino's/Razorbacks as a means of taking and holding objectives , if we play an objective based game ( i win most of those).

The last Mechanised list i ran was as follows:

HQ:
Lysander

Librarian with quickening (chance to instant death Meph and nul his Psychic stuff was my plan) and Curse of the Machine Spirit.

Troops:
5 man Tactical Squad with Meltabombs mounted in a Razorback with TL Las.
5 man Tactical Squad with Meltabombs mounted in a Razorback with TL Las.

Elites:
5 man Close Combat Terminator Squad (2 TH and 3 LC's)

Dreadnought with TL Las and CC weapon with built in SB.

Heavy Support:
Land Raider with 2x TL Las and TL Heavy Bolter

Predator with TL Las and Las Sponsons

Predator with Autocannon and HB sponsons.

As i previously mentioned. I went Heavy Lascannons so that i could hit those StormRavens hard and then in later game turns hit Meph.

Drop-pod sternguard with combi-meltas. Will instantly kill whatever is nearby, MEQ or armour.
Also depending on what is available to use/proxy, he only has two melta guns in his entire army so consider a couple of LRs with TH/SS termies inside (Lysander makes these twin-linked, right?).
He's very good at taking out light armour, so go heavy or troop - either of those will cause him problems. I'd say a 10-man tactical with meltagun and Missile Launcher was more worthwhile than one of those preds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also by my calculations your opponent is a bit over...can you double check this?

I had given thought to a sternguard team, and i was thinking i might drop the Autocannon pred. however , mephiston would make sure work of them if given the oppertunity to charge. I may try the 2 LR and 2 teams of Termi's before that though. It has been something ive been meaning to try.

Would you consider the Heavy Lascannon setup a viable option? Or is it costing me more points than i really need to spend?

Too be honest mephiston will kill pretty much every thing in your list if he charges.

Missile launchers are cheaper than lascannons, and should do the job of taking out the stormravens rather nicely.

I second the 5 sternguard with combi-meltas, except that I'd probably mech them up and run a complete mech list.

Try this list on for size:

HQ:
Lysander
(200 points)

Elite:
4x Sternguard Veterans (4x Combi-meltas)
- Sternguard Sergeant (Combi-melta)
- Razorback (Lascannon/TL Plasmagun)
(230 points)

Troops:
9x Tactical Marines (Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon)
- Tactical Sergeant (BP/PFist, Meltabombs)
- Razorback (Lascannon/TL Plasmagun)
(280 points)

9x Tactical Marines (Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon)
- Tactical Sergeant (BP/PFist, Meltabombs)
- Razorback (Lascannon/TL Plasmagun)
(280 points)

Heavy Support:
4x Devastator Marines (3x Missile Launcher, 1x Lascannon)
- Devastator Sergeant (Signum, Combi-melta)
- Razorback (TL Lascannon)
(255 points)

4x Devastator Marines (3x Missile Launcher, 1x Lascannon)
- Devastator Sergeant (Signum, Combi-melta)
- Razorback (TL Lascannon)
(255 points)

Totals: 1500/1500 points, 13.3% HQ, 15.3% Elites, 37.3% Troops, 34% Heavy, 41 Models, 11 Kill Points

This list has:
7 combi-meltas,
6 missile launchers,
5 lascannons,
3 TL plasmaguns,
3 meltabombs,
2 meltaguns,
2 multi-meltas,
2 TL lascannons
2 PFists,
1 (S10!) THammer

Use the signums in the dev squads on the lascannons for each turn of fire so they get the BS 5. Combi-meltas are there in case he decides to go after your dev squads with one of his dreadnoughts.

Try to get to go first, so that you'll have your entire turn to shoot at his Stormravens (assuming you can see them - smart deployment and terrain placement will help with that), which should prevent his 4+ flat out cover save on them. Once you've wrecked those, his list gets quite a bit easier to destroy - especially with all the anti-vehicle you've got in this list along with just about all of it denying armor/FNP saves.

If you find the devs aren't performing for you, you can swap them out for assault termies:

5x Assault Terminators (5x THammer/Storm Shield)
- Assault Terminator Sergeant (THammer/Storm Shield)
- Land Raider "Godhammer" (TL Heavy Bolter, 2x TL Lascannon, Multimelta)
(500 points)

That would leave you with 1490/1500 points, by my reckoning, so you could play around some with wargear.

Hope this helps, Blood Angels are a tough army to beat.

That's great! Thank you. They are a tough nut to crack but as you've already said, once those stormravens are toast his army becomes much easier.

Well, the only problem you run into with that list, is that you have nowhere to put Lysander unless you run your sternguard on foot or you want to put him with the devastators, (which really wastes literally all of his abilities.)

Here's an alternative that denies all kinds of FNP and dual purposes as anti-infantry, anti-MEQ, anti-tank that's still Fists fluffy.

Lysander

Assault terminators x5 5x TH/SS, LRC w/ multi-melta

Tactical Squad x9 meltagun, missile launcher.
Sergeant w/ melta bombs
Las/plas razorback (combat squad this unit.)

Tactical Squad x9 meltagun, missile launcher.
Sergeant w/ melta bombs
Las/plas razorback (combat squad this unit.)

Vindicator
Vindicator
Vindicator

Actually that might be 15 points over. You can always drop the meltabombs and take flamers instead of melta, if you want.

I would love a fists army with 3 vindicators it would feel SO right. However, in turn one, if his SR's manage to turbo boost across the board unscathed then his entire army will be within about 12" of the vindicators and then im at risk of hitting my own guys for the next 3-4 turns. I think i prefer the idea of taking some devastators with a razorback. However, i would take lysander with 5 TH/SS termie's as in this game the 3+ invulnerable save is SO important, or atleast thtas what ive seen in my last couple of games.

Thank you guys, youve all given me alot to think about. I hope to start re-writing some lists with your suggestions this afternoon.

Stormravens can only move 24" flat out. Deploy your forces with that in mind.

yea but then 12" after that, then deploy troops 2" from the base, then assault 6". Pretty much means mephiston is in CC with whatever he likes by turn 2.

I took one look at his list and noticed it was illegal: Lemartes does not count towards the model requirements to have a DC Dread in his army.

There are a lot of lists floating around with 4x DC marines and a DC dread - it's either legal, or there are a lot of people perpetuating illegal lists.

I don't own a BA codex but afaik lemartes is a death company upgrade and not an IC. Therefore he still counts as a Contributing DC member. However, I did also say that the list was to the best of my knowledge and not definitive.

Well following RAW, Lemartes isn't a "Death Company" model. Only models labelled as "Death Company" can be used to take the Dread, and Lemartes is..."Lemartes. Even if he is part of the unit he doesn't count towards the number of "Death Company" models in the army.

I do not think Lemartes counts towards the DC model count. The codex states that the "Death Company can include Lemartes." He's a unique character, not an upgrade. You can have a max of 30 DC units + Lemartes.

thank you for the clarification. He must not have fielded him in this latest list. My mistake.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'd like to hear some advice on a Librarian in the list. I used one in the past and i did manage to get a couple of Psychic Hood rolls in to slow down Mephiston. Is it worth it? Should i take Terminator Armour? If i chose to roll out 2 Terminator Squads, should i roll a Librarian out with one of them, and Lysander with another?

I would think it would be worthwhile if you are inclined to go the elite-heavy route.

But personally, as a BA player, I'd be more worried about a troop-heavy list like Chesh put out. If you deployed in a nice little box, it would be tough to crack. You know he's coming straight at you, use it to your advantage.

Agreed after review chesh's list looks pretty sound and I think it will fair very well. Thanks again!