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This is almost always brought up by guys new to Infinity from 40k. What would a space marine be like in Infinity? While some say he'd be like TAG, I disagree. He'd be about like an Anathematic or Charontid I think. I've never tried this but thought I'd give it a go. I started with the Charontid as the base.

Weapons: The bolt gun is said to explode things so what would be the equivalent? Boarding Shotgun with X-Visor. Range is not longer as much of a problem with the X-Visor and the okay burst, high ST and template makes for something pretty tough. I wasn't sure about the Bolt Pistol but I thought it has to be better than a regular pistol.

Armor/Equipment: Then thinking of the marine armor I knew it need to be at least ARM 5. Not TAG level but almost. Fluff also has them with great senses and gear I thought the basic guy should have MSVisor L1. Then an Auto-Medkit for this healing ability.

Stats: CC 15 is higher than norm but on par with like a Hsien or Charontid. BS 13 is pretty good and I think fine for a Tactical Marine. PH 15 is above normal. WIP 14 is on part with most high level humans. ARM 5 as said. BTS-3 is good but not fantastic. There armor is good but not high-tech. W 2

Tactical Space Marine Boarding Shotgun / Assault Pistol, Knife
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:13 PH:15 WIP:14 ARM:5 BTS:-6 W:2
Multispectral Visor L1, X-Visor, Auto-Medkit

Other Weapon Options: HMG, Missile Launcher, Flame Thrower

90 Points | SWC: 1

Certainly very though but still killable with AP weapons, he's hackable, and he would take up most of the force so there won't be too many orders for him.

If I were to actually do something like this I'd also use one of those True-Scale marines.

Haha nice =)
But I think I would at least raise the BS =P

True scale terminator? There's your TAG!

I thought of raising the BS but 13 is pretty good. It's above norm of 10-12.

I really want to compare them to the standard 'HI' troop, but perhaps better trained.

MOV: 4-4 seems reasonable considering they have higher initiative than 'average' humans. Their armor is not encumbering.

The PanO Orc and Aleph Asura have CC:15, so that seems reasonable.

Both the PanO Orc and Aleph Asura have BS14. It seems insulting for a Space Marine to not have at least that.

Space Marines are really bulky. PH: 15 seems reasonable as it is 1 above most HI.

WIP is interesting. The Orc has WIP:12 whereas the Asura is a heartless robot at WIP: 15. PanO has 'guardsmen' morale anyways. The Yu Jing Invincibles have WIP: 13, but they're just guardsmen with much higher resolve.
Space Marines' ATSKNF fits with WIP: 14 just fine. Matches the Hac Tao.

ARM: 5 is the upper end of armor for HI, but fits regardless. Anything higher is TAG territory.

BTS: -3 seems a bit low with the emphasis on 65 hearts, 14 lungs, and the ability to spit acid and other exaggerations. Plus, a -3 BTS means they're not as resilient to poison and such as they're famed to me.

W: 2 is standard for HI.

fair enough =P
And by doing some maths I realised 13-14 would be ok
I guess =P

I've been doing something similar. I'm probably going to be really silly one day and do a Imperium vs. Infinity game using approximated Infinity profiles. Probably lead by an Inquisitor, add in some various members of their retinue, a Space Marine as heavy muscle, some Imperial Guard and maybe a few others. (If I were being REALLY silly, a Dreadnought, for which I'd probably start with the Jotum profile and add a very nasty CCW.)

Personally though, I think you've overcosted him. Compare to the ~70 pt Asuras who get better CC*, BS, BTS and MSV. And a better CCW. Sure. there's a lower PH and NWI isn't quite as formidable (on average) as Automedikit though... but overall, he's losing out.

*Although Absolutionis seems to think otherwise. I've got 16 in my HS file?

As for what the bolter is... well, if I had to go for only what's in Infinity - the Feuerbach, as its description is basically identical. An automatic weapon with boosted AP explosive projectiles.

I figured different types of marines would have slight changes like Assault Marines better CC and Dogged, Devastators MSV L2 and courage. A Scout would have ARM 3, Camo, Infiltration, Multi-Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, etc.

I agree about BTS. I'll change it to -6

I tried to think of him as a whole. Not just for the parts. He might seem low in some things but overall he's strong.

I'd say a feuerbach is better than a bolter though. I guess i'm thinking of how a round will hit someone and explode and the that's almost how a Shotgun works in Infinity. There's first the initial target and then the small teardrop spreads out from him.

If I were to go lower on him it wouldnt' be much. Maybe down to 80

Yes. Asura has better CC, my error.
It may make sense flavorwise for an Asura to have much better CC if only because they're more lithe and unencumbered.

As for weaponry, a standard Rifle works just fine. The explosive nature of the bolter rounds could be reflected in the weapon being a T2 Rifle or DA Rifle.

The Bolter has the same range as a Lasgun, so Rifle works just fine. Marines have a Bolt Pistol as a sidearm, so Combi wouldn't work well for this gun.

I disagree about the pistol being an assault pistol. All the fluff reflects that the Bolt Pistol has a rate of fire slower than that of a Bolter. Maybe a T2 Pistol or DA Pistol would work; doesn't exist yet, but nothing complicated about it.

If you're willing to go the route of Bolt weapons are DA (and not T2), then a Fuerbach would work as a Heavy Bolter and the Chainsword could be a DA CCW.
Power Weapons are Monofilament and given only as an Lt option.
Assault troops would have AD: Combat Drop but no options for heavy weapons or even Boltguns. Should be a balancing factor. Jump Pack allows for MOV:4-4
"And They Shall Know No Fear" could be reflected in them being Religious Troops. Flavor is there too.

It doesn't seem too unreasonable for a full 300pt to field only three Marines. They'll be starved for orders because they're outnumbered. They won't have the trickery of TO Camo or Impersonation and the like. They're too barbaric to learn Martial Arts.

BS 13 is pretty much right: 65% basic chance of hitting, very similar to the 66.7% chance that BS 4 gives in 40K.

CDK wrote:There's first the initial target and then the small teardrop spreads out from him.

That's really more like Metal Storm ammunition. But, ultimately, the X-Visor won't increase the Bolter's range past 24", and I really think they should at least match rifles for range.

And bolters are bloody nasty weapons. Dam 14 AP+DA doesn't seem excessive given that things like Ojótniks and Boarding shotguns get Dam 14 AP and those aren't hypersonic armour piercing grenades!
But what you said gives me an idea. If you had a Deathwatch (or other suitable veteran) Marine, you could have a MULTI like weapon that could pick from things like Metal Storm (Shotgun), Hellfire (Viral), and maybe Tempest (Plasma with no area of effect).

If I were to go lower on him it wouldnt' be much. Maybe down to 80

That's still Achilles territory, and I don't think he adds up to an Achilles (who's better on every stat, gets better weapons and some not unimpressive special rules).

~~~~~

Checking my own notes, this was one version of what I came up with, largely the Asura rules with +1 PH, different weapons (I took the combination as I had some reference of the relative costs of a Spitfire/Pistol and Feuerbach/Assault from the Azra'il. I agree with Absolutionis that Assault/Bolt pistols are not equivalent, but it's only an approximation at this stage) and Religious but downgraded MSV and CCW (the latter of which I could guess a cost for quite easily).

Space Marine Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, Knife
MOV:4-4 CC:16 BS:14 PH:15 WIP:15 ARM:5 BTS:-6 W:2
Religious Troop, Multispectral Visor L1, V:No Wound Incapacitation

75 Points | SWC: 1.5

Which seemed a fairish price to me, based on the relative costs that tend to separate the kit/rule changes I've made. A bit better than the Spitfire Asura, but clearly not the equal of Achilles.

~~~~~

In any case, a crossover game is starting to sound increasingly fun. Still silly, but fun.

I was sticking to already existing weaponry. Not making anything new. So that's why I went with Boarding shotgun. BTW the Boarding shotgun can do both Normal and AP Rounds. Just not both.

I agree with the Assault pistol but there's only two options for pistols so I went with that. I'm not going to make something.

I agree with the V:NWI and Religious. Though with a Feuerback I'd have the price higher. Better too high than too low

The X-Visor doesn't make the range longer it just makes it better. So at long range it's no longer -3. That's great with the high BS.

How about this? Since it's translating it into Infinity, both weapons could be an option? Boarding SG, Feuerbach, HMG, Missile Launcher, Flame Thrower, etc.

Another thing: It's a Tactical Marine. Not Assault. That's why I had the CC only has high as some really good humans.

Here other HI combat monsters for comparison

CHARONTID Plasma Rifle, Sepsitor, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW (80 | 1)
MOV:4-2 CC:15 BS:13 PH:14 WIP:16 ARM:5 BTS:-6 W:2
V: No Wound Incapacitation


80 Points | SWC: 1

───────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 1/Irrs: 0):

ASURA MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW (73)
MOV:4-4 CC:16 BS:14 PH:14 WIP:15 ARM:5 BTS:-6 W:2
V: No Wound Incapacitation, Multispectral Visor L3


73 Points | SWC: 0

───────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 1/Irrs: 0):

HSIEN MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW (60)
MOV:4-2 CC:16 BS:14 PH:14 WIP:14 ARM:4 BTS:-6 W:2
Martial Arts L2, Multispectral Visor L2


60 Points | SWC: 0

───────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regs: 1/Irrs: 0):

JOAN OF ARC MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW (61)
MOV:4-2 CC:18 BS:15 PH:15 WIP:15 ARM:5 BTS:-6 W:2
Martial Arts L3, Inspiring Leadership, V: No Wound Incapacitation, Religious Troop


61 Points | SWC: 0

CDK wrote:Another thing: It's a Tactical Marine. Not Assault. That's why I had the CC only has high as some really good humans.

Current fluff is that Marines go through the Devastator and Assault squads before entering the Tactical companies.

I don't hugely like Ward's choice there, but having to roll with it, it would mean that a Tactical Marine would have plenty of CC experience. As for how much of a monster he'll be in CCW, he'll be kept somewhat in check by poor weapons.

Though with a Feuerback I'd have the price higher.

Maybe, but I'm rounding to the nearest 5 for the moment, and I think the 80 point range of Charontids and Achilles is a bit much.

I don't really think that it's necessary to be too balanced for a tongue-in-cheek universe crossover. I might take it more seriously if I decided I wanted to use the rules for GrimDark skirmishing on a more permanent basis - which could be a cool project, but one to try after I've got more experience of the system, I think.

Aye. Assault Marines aren't better-trained at close-combat than Tactical marines. They're just more specialized in their equipment. Same with Devastators.

I rather disagree with NWI. If anything, it prevents an "Apothecary" from being able to Doctor a fallen marine back up.

Having the Bolter be a 'boarding shotgun' seems rather strange if only because the boarding shotgun spreads into a template after impact. There is nothing in the Bolter's fluff that indicates anything like that. The bolter enters the body with an armor-piercing casing and then explodes using the warhead contained within. Infinity reflects with with Double-Action or even T2 special ammo just fine.

It'd also be rather strange not to have the Bolt Pistol have similar functionality to the Bolter considering both use the same ammo with one simply being a smaller version of the other. Is a DA Pistol really that revolutionary?
Personally, I'm still confused about how DA or EXP CC weapons exist in the main Infinity game.

Absolutionis wrote:I rather disagree with NWI. If anything, it prevents an "Apothecary" from being able to Doctor a fallen marine back up.

True, but it's just a hacked about Asura profile at the moment, and I do feel that it's appropriate for a Marine to be able to take more beating than an average HI and still keep going. A regular HI has a suit of power armour with medical systems. A Space Marine gets that, a huge amount of extra bulk, a reinforced skeleton, instant blood clotting, as well as redundant spares of several internal organs.

If you really wanted to drop the NWI (not that this outright prevents healing them), I'd probably want to swing three wounds. But that does complicate guessing a cost a bit.

Is a DA Pistol really that revolutionary?

It is a bit of a complication.

Tell the truth, I think I'm more tempted to lose the pistol entirely. I know Tactical Marines get them in the 5th ed Codex, but that's not been the case previously.
(It'll also avoid the inevitable "Why can't I dual-wield for an extra attack" question. )

More sensibly, it'd also scale their power back a mite, which would make it easier to justify trying to leave a little clear water between them and TAGs on the points front (as opposed to having to add extra points for upgrading their pistol to a believable interpretation of a bolt pistol). This would also let the general region of close quarters work be appreciatively better handled by pistol/CCW armed Assault Marines who'd get to enjoy short range bonuses.

The first problem is which Marines are you trying to convert to Infinity stats - in-game Marines or background Marines? Even without going to the sillyness of Movie Marines there's a huge difference.

If you're interested in in-game Marines I'll dig out the stat conversion stuff I did awhile ago...

Background, although a version that's actually within the realms of sanity. So not "Propaganda Marines".

Mind you, I'd be interested in seeing stat conversion stuff.

Off the top of my head it's something like:

Infinity BS = 40k BS + 8

So Orks are BS10, IG BS11, Marines BS12


Infinity CC = 40k WSx2 + A + I + 2

So Orks 4x2+2+2+4 = CC14
Marines 4x2+1+4+4 = CC15
Guardsman 3x2+1+3+4 = CC12


PH = 40k T + I and some fudge-factor.

WIP = 40k Ld + 5 plus some fudge-factor for special rules.

So Orks WIP12
Marines WIP14

ARM = number of 'pips' of saving throw, +1 to +3 for fields etc.

So Orks ARM1
Marines ARM4
Terminators ARM6 (5 for save, +1 for field)

Interesting, but I think the variation on the BS stat might be lacking. As most things are BS 2-4, but Infinity BS values spread over a much wider range.

I suspect that you meant for PH to be S + T + I as just T + I seems very low. But in truth, I think it probably needs a +1 or +2 on there or something. (Mind you, that could get a bit mad with Wraithguard or Dreadknights)

ARM... well, seeing as this is a bit like Defence in LoTR, I think there should be allowance for toughness. Perhaps Toughness - Sv + 3.

Yes, I forgot S in the PH, like I said this was going from memory.

I've done a revision here with some of the suggestions. One thing to note is that I'm thinking of this as something say Aleph creates not a dimensional portal from which a space marine pops out.

How about instead of NWI he would get Regeneration and Courage. Regeneration with that high PH will be monster.

Tactical Space Marine Feuerbach / Pistol, Knife
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:13 PH:15 WIP:14 ARM:5 BTS:-6 W:2
Religious, Multispectral Visor L1, X-Visor, Regeneration, Courage

Other Weapon Options: HMG, Missile Launcher, Flame Thrower, Boarding Shotgun

90 Points | SWC: 1.5

One thing to note is that I'm thinking of this as something say Aleph creates

I think that's not a great move. If you start looking at what the various Infinity factions could and couldn't do, then you'll end up with something that isn't a Space Marine. Don't worry about explaining why they might be alongside each other. It doesn't really matter. But if you have to, blame the Warp.

With that said, I wouldn't go with Regeneration. It doesn't seem appropriate to the fluff (they're tough, but they're not Wolverine), and it'd be horribly over the top in game.

IMHO, instead of complicating things trying to bring a space marine in to the Infinity setting why don't just represent a marine with one of the Infinity profiles? Wasn't that the reason behind the "40k to Infinity" thread? using 40k minis with Infinity profiles? just look for a close representation.

Tadaaah!

SOGARAT Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW (70 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:17 BS:13 PH:15 WIP:13 ARM:6 BTS:-3 W:2
Regular, Not Impetuous, Cube, Morat, Linkable
AutoMedikit, V: Courage


70 Points | SWC: 1.5

-I too agree Feuerbach fits the Bolter description.
-The Morat rule (religious + increased retreat threshold) makes up for space marines martial discipline and will of power.
-ARM 6, 2 wounds and Medikit represents quite well the natural tougness of the space marines.
-CC 17 PHIS 15 AP CCW makes them the formidable brutal warriors they are.
-Acceptable elite BS.

I don't think they need increased speed or higher BTS, they are already very tough with this profile. Maybe you want +1 WIP, I think Morat and Corageous make up for that.
And let's not forget a 3 man link team of these bad boys is is a force to be reckoned with, they are truly superhumans (supermonkeys).

Why did I miss the Sogarat! He is the closest I think. I didn't realize he has a ARM of 6! Wow. I can't believe they are only 70 pts. too.

They are a great stand-in but it's not as fun as creating it

I suppose if I were to let someone play 40k/Infinity I'd Allow one of these guys in a force as a Marine. I'm surprised he's not bigger with the ARM6 though.

I've made a sample army with a "Space Marine" in it.

GROUP 1 (Regs: 8/Irrs: 0):

SPACE MARINE Feuerbach / Assault Pistol, AP CCW (70 | 1.5)
MOV:4-2 CC:17 BS:13 PH:15 WIP:13 ARM:6 BTS:-3 W:2
AutoMedikit, V: Courage

IMPERIAL INQUISITOR Lieutenant (CH: Mimetism)[/b] AP Rifle, Light Flamethrower / Pistol, CCW (47)
MOV:4-4 CC:15 BS:13 PH:13 WIP:13 ARM:4 BTS:0 W:1
Shock Immunity, Veteran, CH: Mimetism, Lieutenant

3x IMPERIAL GUARD Rifle / Pistol, Knife (9)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1

IMPERIAL GUARD Rifle, Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife (14 | 1)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1

IMPERIAL GUARD AP HMG / Pistol, Knife (29 | 1)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1

IMPERIAL GUARD DÓCTOR Rifle / Pistol, Knife (13)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Doctor


GROUP 2 (Regs: 4/Irrs: 0):

SCOUT Ojótnik, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife (26)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:13 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
CH: Camouflage, Infiltration

ENGINE SEER (Disp. Control Traktor Mul) Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife (18)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
V: Courage, Engineer, Traktor Mul Control Device

TRAKTOR MUL Katyusha MRL / Electric Pulse (18 | 1)
MOV:4-2 CC:8 BS:10 PH:8 WIP:12 ARM:2 BTS:0 STR:1
Baggage

IMPERIAL PRIEST (Control Device) Rifle, Light Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife (34)
MOV:4-4 CC:13 BS:11 PH:11 WIP:13 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1
Control Device

3x ARCO FLAGELENTS AP CCW
MOV:6-6 CC:18 BS:0 PH:14 WIP:13 ARM:0 BTS:0 W:1
CH: Camouflage, Sensor, Super-Jump, Jungle Terrain, Control Device


[b] 296 Points | SWC: 4.5