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Well I had a look at what Lexicanum had to say about the 13th (dark) founding and it said the Exorcists and the Death Spectres were created during it? Thoughts, views and info would be greatly appreciated.

What is so confusing in particular? There were 12 foundings before it including the first founding, it is called the dark founding, and we only know a couple of chapters formed then. Anything in particular you want to know or discuss?

Yeah I agree. I'm not sure what you are trying to get at here.

Perhaps he's looking for a comparison with the 13th founding and the 21st founding?

In my opinion, the cause of the 21st founding's problems was man-made. Mortals tampering with geneseed in ways they didn't understand. Whereas the 13th founding is psychic or spiritual in nature, like being born under a bad omen or star sign.

As for how this relates to the two chapters in question...I'm not really sure. The exorcists may have an unusual connection to sentient creatures of the warp, something the Grey Knights wished to take advantage of. This would be an interesting theory as to the origins of their unusual practices.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear enough. In the codex it states clearly that nothing is known about any of the chapters created in the 13th founding. So where has the proof for two chapters to be created in the 13th founding come from?

IIRC in the Imperial Armour books about the Badab War it is explicit stated that the Exorcists were part of the 13th founding.

Also this

Ahh thanks very much! Well that sorts out the Exorcists side of things. The Death Spectres however... Apparently something to do with a short story. Any info?

They are all albinos due to a deficiency in their Melanchromic Organ and are currently tasked with keeping a constant watch over the super natural inhabits of the Ghoul Stars.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Death_Spectres#.T46uYNXrSSo
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Spectres

Thanks.

Don't really see how they could be from the 13th founding though. :/

It seems that in the short story 'Exhumed' in 'Victories of the Space Marines' there is a librarian of the death spectres as part of a death watch kill team. I did not read it myself but IIRC every marine in the squad tells something about his chapter (so does the infamous Battle-Brother Darrion Rauth from the Exorcists, whose statements let us assume that the Exorcists have no Librarians and hate all of them. Luckily the Badab books clean up with this.). Perhaps someone who own the book can look it up for us.

Sounds like an interesting read. But yes if anyone has the book could they please look it up for us.

I know that the gene-seed was never submitted to the mechanicus and therefore the proginator chapter is a mystery.

I also know that the death specters had Avarian, the coolest space marine in crossover fanfiction.

jareddm wrote:Perhaps he's looking for a comparison with the 13th founding and the 21st founding?

In my opinion, the cause of the 21st founding's problems was man-made. Mortals tampering with geneseed in ways they didn't understand. Whereas the 13th founding is psychic or spiritual in nature, like being born under a bad omen or star sign.

As for how this relates to the two chapters in question...I'm not really sure. The exorcists may have an unusual connection to sentient creatures of the warp, something the Grey Knights wished to take advantage of. This would be an interesting theory as to the origins of their unusual practices.

WHAT?

The Exorcists were and still are a pet project of the Inquisitionn, as clearly shown in their fluff, they are made so that they are uncorruptable by Deamons through the self-forced expulsion of a deamon.

The 21st founding has no reports of being cursed, it is called the Dark Founding because of the lack of official records.

BluntmanDC wrote:
The 21st founding has no reports of being cursed, it is called the Dark Founding because of the lack of official records.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cursed_Founding disagrees.

The 21st founding chapters have some problems. the Lamenters are 21st founding, and they are infamous for how unlucky they are. The Fire Hawks are/were 21st founding, and well... we all know what happened to them. Then there was the Flame Falcons, who all burst into flame one day... the list goes on. The 21st IS the "Cursed" founding. The "Dark" founding is the 13th founding, because the full list of chapters created in it are shrouded in "darkness" (ie; nobody knows who they are, apart from the Death Specters and one other chapter).

squidhills wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
The 21st founding has no reports of being cursed, it is called the Dark Founding because of the lack of official records.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cursed_Founding disagrees.

The 21st founding chapters have some problems. the Lamenters are 21st founding, and they are infamous for how unlucky they are. The Fire Hawks are/were 21st founding, and well... we all know what happened to them. Then there was the Flame Falcons, who all burst into flame one day... the list goes on. The 21st IS the "Cursed" founding. The "Dark" founding is the 13th founding, because the full list of chapters created in it are shrouded in "darkness" (ie; nobody knows who they are, apart from the Death Specters and one other chapter).

Yer my bad, switched the numbers around, but the 13th founding has no cursed fluff as Jareddm was saying. Not rereading post before posting mkes you look like an idiot, kids silly me.

BluntmanDC wrote:The Exorcists were and still are a pet project of the Inquisitionn, as clearly shown in their fluff, they are made so that they are uncorruptable by Deamons through the self-forced expulsion of a deamon.

The 21st founding has no reports of being cursed, it is called the Dark Founding because of the lack of official records.

The question I was trying to address was why were the Exorcists chosen for this little Inquisitorial/GK project involving purposful implantation and expulsion of daemons and not any other chapter? What makes the Exorcists special (Besides having the perfect fitting name)? The theory I'm providing is that this particular founding may have happened to have been prophesized through imperial tarot and other divinations as being during a time of great significance. That those chapters founded during it would be connected, on a spiritual level, to this event. Perhaps a particularly rare convergence of warp storms or the anniversary of a great daemon prince's ascendence.

It might explain why the chapters involved in this founding are mostly kept hidden from more general knowledge. The fact that those chapters were part of the 13th founding may be something that other powers (Chaos, Eldar) may be able to take advantage of if that knowledge was known to them.

BluntmanDC wrote:

jareddm wrote:Perhaps he's looking for a comparison with the 13th founding and the 21st founding?

In my opinion, the cause of the 21st founding's problems was man-made. Mortals tampering with geneseed in ways they didn't understand. Whereas the 13th founding is psychic or spiritual in nature, like being born under a bad omen or star sign.

As for how this relates to the two chapters in question...I'm not really sure. The exorcists may have an unusual connection to sentient creatures of the warp, something the Grey Knights wished to take advantage of. This would be an interesting theory as to the origins of their unusual practices.

WHAT?

The Exorcists were and still are a pet project of the Inquisitionn, as clearly shown in their fluff, they are made so that they are uncorruptable by Deamons through the self-forced expulsion of a deamon.

The 21st founding has no reports of being cursed, it is called the Dark Founding because of the lack of official records.

21st Founding is "cursed" because the high lords or Terra screwed around with the geneseed trying to fix flaws like the black rage in the blood angels and resulted in stuff like marines with horns growing from their arms and marines that catch on fire and the lamenters. Also I think they stopped everything when fabius bile found out because he would probably steal their research to make some kind of monster marines.

jareddm wrote:
The question I was trying to address was why were the Exorcists chosen for this little Inquisitorial/GK project involving purposful implantation and expulsion of daemons and not any other chapter? What makes the Exorcists special (Besides having the perfect fitting name)?

The Exorcists were not chosen for this project as they did not exist before it.

Some inquisitors had an idea and were able to convince the High Lords to be involved in the creation of one of the chapters during the founding, it could have only been allowed for a currently unfounded chapter as no active chapter would have allowed it.

I know that they weren't around before the project got started. When I say "chosen" I mean why this one particular group and not one of the other chapters that were part of the 13th founding? Were ALL of the chapters that were part of the 13th founding special requests from various special interest groups? If that's the case than perhaps the Steel Confessors were also a 13th founding chapter as their founding was mandated for the Adeptus Mechanicus's personal use?

Wouldn't that be an interesting reason to cover up a founding...

Not really, having a strong tie to a specific organisation in the IoM wouldn't need to be kept secret, especial seeing as every chapter knows that the Exorcists work with the Ordo Malleus.

High Lords "here i chapter 13d, let us hope your plan does not fail."
Inquisitors "thank you high lords."

It would make no difference which of the chapters they were given seeing as none of the chapters existed, except in the theoretical sence.

There's a difference between having a strong tie to an organization and being specifically created for that organization's use. That's why the Steel Confessors got so much flak about their founding.

IIRC, it is rumored that the Exorcists were based on the GK geneseed. Hence their close ties to the Inquisition.

Naturally its all very vague and inconclusive.

Black Dragons! How can you list 21st founding chapters and not list the black dragons!!!

end fanboy-isms...

Don't see much confusion with the 13th founding... just a lot of vague and shadowy plays. Just like how GW likes it... so ambiguous that everyone itches for a straight answer...

21st on the other hand (begin fanboy-isms) Is cursed... and basically every chapter that was founded then has some sort of mutation that make other chapters a little uneasy

jareddm wrote:There's a difference between having a strong tie to an organization and being specifically created for that organization's use. That's why the Steel Confessors got so much flak about their founding.

No the reason Mars and the Steel Confessors got so much flak was that it was an unoffical founding without the knowledge of the High Lords, the 13th founding was an official founding.