Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

alright, I want to know what I can do against certain squads and things that are rampant around my GW. here is my "knight hunters" aquad, my own personal deathstar:

Cato, librarian with nullzone and force dome, x8 sternguard with x7 combi-plasmas, x1 plasma rifle, rhino.

The idea is for my libarian to use nullzone to help open up their defenses a little, hopefully enough to pour 17 plasma shots down their throats. they hangout in a rhino under forcedome until they reach their targets so they can shoot to full effect.

alright, so thats my squad so far. I dont have enough money to pay for a terminator squad and then a land raider, and even if I did I just think it's a prick move to field it in a friendly game. with that being said, I may plan on getting some, but Idk if i really want vulkan yet.

here are some death star examples in my GW that I remember:

thunderwolf calvary with x3 stormshield

x5 TH/SS terminators w/ vulkan in a land raider redeemer/x5 TH/SS terminators w/ lysander in a landraider

Dante and friends (the guard)

Eldrud (eldrad, however you spell it) and x5 howling banshees and a wraithlord

Avatar of kaine and wraithlord (guard? idk)

Large squad of paladins with dragio, librarian, apothecary.

Thousand suns


Any help besides the usual get vulkan, go blood angles, or buy a landraider and a TH terminator squad? thanks please, im tierd of getting stomped

Thousand Sons is a deathstar? Well, they're pretty tough to beat with that 4+ and AP3 Bolter, but they're still just Space Marines beyond that. Shoot em enough and they'll start to die. There is no great strategy against them as they have no real weakness beyond their high cost. Outnumber em, and you'll beat em.

As for TWC, that's a tough fight for anyone/thing. CC Dread causes ID so you might try that. Ironically, Thousand Sons work well against them. Demolisher's can ID em too.

As for that other stuff, I'm not really sure.

Your "Deathstar" seems good for shooting, but it's only going to get 1 round in before combat, and then it's going to die if it didn't crush the other Deathstar. Null Zone will help with this a lot, but it still may not be enough against most 'stars.

Tiger9gamer wrote:alright, I want to know what I can do against certain squads and things that are rampant around my GW. here is my "knight hunters" aquad, my own personal deathstar:

Cato, librarian with nullzone and force dome, x8 sternguard with x7 combi-plasmas, x1 plasma rifle, rhino.

The idea is for my libarian to use nullzone to help open up their defenses a little, hopefully enough to pour 17 plasma shots down their throats. they hangout in a rhino under forcedome until they reach their targets so they can shoot to full effect.

alright, so thats my squad so far. I dont have enough money to pay for a terminator squad and then a land raider, and even if I did I just think it's a prick move to field it in a friendly game. with that being said, I may plan on getting some, but Idk if i really want vulkan yet.

here are some death star examples in my GW that I remember:

thunderwolf calvary with x3 stormshield

x5 TH/SS terminators w/ vulkan in a land raider redeemer/x5 TH/SS terminators w/ lysander in a landraider

Dante and friends (the guard)

Eldrud (eldrad, however you spell it) and x5 howling banshees and a wraithlord

Avatar of kaine and wraithlord (guard? idk)

Large squad of paladins with dragio, librarian, apothecary.

Thousand suns


Any help besides the usual get vulkan, go blood angles, or buy a landraider and a TH terminator squad? thanks please, im tierd of getting stomped

I wouldn't take the plasma personally, I would go with combi-meltas instead, it's safer to use for one thing, you really don't want your plasma to blow up on you, plus melta is going to be 5 points cheaper on the normal guns, the combi will still run you 5 points each, and that additional strength(8 instead of 7) will start kicking in instant death on those T4 marine bodies.

Can you explain the Eldrad, howling banshees and wraithlord a little more? I've never heard of them referred to as a death star all in one group. Howling banshees are horribly fragile, T3 and a +4 armor, they get shot to death pathecially easy, they all have power weapons yes but they are only STR 3 they'll need +5 to even make a wound on your T4, the exarch(if your opponent is even taking one, your sentence just says banshees, the exarch is like a squad leader or sgt) can take a executioner which is S5 but she won't be able to killed everything by herself, and more than likely your squad would wipe this tiny cc unit out.

The Wraithlord is a scary T8 but it only has a +3 armor with no invuln, plasma and melta will take care of this easily, if you get into close combat with the wraithlord cato's coup de grace is going to be your only hope because it will kick your squad's butt...slowly.....it only has two attacks, a +5 invuln wont save everyone but it will help.

Eldrad has a nasty cc weapon that auto wounds on a +2 with no armor saves but he has very few attacks. his main strength is being a buffer for other units in the army rather than a fighter in the front line though. He's T4 which is rare for a eldar unit but melta would be able to ID his wounds should he fail his invuln save.

I know I recommend taking melta weapon but in the avatar's case your going to want to take plasma weapons, he is immune to all melta and flamer weaponry. Shooting him is always better than getting into assault with him.

Wraithguard will fold a bit easier than the wraithlord will, since they are only T6, the only thing you need to watch out for is their gun, you either need to be in CC with them or you need to be outside of their 12-18" range(I'm including movement in here) they are usually stupid hard to kill in CC because your only STR4 to their T6 but they aren't made for CC, they are STR 5 but you have the same armor save and they don't have access to power weaponry like marines do. So with the wraith guard, shooting them with melta and then assaulting them is very gratifying.

Paladins will fold over to melta weapons, AP1 pierces their terminator armor and kicks in ID with STR 8, which also means no FNP, theiir force stave does nothing since its a shooting attack their +5 invuln wont save them forever.

Stormshields on the other units... well your nullzone will help immensely with that, otherwise you just have to hope your opponent fails their invuln save. Don't know anything about Dante

Thousand sons again you will need to shoot and close into CC with immediately, their bolters will eat your squad for breakfest with its AP3, the librarian will help with forcedome but you do not want to be trying to close the distance will getting shot at by them.

I would recommend taking a lightning claw on the sgt though, because

A. shooting alone may not break the back of the death star
B cato will not be enough in CC since the majority of your squad is just going to be hitting at regular S4, you will need the lightning claw for its wound re-rolls and armor piercing.

hope that helps

Dervos wrote:
I wouldn't take the plasma personally, I would go with combi-meltas instead, it's safer to use for one thing, you really don't want your plasma to blow up on you, plus melta is going to be 5 points cheaper on the normal guns, the combi will still run you 5 points each, and that additional strength(8 instead of 7) will start kicking in instant death on those T4 marine bodies.

Can you explain the Eldrad, howling banshees and wraithlord a little more? I've never heard of them referred to as a death star all in one group. Howling banshees are horribly fragile, T3 and a +4 armor, they get shot to death pathecially easy, they all have power weapons yes but they are only STR 3 they'll need +5 to even make a wound on your T4, the exarch(if your opponent is even taking one, your sentence just says banshees, the exarch is like a squad leader or sgt) can take a executioner which is S5 but she won't be able to killed everything by herself, and more than likely your squad would wipe this tiny cc unit out.

The Wraithlord is a scary T8 but it only has a +3 armor with no invuln, plasma and melta will take care of this easily, if you get into close combat with the wraithlord cato's coup de grace is going to be your only hope because it will kick your squad's butt, a +5 invuln wont save everyone.

Eldrad has a nasty cc weapon that auto wounds on a +2 with no armor saves but he has very few attacks. his main strength is being a buffer for other units in the army rather than a fighter in the front line though. He's T4 which is rare for a eldar unit but melta would be able to ID his wounds should he fail his invuln save.

I know I recommend taking melta weapon but in the avatar's case your going to want to take plasma weapons, he is immune to all melta and flamer weaponry. Shooting him is always better than getting into assault with him.

Wraithguard will fold a bit easier than the wraithlord will, since they are only T6, the only thing you need to watch out for is their gun, you either need to be in CC with them or you need to be outside of their 12-18" range(I'm including movement in here) they are usually stupid hard to kill in CC because your only STR4 to their T6 but they aren't made for CC, they are STR 5 but you have the same armor save and they don't have access to power weaponry like marines do. So with the wraith guard, shooting them with melta and then assaulting them is very gratifying.

Paladins will fold over to melta weapons, AP1 pierces their terminator armor and kicks in ID with STR 8, which also means no FNP, theiir force stave does nothing since its a shooting attack their +5 invuln wont save them forever.

Stormshields on the other units... well your nullzone will help immensely with that, otherwise you just have to hope your opponent fails their invuln save. Don't know anything about Dante

Thousand sons again you will need to shoot and close into CC with immediately, their bolters will eat your squad for breakfest with its AP3, the librarian will help with forcedome but you do not want to be trying to close the distance will getting shot at by them.

I would recommend taking a lightning claw on the sgt though, because

A. shooting alone may not break the back of the death star
B cato will not be enough in CC since the majority of your squad is just going to be hitting at regular S4, you will need the lightning claw for its wound re-rolls and armor piercing.

hope that helps

It does help, thanks ^^ I took the plasma guns because I can blanket a squad with ap2 guns that rapid fire (i have terrible rolls) and I have read that there is only a slight chance of it wounding your models and you stillget a save.

And the eldar banshees was more bad planning on my part along with dumb luck at failing their banshee masks.

and I was hoping for a force weapon and cato would be enough. I kinda like to keep things at an even 1000 or so to keep it from sounding like a random number. is plasma still a good idea?

Tiger9gamer wrote:

It does help, thanks ^^ I took the plasma guns because I can blanket a squad with ap2 guns that rapid fire (i have terrible rolls) and I have read that there is only a slight chance of it wounding your models and you still get a save.

And the eldar banshees was more bad planning on my part along with dumb luck at failing their banshee masks.

and I was hoping for a force weapon and cato would be enough. I kinda like to keep things at an even 1000 or so to keep it from sounding like a random number. is plasma still a good idea?

Glad it helped , the risk with plasma weapon is small but it's just my personal preference not to take them.

2 shots at 12" is helpful, but the biggest reason I was advocating the melta guns because it's STR 8 which means it'll be instant death again all of those T4 marines, plasma will ignore FNP because its AP 2 but ID will take out the multi wound paladins and other multi wound units easier than plasma.

Then again plasma is STR 7 so your still wounding on a 2 up against a T4, and against storm shields you would probably be much better off with the extra shot from the rapid fire plasma than one shot from a melta gun.

Plus with plasma you won't have to worry about the avatar being immune to it.

Both plasma and melta are good choices, just go with which ever you feel more comfortable with, they will both be immensely serviceable against these death stars(except of course the avatar when using melta )

Edit: ah I forgot the librarian had a force weapon, against Eldar be wary since they might have a farseer with runes of warding which will force you to do a 3d6 pysker test with perils over a total of 12 =/ I'm not familiar with the other armies physic defenses but I think GK and BA had some kind of defense for physic powers.

The librarian won't be able to kill the wraithlord though because he's only STR 4, you would have to take Might of the ancients to have a chance to wound the wraithlord and even you have to roll a +6 to get a wound. which means dropping nullzone or forcedome.

Edit: guh another edit....

One more thing you mentioned a squad of terminators with a land raider, plasma won't do anything to a land raider, but you'll probably be too busy trying to deal with the terminators and HQ unit than to be able to worry about the land raider, I hope there might be another unit that is capable of taking on the land raider in your army. That's a nasty unit to take in a 1k game

5 SG with combi-melta in a drop pod, maybe lead by lysander

apple1988218 wrote:Libby + shrouding (for 2+ cover)
Hereticus Inquisitor + Psyoculum ( for BS10)
3 plasma cannon servitor
9 jakaero weapon smith
Techmarine + convers bemer (for 3+ cover)

can kill any GK death star XD

T_T but this is normal space marines......

Dervos wrote:

apple1988218 wrote:Libby + shrouding (for 2+ cover)
Hereticus Inquisitor + Psyoculum ( for BS10)
3 plasma cannon servitor
9 jakaero weapon smith
Techmarine + convers bemer (for 3+ cover)

can kill any GK death star XD

T_T but this is normal space marines......

Dervos wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:

It does help, thanks ^^ I took the plasma guns because I can blanket a squad with ap2 guns that rapid fire (i have terrible rolls) and I have read that there is only a slight chance of it wounding your models and you still get a save.

And the eldar banshees was more bad planning on my part along with dumb luck at failing their banshee masks.

and I was hoping for a force weapon and cato would be enough. I kinda like to keep things at an even 1000 or so to keep it from sounding like a random number. is plasma still a good idea?

Glad it helped , the risk with plasma weapon is small but it's just my personal preference not to take them.

2 shots at 12" is helpful, but the biggest reason I was advocating the melta guns because it's STR 8 which means it'll be instant death again all of those T4 marines, plasma will ignore FNP because its AP 2 but ID will take out the multi wound paladins and other multi wound units easier than plasma.

Then again plasma is STR 7 so your still wounding on a 2 up against a T4, and against storm shields you would probably be much better off with the extra shot from the rapid fire plasma than one shot from a melta gun.

Plus with plasma you won't have to worry about the avatar being immune to it.

Both plasma and melta are good choices, just go with which ever you feel more comfortable with, they will both be immensely serviceable against these death stars(except of course the avatar when using melta )

Edit: ah I forgot the librarian had a force weapon, against Eldar be wary since they might have a farseer with runes of warding which will force you to do a 3d6 pysker test with perils over a total of 12 =/ I'm not familiar with the other armies physic defenses but I think GK and BA had some kind of defense for physic powers.

The librarian won't be able to kill the wraithlord though because he's only STR 4, you would have to take Might of the ancients to have a chance to wound the wraithlord and even you have to roll a +6 to get a wound. which means dropping nullzone or forcedome.

Edit: guh another edit....

One more thing you mentioned a squad of terminators with a land raider, plasma won't do anything to a land raider, but you'll probably be too busy trying to deal with the terminators and HQ unit than to be able to worry about the land raider, I hope there might be another unit that is capable of taking on the land raider in your army. That's a nasty unit to take in a 1k game

I used cato 's special rule to give a lascannon/melta squad tankhunter it also dissects AV10-11 (if it hits) and I am taking an attack bike for suicide charge tactics against it.

Dervos wrote:

apple1988218 wrote:Libby + shrouding (for 2+ cover)
Hereticus Inquisitor + Psyoculum ( for BS10)
3 plasma cannon servitor
9 jakaero weapon smith
Techmarine + convers bemer (for 3+ cover)

can kill any GK death star XD

T_T but this is normal space marines......

What he said x-x vanilla marines advice? and dude, I also asked for people to not put "go grey knights, go blood angels" things, I kinda created this thread for vanilla marines against the universe.

Tiger9gamer wrote:

Dervos wrote:

apple1988218 wrote:Libby + shrouding (for 2+ cover)
Hereticus Inquisitor + Psyoculum ( for BS10)
3 plasma cannon servitor
9 jakaero weapon smith
Techmarine + convers bemer (for 3+ cover)

can kill any GK death star XD

T_T but this is normal space marines......

Dervos wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:

It does help, thanks ^^ I took the plasma guns because I can blanket a squad with ap2 guns that rapid fire (i have terrible rolls) and I have read that there is only a slight chance of it wounding your models and you still get a save.

And the eldar banshees was more bad planning on my part along with dumb luck at failing their banshee masks.

and I was hoping for a force weapon and cato would be enough. I kinda like to keep things at an even 1000 or so to keep it from sounding like a random number. is plasma still a good idea?

Glad it helped , the risk with plasma weapon is small but it's just my personal preference not to take them.

2 shots at 12" is helpful, but the biggest reason I was advocating the melta guns because it's STR 8 which means it'll be instant death again all of those T4 marines, plasma will ignore FNP because its AP 2 but ID will take out the multi wound paladins and other multi wound units easier than plasma.

Then again plasma is STR 7 so your still wounding on a 2 up against a T4, and against storm shields you would probably be much better off with the extra shot from the rapid fire plasma than one shot from a melta gun.

Plus with plasma you won't have to worry about the avatar being immune to it.

Both plasma and melta are good choices, just go with which ever you feel more comfortable with, they will both be immensely serviceable against these death stars(except of course the avatar when using melta )

Edit: ah I forgot the librarian had a force weapon, against Eldar be wary since they might have a farseer with runes of warding which will force you to do a 3d6 pysker test with perils over a total of 12 =/ I'm not familiar with the other armies physic defenses but I think GK and BA had some kind of defense for physic powers.

The librarian won't be able to kill the wraithlord though because he's only STR 4, you would have to take Might of the ancients to have a chance to wound the wraithlord and even you have to roll a +6 to get a wound. which means dropping nullzone or forcedome.

Edit: guh another edit....

One more thing you mentioned a squad of terminators with a land raider, plasma won't do anything to a land raider, but you'll probably be too busy trying to deal with the terminators and HQ unit than to be able to worry about the land raider, I hope there might be another unit that is capable of taking on the land raider in your army. That's a nasty unit to take in a 1k game

I used cato 's special rule to give a lascannon/melta squad tankhunter it also dissects AV10-11 (if it hits) and I am taking an attack bike for suicide charge tactics against it.

Dervos wrote:

apple1988218 wrote:Libby + shrouding (for 2+ cover)
Hereticus Inquisitor + Psyoculum ( for BS10)
3 plasma cannon servitor
9 jakaero weapon smith
Techmarine + convers bemer (for 3+ cover)

can kill any GK death star XD

T_T but this is normal space marines......

What he said x-x vanilla marines advice? and dude, I also asked for people to not put "go grey knights, go blood angels" things, I kinda created this thread for vanilla marines against the universe.

sorry about poor english, i just misunderstand this thread....

apple1988218 wrote:

sorry about poor english, i just misunderstand this thread....

oh, whoops! sorry about that. Didn't see the flag before. The gist of it is I need help killing other powerfull units with my codex marines. Right now we can check the and eldar, thousand sons, so lets refocus on the meq's


I need help killing thunder hammer terminators with stormsheilds. I did some "dry tests" by rolling 17 die for an example of my "plasma wave". on a good note, most hit and most wound, but blast those storm shields and TWC to the warp, the test only got 5 wounds on them.

For the terminators, that would be good because the termies have the potential to drown in plasma, but the TWC would only lose 2 guys to a 40p volley.



Did that make sense? O-O

10x Sternguard in a pod with Lysander works every time. The pod guarantees an alpha strike, and Lysander lets you re-roll your bolter shots. Lysander also provides a sponge for high AP shots and some CC deterrence.

Roboute wrote:10x Sternguard in a pod with Lysander works every time. The pod guarantees an alpha strike, and Lysander lets you re-roll your bolter shots. Lysander also provides a sponge for high AP shots and some CC deterrence.

hmmm, okay. but A.) can he also fit in a rhino? (no drop pods) and B.) would he work well with cato? (I just put together the model I would use for him)

Tiger9gamer wrote:

Roboute wrote:10x Sternguard in a pod with Lysander works every time. The pod guarantees an alpha strike, and Lysander lets you re-roll your bolter shots. Lysander also provides a sponge for high AP shots and some CC deterrence.

hmmm, okay. but A.) can he also fit in a rhino? (no drop pods) and B.) would he work well with cato? (I just put together the model I would use for him)

Lysander comes with Termintor Armor so no, he can't go in a rhino.

Against T-hammers, did you account for your Null Zone? Honestly, plasma + null zone is the best you are going to get for going after T-hammers. Remember that your Null-Zone affects them the entire phase, so all your vindicators, predators, tactical squads with lascanons and meltaguns, get to fire as well.

17 shots should hit 11-12 times, and wound 9-10. He should save 6 of those in the first go, and then 4 on the second go... so yeah, looking at 5-6 dead terminators if you have null zone and full plasma wave.

How many terminators are you trying to kill?

I know this is a threat about killing deathstars... but have you thought about dropping cato? You already have a librarian... is cato adding 200 points of awesome to your army that wouldn't rather be a couple of dreadnaughts, a couple of landspeeder typhoons, another tactical squad, etc...?

-Myst

Mysticaria wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:

Roboute wrote:10x Sternguard in a pod with Lysander works every time. The pod guarantees an alpha strike, and Lysander lets you re-roll your bolter shots. Lysander also provides a sponge for high AP shots and some CC deterrence.

hmmm, okay. but A.) can he also fit in a rhino? (no drop pods) and B.) would he work well with cato? (I just put together the model I would use for him)

Lysander comes with Termintor Armor so no, he can't go in a rhino.

Against T-hammers, did you account for your Null Zone? Honestly, plasma + null zone is the best you are going to get for going after T-hammers. Remember that your Null-Zone affects them the entire phase, so all your vindicators, predators, tactical squads with lascanons and meltaguns, get to fire as well.

17 shots should hit 11-12 times, and wound 9-10. He should save 6 of those in the first go, and then 4 on the second go... so yeah, looking at 5-6 dead terminators if you have null zone and full plasma wave.

How many terminators are you trying to kill?

I know this is a threat about killing deathstars... but have you thought about dropping cato? You already have a librarian... is cato adding 200 points of awesome to your army that wouldn't rather be a couple of dreadnaughts, a couple of landspeeder typhoons, another tactical squad, etc...?

-Myst

Oh that is right! I can have my typhoon speeder and my lascannon/melta tact squad also try and smoke em' and usually I need to kill deathstars in groups of 5 terminators and 5 TWC (I got the dakka scared outof me when I fought them last)

And I was considering dropping the libby or something. I kinda like cato's special rules, and having one heavy tact squad play dress up as devastators is pretty fun. Plus he and the libby add just a tiny bit of punch to my knight hunter squadboth in shooting and CC. I also thought of a tactic of having him tank some damage because of his artificer armor and FNP.

Another option is to get rid of my one predator and take a missile launcher scout squad instead.

Also should my libby take Gate of Infinity instead of force dome? Force dome can add survivability but its only a 5+ save, and with gate I have the potential to teleport them out of CC.



Plus I dont have a drop pod for lysander to ride in x-x