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Based on some prior advice, I've finally decided on what I feel would be a good list for playing in 1850 tourney using codex space marines.


HQ
Lysander, in LRR with Termies

Elites
Assault Terminators x 5
Land Raider Redeemer as dedicated transport.

Troops

Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasma
5 Man Tac Squad, Seargant with Powerfist

Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasma
5 Man Tac Squad, Seargant with Powerfist

Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasma
5 Man Tac Squad, Seargant with Powerfist

Razorback w/ Lascannon & TL Plasma
5 Man Tac Squad, Seargant with Powerfist

Razorback w/ TL Lascannon
5 Man Tac Squad, Seargant with Powerfist

Heavy Support

Thunderfire Cannon

Thunderfire Cannon

Predator w/ Autocannon and Heavy Bolters

TOTAL - 1850




I think this list is fairly strong against most armies. Between Lysander and the 2 techmarines, I will have 3 Bolster Defences to use, so my side of the table is gonna have some goood cover.

I have 8 Templates from the TFC for hordes, aswell as the burnin' power of the LRR.

My troops are pretty much just good old Razorback spam to hopefully de-mech anyone whos going that route, quite early in the game. Sarges' allow them to hurt stuff in assault.

The Predator Destructor provides some decent fire support.

Lysander and Termies hit things with hammer eventually...



What do you guys think? Does this list seem pretty decent? Any adjustments you would make to this?

I think you might struggle a bit here unfortunately. Against horde nids + orks you'll be rockin due to the TFC's and the LRR (Redeemers are a nightmare for Orks) but your anti-tank is not fantastic.

5 razorbacks with lascannons, only one of which is twin-linked. So if we take the 4 with the las-plas, statistically one will miss with its lascannon, and one will fail to damage an AV11 tank. Ok so you have an autocannon on the predator, but your ability to pop transports is a little underwhelming. And thats if you go first. If you go second against most forms of Marines, guard or dark eldar you'll likely have two or three of your razors destroyed or unable to shoot, seriously hindering what you can throw back at them.

You say that you are gonna have a lot of 3+ cover in your deployment zone, but who's gonna be sitting in it, 5 man marine squads with no heavy weapon? I think you have a lot of points wound up in things like your razor turrets and powerfists on the sarge's that could get you a Dev squad ( i know your HS is full, I would drop the predator, or at least upgrade it to autolas and drop a TFC) and a couple of the tactical squads more guys so you can combat squad them and stick the heavy weapons in the 3+ terrain. Scout squads with camo cloaks sitting in bolstered terrain - 2+ - are a bollocks to get rid of.

On a side note about the 3+ cover thing - I took a 1500 pts marine force full of 5 dreads, two of which were Ironclads + vulkan, so I obviously only had minimal troops. I had a TFC and the necessary MOTF, so hoped to utilise the terrain thing to the max to keep my troops alive while the dreads smash - I didn't have a single ruin in my deployment zone the entire Throne of Skulls - 5 games!!!! Thats just bad luck though so i'm sure you'll be fine.

I think Lysander works very well in a pod with a melta/storm shield command squad. He comes down, the squad shoot up a nasty tank or transport, Lysander takes some high strentgh weaponary in the face like a boss, then mashes things. The opponent has to deal with him immediately, which lets a lot of the rest of your army advance with less focused firepower directed at it. Obviously the LRR with termies and Lysander is good, but its what, about 650 pts?

Lysander is not my favourite character. He is expensive for what he brings and takes from an army.

Usually I would state you have the wrong codex for your list.

Try not concentrating on troops. Vanilla marines have a lot of cool units, bring as many as possible. For example, dreads can move 6'' alongside razorbacks and fire, also there other units that you could put in razorbacks.

Seems like sound advice.

Do you guys think I should drop one of the TFCs?

And which is better, TL-Lascannon or Las-Plas on the Razorbacks? I figured Las-Plas because its a pinch more versatile and can survive a weapon destroyed result and still retain some value.

I also understand about the troops issue... I like dreadnaughts, but have never really considered one.

Hmmm...

Onapoda wrote:Seems like sound advice.

Do you guys think I should drop one of the TFCs?

And which is better, TL-Lascannon or Las-Plas on the Razorbacks? I figured Las-Plas because its a pinch more versatile and can survive a weapon destroyed result and still retain some value.

I also understand about the troops issue... I like dreadnaughts, but have never really considered one.

Hmmm...

No. People who dislike the TFCs tend to be people who haven't used one. People who use one would always take two. Like most things in 40k you can not rely one to get the job done. You will need to be antitank threat elsewhere.
This leads to TLlascannon as you have the turrets. Las-plas is better in general, 25% less hits than the TLlascannon but with a plasmagun on something where it getting hot does not matter.

Onapoda wrote:Seems like sound advice.

Do you guys think I should drop one of the TFCs?

And which is better, TL-Lascannon or Las-Plas on the Razorbacks? I figured Las-Plas because its a pinch more versatile and can survive a weapon destroyed result and still retain some value.

I also understand about the troops issue... I like dreadnaughts, but have never really considered one.

Hmmm...

Riflemen (dreadnoughts with 2 Twin Linked Autocannons) are very popular choice, this is due to them being a mobile gun platform (that can also tarpit pretty well), it puts out 4 Str 7 shots while moving 6" which makes it ideal suppress/destroy light to medium vehicles (i.e. Av10-12 so rhinos, speeders, other dreadnoughts, etc).

Essentially your current anti-tank is an autocannon & 5 lascannons, which sadly will struggle against in the mech heavy environment.

Also I prefer Las/Plas, but it comes down to personally preference against twin-linked las.

MFletch wrote:

Onapoda wrote:Seems like sound advice.

Do you guys think I should drop one of the TFCs?

And which is better, TL-Lascannon or Las-Plas on the Razorbacks? I figured Las-Plas because its a pinch more versatile and can survive a weapon destroyed result and still retain some value.

I also understand about the troops issue... I like dreadnaughts, but have never really considered one.

Hmmm...

No. People who dislike the TFCs tend to be people who haven't used one. People who use one would always take two. Like most things in 40k you can not rely one to get the job done. You will need to be antitank threat elsewhere.
This leads to TLlascannon as you have the turrets. Las-plas is better in general, 25% less hits than the TLlascannon but with a plasmagun on something where it getting hot does not matter.

I'm not sure I agree on taking 2 thunderfire cannons, I use one (and really like it), my lists generally include 2 rifleman, 2 Ac/Las preds & a Thunderfire as a firebase. I've found sometimes the thunderfire can be lacking a target first turn (particularly if your opponent is fully meched), I would be very reluctant to trade a predator for a second thunderfire personally.

I definately want to keep the TFC's. Alot of players at my FLGS are Orks/Nids/Eldar, whos infantry will in theory get mangled by the TFC.

I understand your thoughts on TFC not hitting its mark in Turn 1 if everyone is meched up, but I figured the Tremor round putting vehicles into dangerours terrain tests would be good on its own.

I'm thinking more now of dropping some of the troops, cutting out a couple powerfists to get some of the Rifleman Dreadnoughts...

If I could plunk down my TFC's and Dreads inside of some bolstered up Terrain, I should be good for laying down some good old Imperial Fist seige mode firepower I'd think.

My general feeling is Thunderfire's are pretty good (though rolling bad scatter rolls can be very frustrating). Depending on the armies you play you might be better off with more anti-infantry than anti-tank. Don't expect too much from the tremor round though, it's nice but probably won't do much (more psychological).

I'd also want to make more from the 3 bolster defences & Lysander's bolter drill so I'd be tempted to run something like

Lysander 200
Terminators (w/Cyclone + CF) 235
Rifleman 125pts
Rifleman 125pts

Combat Squad + Las/Plas RB 165pts
Combat Squad + Las/Plas RB 165pts
Combat Squad + Las/Plas RB 165pts
Combat Squad + Las/Plas RB 165pts

Thunderfire Cannon 100pts
Thunderfire Cannon 100pts
Devastors (4 ML) 150pts

TOTAL - 1695

I know Dev's are over-priced, but I like the duality they provide. Lysander and the terminators stroll about looking scary (firing 2 missiles and having 3+ cover) and potentially laying the beat-down if assault elements come too close.
I'd also be tempted to take 2 MM/HF speeders, or some MM attack bikes to provide some melta (I'd hold them back near your fire base and let your opponent come to you). Just my thoughts anyways.

MFletch wrote:Try not concentrating on troops. Vanilla marines have a lot of cool units, bring as many as possible. For example, dreads can move 6'' alongside razorbacks and fire, also there other units that you could put in razorbacks.

Pretty much this.

C:SM TAC squads are some of the worst units in the codex. If your going to go with C:SM, utilize their strengths.
* Dreads as elite choices.
* Land speeder storm
* T-Fire Cannons
* Cheap TH/SS termies
* Null Zone
* Cheap predators
* Fleeting terminators with shrike
* Vulcan armies
* Bikes as troops
* Sternguard
* Combat Tactics

^This^