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Hello Dakkanuts,

Recently I took the dive into the wonderful world that is 8th edition Warhammer Fantasy Battle. For my first army I decided upon taking the forces of the Empire to the field (I genuinely disdain things that aren't humans, call me a xenophobe if you will). So I went ahead and got the new book upon it's release date, and I am just completely befuddled as to what the hell I should do with it. I realize the book is only a week old, and good strategies haven't been thought up yet, but I just need a guiding hand to help me get started. I already have an old battalion that contained 8 Knights, 5 outriders, 10 statetroops, 10 handgunners, 1 cannon, 1 celestial hurricanum (Came with free wizard) and I also bought a box of state troops already assembled to halberds. Also borrowing a block of 20 state troops, 16 handgunners, 9 knights, and 1 cannon from a friend at my FLGS.

Please if anybody could give me advice on what the heck to buy next I would be very appreciative.

I would say it all depends on how you want to play the army.

Generally speaking, you should play up to the strength of your army. The Empire are a bit of a jack of all trades, so it's up to you on what you want your emphasis to be.

In my experience with the new book, I feel the overall feel of the book lends itself more to hand to hand combat. Your shooting units are generally a little pricey for what they do, though having a bit of support artillery is not a bad thing.

If you want to build a "balanced" army, here's a few tips.

State Troops: Shooters are a little pricey. If you do take them, take them as detachments as they will benefit from many rules the parent unit has (battle prayers, steadfast...etc) and you get the extra stand and shoot if your opponent charges your parent unit.

When it comes to the fighters, spearmen are cheap, but generally the worst of the three. Halberdiers are generally favoured as they benefit the most from buffs (Celestial Hurricanum, Hatred, and Battle Prayers.) Swordsmen can be taken as a deep steadfast unit that can tarpit enemies.

Knights can be used in many ways - 5 naked knights acting as enemy chaff/warmachine hunters and redirectors are good - bigger blocks with greatweapons can grind down Str 3 infantry quite well.

Cannons are still pretty important for knocking out enemy monsters. Outriders are ok but I prefer Pistolers for redirectors/war machine hunters.

This is quite a long discussion so I'll leave it at that and see what kind of army you'd like to build.

I prefer to have a force that can atleast put up a good fight on anything and everything that it comes up against. I'm not talking some WAAC power gamer list, but an army that won't have me losing miserably every time.

In my mind that has me using a big blocks of state troops supported by the fantastic warmachines the Empire has at their disposal. Greatwords seem like they would be pretty great considering stubborn with full plate armor. I figured I'd get a block of around 25-30 of them, then give them detachments of handgunners or possibly halberds just to make assaulting the unit that more dissuading.

If you have any other suggestions on the matter please tell me, as I'm still a complete nublet in the game of fantasy.

Zoned wrote:
When it comes to the fighters, spearmen are cheap, but generally the worst of the three. Halberdiers are generally favoured as they benefit the most from buffs (Celestial Hurricanum, Hatred, and Battle Prayers.)

Agree with your on all other point but not this one. Spearmen are the best meat shield right now for the empire. True that you got +1 Str for every attack with your halberdiers but in Horde combat or even steadfast block combat with hatred/reroll to wound + +1 to hit, your +1 Str doesn't worth the 20% cost increase . With the size of empire army 1 more point per model mean you have 50-100 pts extra for better stuffs like magical items or cavalry

To Besbin: I respectfully disagree. If you intend to kill your opponent, Halberdiers are worth it. Despite the points, difference, I feel like Swordsmen with their better WS and parry save are a better steadfast block. Spearmen, IMO, are a weird middle ground - not quite as good in either category, but can do a bit of each. But in all fairness, I've only actually used Halberdiers with the Empire (though I have lots of experience with Clanrats.)

To Zalmout:

Ok, here's a few more tips (assuming you're playing +2000pts.)

Taking a Wizard Lord is a must. The lores of Light, Life, Metal, and Shadow are generally very good for the Empire. Do read the other lores though, as every lore has solid spells.

Taking a Battle Standard Bearer (BSB) and a LD 9 Lord choice is a must, as Empire has mediocre LD values.

If you want Warmachines, the best combo is a Cannon, a Hellblaster, and an Engineer. If you go first, the Hellblaster is usually out of range, so the Engineer helps the cannon snipe big (monsters, chariots...etc) Afterwards, you decide what's more dangerous and have the Engineer help that Warmachine. Note that if you're not going to take the Hellblaster, you should also not take the Engineer.

For State Troops, if you're taking a Horde to fight, you need a minimum of 40 dudes, and 50 is preferable. Add a Warrior Priest for the Hatred and Battle Prayers. Celestial Hurricanum is a great buff as well.

If you want to live and just tie things up, take 35-40 and go 5 wide and 7-8 ranks deep

Great Swords are a great combat unit usually used as a hammer. They don't need to go deep because they are stubborn - so going Horde with a Warrior Priest is popular. I would recommend taking 35+ However, if you're playing against something really killy like a Savage Orc Big 'Un Horde, go 5 wide to minimize the attacks coming at you and stay Stubborn as long as possible.

Pegasus Captains are really good in the Empire as well - fairly cheap, tough (you gain a wound being on a Pegasus,) and versatile (hunt down enemy chaff, kill Warmachines, redirect as a last resort.)

Hopefully that will get you started.

Spearmen vs Swordsmen for an anvil block comes down to what you exepct them to hold up, and if you plan on making them stubborn.

Spearmen are cheaper, so you can get more ranks with them than you will with Swordsmen. If you plan on relying on steadfast, or think you will face alot of opponents who have either WS or S above 4, go with spears.

Swordsmen are more survivable, in certain situations but you wont have nearly as many, so holding steadfast for a long time can be a problem. If you can make them stubborn however, enemy troops with WS and S both at 4 or lower will take longer to wipe them out than they would a similiar point value of spearmen.

Both are viable anvils, and you wont suffer horribly taking one rather than the other, since the results are fairly close either way. If you plan on using your general defensively, tool him up for survivability and toss a crown of command on him, and put him with a unit of swords. They'll last pretty well.

I think the core of a solid Empire should look at two large infantry blocks (at 2,000 point each would have 50 troops, maybe more points depending) with a detachment each (at max size). Each unit has a captain (one may the BSB) and a warrior priest, looking to cast the 5+ ward and maybe the reroll to wound each turn. Put these two units next to each other in the centre of your line, with the detachments flanking each - you then have a centre with Hold the Line and access to excellent, easy to cast buff spells each turn.

Then you fill up the rest of your list with quality support units - demigriffs, knights, captains on pegasus, helblasters and helstorms are all pretty handy, and then you take a mage on top of all that.

I'm not convinced on the new wizard wagons, if you've already got warrior priests then another bound spell isn't needed, and the buffs are pretty minor for the price you're paying.

Zoned wrote:To Besbin: I respectfully disagree. If you intend to kill your opponent, Halberdiers are worth it. Despite the points, difference, I feel like Swordsmen with their better WS and parry save are a better steadfast block. Spearmen, IMO, are a weird middle ground - not quite as good in either category, but can do a bit of each. But in all fairness, I've only actually used Halberdiers with the Empire (though I have lots of experience with Clanrats.)

Halberdiers put out more damage man for man, but the difference isn't that great unless you're looking at high toughness or very heavily armoured opponents, so that the point of difference between the two units means players can legitmately take either unit.

Swordsmen, though, are looking like you're paying two points extra for not much these days. The point of WS is nice, but the 5+ save is negated entirely as often as not, and the parry save is nowhere near as nice as it used to be, now that Empire have easy access to ward saves from Warrior Priests and wizard wagons.

[quiteTaking a Battle Standard Bearer (BSB) and a LD 9 Lord choice is a must, as Empire has mediocre LD values.

I do not find GS to be that great of a hammer. Poor WS, Low S/T and expensive does not a good hammer make. Inner Circle Knights on the other hand....

Greatswords are anvils, not hammers. Granted they do have teeth due to Str5 but overall they are not a unit meant to charge something and kill it.

Throw in a General and a banner of discipline and you have a LD10 stubborn block of Greatswords with hold the line and LD10 Inspiring presence bubble.
Low weapon skill can be overcome with hurricanum and warrior priest.