Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Since the wound and re-roll moral check is generated by the figure carrying the boss pole, does having multiple bosspoles allow you to reroll more times?

No, you can never re-roll a re-roll regardless of source. pg 2 of the rulebook.

Tylarion has it correct, you cannot re-roll a re-roll.

While true in this case you aren't rerolling a reroll. 2 Boss Poles are separate rolls from different models due to wargear they carry. Nothing in the rulebook that says 2 different models may not attempt to rally a broken Mob. Of course you do have to smack a boy each time you try it.

Same thing with Grot Riggers taken as wargear and also a Big Mek embarked or in Base contact with an immobilized vehicle. You use the Riggers to attempt a repair and if it fails you use the Big Meks Tool kit to attempt a reapair.

That is not what a boss pole does, a boss pole specifically allows a re-roll of a failed moral test it does not allow a rally test to rally a broken mob.

Ork Codex Page 92 wrote:"each time a unit with a bosspole fails a morale test you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit (not on the model with the bosspole) in order to re-roll that morale test."

I agree with The AvengingKnee. You'll only get 1 reroll.

However, with multiple boss poles in a Nob Squad, you can play the wound allocation game a bit more. Also, if you lose one boss pole, you'll still have another...

Correct "a bosspole allows you to reroll a failed morale test".
One bosspole carried by a Warboss allows a reroll of a failed morale test.
Another bosspole carried by a Nob allows a reroll of that same failed test. It isn't a reroll of the failed reroll.

You aren't rerolling the reroll you are making a separate roll for each.

What you are saying is exactly a reroll of a failed reroll, the boss poles rule even says it is a reroll of a failed moral test, a seconed boss pole would definitely be rerolling a reroll.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Correct "a bosspole allows you to reroll a failed morale test".
One bosspole carried by a Warboss allows a reroll of a failed morale test.
Another bosspole carried by a Nob allows a reroll of that same failed test. It isn't a reroll of the failed reroll.

You aren't rerolling the reroll you are making a separate roll for each.

No no no, I failed a test, the boss pole allows me to reroll the test, if I try to use another boss pole I am rerolling a reroll of the test, the test never changes.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Correct "a bosspole allows you to reroll a failed morale test".
One bosspole carried by a Warboss allows a reroll of a failed morale test.
Another bosspole carried by a Nob allows a reroll of that same failed test. It isn't a reroll of the failed reroll.

You aren't rerolling the reroll you are making a separate roll for each.

You just described rerolling a reroll. It doesn't matter the source. This is specifically not allowed.

Sorry I don't see it that way. But this isn't an issue for me as I don't field Mobs of Nobs. Also I wouldn't have an issue if another ork player chose to do this in a game.

I can see how this would be interpreted either way.

Why would the orks boss pole be different than any other time a model has multiple rules that allow a reroll?

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Sorry I don't see it that way. But this isn't an issue for me as I don't field Mobs of Nobs. Also I wouldn't have an issue if another ork player chose to do this in a game.

No reason to apologize. This is the "You Make the Call" forum where rules discussions take place. Not everyone will agree on every ruling or interpretation.

You and I can agree to disagree on this one, man. I certainly wasn't attacking anyone, just giving my opinion. It's all good.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Sorry I don't see it that way. But this isn't an issue for me as I don't field Mobs of Nobs. Also I wouldn't have an issue if another ork player chose to do this in a game.

I can see how this would be interpreted either way.

Not, it cannot be interpreted either way. Your way you are creating 2 morale check results that sit side by side - something you have no pemrission to do.

You fail a morale check, using a boss pole to reroll it. You stop, because even if you fail this one you cannto use a boss pole again, as the only thing it is allowed to reroll is THE morale check you just failed, nothing else.

No offense taken or meant by me. I would see a reroll of a reroll if I attempted another one using the same nob and the same bosspole. To me using a different Nob or Warboss is akin to attempting a separate roll.

Refreshing to see a disagreement that isn't turnig into an "OMG what an idiotic thing to say", though I'm sure someone will pipe in with that.

EDIT: Here it comes.

Joy.

The thing you are rolling is the morale cehck, with a boss pole providing a reroll. You cannot then reroll this morale check, no matter what, because you aremost definitely rerolling a reroll.

Your "source" idea has no basis in the actual rules, because using a different nob / warboss / etc is NOT starting again with a new morale check, you are rerolling the same morale check.

well the actual wording for the bosspole is:
"each time a unit with a bp fails a moral test"

so you take your test and fail it,
bp and take a moral test, fail it,
bp again til you succeed

No, because a BP re-roll isn't a second failed morale test.
It's still the first test, it just is also still failed.

You're trying to re-roll a re-roll.

Arguing that it's difference sources brings in all kinds of other re-rolls as well.

Scything Talons when the unit has Preferred Enemy - both allow rerolls on a miss, and they're different sources - would you allow them to re-roll twice?

sirlynchmob wrote:well the actual wording for the bosspole is:
"each time a unit with a bp fails a moral test"

so you take your test and fail it,
bp and take a moral test, fail it,
bp again til you succeed

You missed the second part, which is that you get to reroll the morale test. It isnt a new test, it is the same test, rerolled. If you werent rerolling the first morale check, then the result of that morale check - failure - would still stand, meanin gyou just took a wound to gain zero benefit. Absolutely none.

You cannot reroll a reroll. No ifs or buts. Its also in the Ork FAQ, from memory, in case the plain rules on page 2 just arent enough.

guys, the rule for the bosspole:

From ork codex:
Each time a unit with a bosspole fails a Morale Test, you may inflic a wound on the unit (not the model with the BP) in order to reroll that morale test.

It is quite clear (adding to the fact the BRB says you cannot reroll a reroll). A unit may reroll a Morale test. No where does it says that a unit with a model may reroll thanks to that model. It says if a unit has a BP, it can reroll, I take it that, with the BRB no double reroll rule that you only roll the BP once, even if you have 10 BPs in the unit.

rigeld2 wrote:No, because a BP re-roll isn't a second failed morale test.
It's still the first test, it just is also still failed.

You're trying to re-roll a re-roll.

Arguing that it's difference sources brings in all kinds of other re-rolls as well.

Scything Talons when the unit has Preferred Enemy - both allow rerolls on a miss, and they're different sources - would you allow them to re-roll twice?

I'm not saying its a different source. I'm not sure how scything talons work, I don't have their codex on me, so I can't really comment on that.

The way preferred enemy is worded says you can always reroll your 'to hit' roll, I'm not sure if this is a case of a more specific rule overriding a general rule, but in any case, you're not just rerolling misses, you have to re roll the entire 'to hit' roll. As this could result in someone spending all game trying to get a decent roll, I would say RAI it was only meant to be rerolled once. I'm just baffled why they would start that with you can always reroll.

It just seems to be that the inclusion of "each time you fail a moral test" can override the only one reroll rule. Because the reroll is still a moral test, and failing the test allows you to use the BP. codex trumps rules.

Q: How do dice rolls that can trigger an effect from a
special rule (such as rolling a To Hit when shooting a
weapon with the Gets Hot! special rule) interact with
re-rolls? (p2)
A: You only check to see if the effect has been
triggered after the re-rolls have been made.

After the reroll, did you fail a moral test? yes, BP triggers. Can you spend all game rerolling the test? No, you're either going to make the test at some point or run out of orks to bash.

That FAQ is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand. You do not 'trigger an effect' when you re-roll the dice (the trigger in this case is based on the specific roll of the dice, a 1 for gets hot is the example).

In this case you roll the morale test. If you fail, you re-roll the test. For all intents and purposes that first test has been re-rolled. The rules on the pole do not say roll until you pass, they say you can re-roll it. Once you do, you have done what the Boss Pole allows on the original test - any other triggers need to come off the new test (which is a re-roll and cannot be rolled again).

page 2 of the rulebook wrote:Re-rolls
In some situations the rules allow you a 're-roll' of the dice. This is exactly as it sounds - pick up the dice you wish to re-roll and roll them again. The second score counts, even if it means a worse result than the first and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll.

page 92 of the Ork Codex, Bosspole wrote:Each time a unit with a Bosspole fails a Morale test you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit ... in order to re-roll that morale test.

The rulebook is pretty clear on that no single dice may be re-rolled again and the bosspole specifically mentions it is a re-roll and gives no exception to the rule in the main rulebook.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Correct "a bosspole allows you to reroll a failed morale test".
One bosspole carried by a Warboss allows a reroll of a failed morale test.
Another bosspole carried by a Nob allows a reroll of that same failed test. It isn't a reroll of the failed reroll.

You aren't rerolling the reroll you are making a separate roll for each.

What you're trying to say is that if bosspole one fails the roll granted by it is invalidated, and the original morale check is what you're rerolling. The problem in that line of reasoning is based on how rerolling works.

Rulebook Page 2 wrote:The second score counts, even if it means a worse result than the first, and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll.

That quote from the rulebook explains how the line of reasoning is false. Once you trigger one bosspole, that original roll is gone and is replaced by the reroll granted by the bosspole. If with the bosspole the roll is failed, you try to trigger another bosspole. The dice roll was a reroll, so the rule on page 2 prevents you from using a second boss pole since you cannot reroll a reroll.

sirlynchmob wrote:The way preferred enemy is worded says you can always reroll your 'to hit' roll, I'm not sure if this is a case of a more specific rule overriding a general rule, but in any case, you're not just rerolling misses, you have to re roll the entire 'to hit' roll. As this could result in someone spending all game trying to get a decent roll, I would say RAI it was only meant to be rerolled once. I'm just baffled why they would start that with you can always reroll.

Preferred Enemy wrote:Such troops can always re-roll their rolls to hit in close combat against their preferred enemy.

Between that and

Re-rolls wrote:This is exactly as it sounds – pick up the dice you wish to re-roll and roll them again. The second score counts, even if it means a worse result than the first, and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once regardless of the source of the re-roll.

You are misreading the rules. There is zero permission anywhere to allow multiple re-rolls. That's RAW not RAI.
You've cited nothing that would allow a Boss Poll to override this restriction.

I missed this completely in my first look over of the bosspole rules;

Each time a unit with a Bosspole fails a Morale test you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit...


That sentence tells us that it doesn't matter if there's one bosspole or 10 because the activation of a bosspole is unit wide. Since it says, "each time a unit with a bosspole fails a morale test" that means that only one bosspole per unit can activate.

Thanks guys X D

Lone Dragoon wrote:I missed this completely in my first look over of the bosspole rules;

Each time a unit with a Bosspole fails a Morale test you may choose to inflict a wound on that unit...


That sentence tells us that it doesn't matter if there's one bosspole or 10 because the activation of a bosspole is unit wide. Since it says, "each time a unit with a bosspole fails a morale test" that means that only one bosspole per unit can activate.

Wow, that never occurred to me. That will shorten this kind of discussion by so much. You win the thread, sir.