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Right now I have about 800 points in my list. I'd like to bump it up some, simply because I'd like to start transitioning into higher point games, albeit a bit slowly. I don't have the money more any new models, but I have a couple of extra models that I could use to specify the character. What I'm asking is which CCS add-on would be most useful. I have 3 vet squads with camo cloaks and lasguns, a heavy weapon squad, an armored sentinel, and an artillery piece. I mostly play gun line, and it works fine for me.

Right now, it's a tossup between Creed and Straken. What should I get?

(I'm not sure if this belongs here or general also)

I wouldn't bother with creed. You've got to have both a LOT of HWSs AND a bunch of stuff outflanking to make him better than either a second CCS or Al'rahem.

Straken is okay, but it depends on how much you want your CCS. It doesn't look like you're going to use that CCS enough to want creed, but if you still want to use orders at all, then you're either going to want to pass on straken or take a second CCS to give straken to.

Another thing to consider if you want a character that buffs your army and is beeftanky in his own right AND uses up a lot of points - you could consider yarrick. One of the interesting thing about yarrick is that he can make vets good in close combat - both a squad that he is in, but also any nearby squads who gain stubborn and Ld10.

Giving orders to your squads is useful. Guard aren't that great in close combat. Since Creed can give 4 orders at a long range, he can stay safely away at a distance.

Now of course, modeling Creed is easy; as long as a commander model has two souped up las-pistols and body armour, he can act as creed (all Creed has in terms of wargear differences between a regular Company Commander is Hot-Shot Laspistols x2 and Carapace Armor).

I personally wouldn't get any characters outside of Marbo ever, but especially until we're talking 1500+.

Yarrick is a good, not the best thing in the game, but, as far as the IG goes, he is pretty tough. Him, 5 ogryns, and a chimera are good enough.

Marbo is by far the best IG character if you are expecting your points back.

Creed/Kell: Never had much fun with them. Not saying you won't, but, I only run vet squads.

Straken, once agian, never used him so, not sure.

Harker: I have used him pretty often in 2,500 point games and let him and a squad of plasma vets with a M/L infiltrate and hold objectives.

Bastone, not worth it, just my opinion.

It depends on what you want to do with a character. Creed/Kell is nice to make your other units better and straken is good for making the commad squad have a little bit of counter assault potential for when the enemy gets close to your line. Other heros would be cool too (if you wanted to model them). Al'Raheem's outflanking platoon thing is pretty cool if you want a slightly more moble army. Whatever tactics you use can really effect what you might want to do.

The Creed/Kell combo is awesome if you run a lot of HWS, but so pricey, and it seems you aren't doing that anyway.

I would go with Marbo. You will be amazed how he can get in the head of even an experienced player. A lot of people have him throw his demo charge as soon as he comes in, but I prefer to bring him in to cover behind enemy lines and move around back there, waiting for his opportunity. He moves fast, he can hit pretty hard in assault, and he contests objectives like nothing else.

Watch Rambo 2, you will know what to do.

BB

Point level is too low. IG special charectors are force multipliers, and simply not worth it <2000 points.
It's worth noting that Creed's command radius (woo I get to use maths) is 1,809 square inches, compared to 904 for two CCSs, so at the point that you need two CCSs consider getting him instead for 40 more points than another CCS, but you get to outflank a unit and you can keep him further back than a normal CCS.

Ailaros wrote:I wouldn't bother with creed. You've got to have both a LOT of HWSs AND a bunch of stuff outflanking to make him better than either a second CCS or Al'rahem.

Straken is okay, but it depends on how much you want your CCS. It doesn't look like you're going to use that CCS enough to want creed, but if you still want to use orders at all, then you're either going to want to pass on straken or take a second CCS to give straken to.

Another thing to consider if you want a character that buffs your army and is beeftanky in his own right AND uses up a lot of points - you could consider yarrick. One of the interesting thing about yarrick is that he can make vets good in close combat - both a squad that he is in, but also any nearby squads who gain stubborn and Ld10.

Pretty much this.

Ailaros wrote:I wouldn't bother with creed. You've got to have both a LOT of HWSs AND a bunch of stuff outflanking to make him better than either a second CCS or Al'rahem.

Straken is okay, but it depends on how much you want your CCS. It doesn't look like you're going to use that CCS enough to want creed, but if you still want to use orders at all, then you're either going to want to pass on straken or take a second CCS to give straken to.

Another thing to consider if you want a character that buffs your army and is beeftanky in his own right AND uses up a lot of points - you could consider yarrick. One of the interesting thing about yarrick is that he can make vets good in close combat - both a squad that he is in, but also any nearby squads who gain stubborn and Ld10.

This, basically. I find Kell really beneficial to field when using HWS's as some sort of backbone, Listen Up Maggots is pretty decent, using the LD9 of the Commander to order your Heavy Weapons isn't bad, and if the Commander dies anyway, there's no orders to give. He's really a 70 Point Upgrade, but the additional Regimental Standard makes him seem expensive.

I'd field Kell over Creed because Kell has a little more benefit overall than the Cadian General. For the Honor of Cadia and Supreme Commander would be missed, but Kell has more of an impact, having the Look out Sir! and a Power Fist/Weapon.

The other ones are kind of hit and miss. I'm not to fond of Straken; too aggressive in such an itty, bitty Command Squad. Cold steel and Courage and Man of Adamantium are ideal for giving some umph into some Guard blobs.

Harker is good for sitting on an objective. Catachan Devils essentially gives the Veterans the Forward Sentries Doctrine without the snare mines. Give them another Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher for some added bite.

I really want to like Al'Rahem, but Stalk the Enemy makes me not want him. Always having to Outflank doesn't really give him many options besides Guard Blobs, and depending on luck, they'd end up on the wrong board edge. Like the Wind seems like a good order though.

I do like Chenkov. Forward, You Dogs! is fantastic with marching Foot Guard. 12" Stubborn Bubble and Task Master can shove a Guard Blob pretty far up the board, while yes, the Commissars provide Stubborn also, any special weapon squads and Conscripts get Stubborn. Send in the Next Wave should be about 25 Points cheaper, but it has its own merits. Respawning blocks of Conscripts can really help contest objectives (especially if Chenkov is in the middle of the field).

Marbo seems like a Demo Charge, alpha-strike. So if any Artillery Nasties are set up, Marbo is your guy.

If Sergeant Bastonne was 75% Cheaper, he'd be worth taking. Listen Up, Lads! give your Vet Squad some flexibility and Never give up. Never surrender! is always nice, but not for 60 Points.

Avoid Mogul Kamir and Nork Deddog like the plague.

Just a quick correction - kell only gets the bodyguard special rule when he's with Creed. When he's with any other commanding officer, he couldn't care less.

Ailaros wrote:Just a quick correction - kell only gets the bodyguard special rule when he's with Creed. When he's with any other commanding officer, he couldn't care less.

Well, that seems rather... dumb...

Al Rahem doesn't need to be with a blob. He can twin-link his special weapons (including his own plasma pistol) and with an astropath they show up pretty much wherever you want, whenever you want.
Depending on who you're facing you could have the two bare-bones infantry squads from the platoon and rely on Al Rahem's special weapons.
Or you could outfit the blob properly, use Al Rahem to essentially give them fleet (can't remember what the order is called), giving you an assault range of 12" from either board edge, which with melta bombs and PWs and an attached priest, will kill pretty much anything it charges.

Testify wrote:Al Rahem doesn't need to be with a blob. He can twin-link his special weapons (including his own plasma pistol) and with an astropath they show up pretty much wherever you want, whenever you want.
Depending on who you're facing you could have the two bare-bones infantry squads from the platoon and rely on Al Rahem's special weapons.
Or you could outfit the blob properly, use Al Rahem to essentially give them fleet (can't remember what the order is called), giving you an assault range of 12" from either board edge, which with melta bombs and PWs and an attached priest, will kill pretty much anything it charges.

How can the Astropath make sure that they show up where I want when I want?
Say I want them to arrive in turn 4 for some lategame objective grabbing? Thanks to our Astropath they will probably show up way too early.
Also the order allows the models to make a run movement after you fire at a unit. (Sure depending on some weapons, you might be able to still assault.)

You don't have to bring them on turn 2/3 if you don't want to. You can choose to come in turn 4 and you won't even have to roll to come on.
And if you want to assault, just don't fire the rapid fire weapons. The shooting isn't important in that order, it's the free D6" movement.

Yeah, al'rahem is worth taking an astropath for. Any losses incurred by showing up too early are ameliorated by the fact that he brings so much stuff with him (that the opponent doesn't get to shoot until after he arrives). Plus, showing up too early may be unfortunate, but showing up on the wrong side is occasionally disastrous.

The only problem with al'rahem is that he's really expensive. PCS + character + astropath +2 infantry squads + upgrades for said infantry squads quickly add up. He's pretty good, but you've got to be willing to build your army around him (or at least to support him), as you would with any other 300-500 point addition to your list.

If you just want to throw in a character for the sake of having a character, something more like Marbo is going to be the smarter buy.

Testify wrote:You don't have to bring them on turn 2/3 if you don't want to. You can choose to come in turn 4 and you won't even have to roll to come on.
And if you want to assault, just don't fire the rapid fire weapons. The shooting isn't important in that order, it's the free D6" movement.

Does the astro path let you choose not to come in? Normally you don't get to choose not too...

Personally I like using the creed/Kell combo. I play a gun line and so being able to keep the ccs back and issue 4 orders from 24" on Ld 10 serves me well. The twin-linked heavy weapons and amount of lasgun shots you can get from this have saved me many a time. It is a lot of points though...

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:You don't have to bring them on turn 2/3 if you don't want to. You can choose to come in turn 4 and you won't even have to roll to come on.
And if you want to assault, just don't fire the rapid fire weapons. The shooting isn't important in that order, it's the free D6" movement.

Does the astro path let you choose not to come in? Normally you don't get to choose not too...

Usually, on a 5 or a 6 you get to choose, and with the astropath, you get to reroll that.

If you want al'rahem to show up on the left side, there's a 2/3 chance that he either arrives on the left side straight away, or you get to choose which side (and then choose left). Of those which throw down a right, you can reroll it for a 2/3ds chance again. In this case, without an astropath, the chance he'll come in on the right side is two in three, while with the astropath it's eight in nine.

Ailaros wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Testify wrote:You don't have to bring them on turn 2/3 if you don't want to. You can choose to come in turn 4 and you won't even have to roll to come on.
And if you want to assault, just don't fire the rapid fire weapons. The shooting isn't important in that order, it's the free D6" movement.

Does the astro path let you choose not to come in? Normally you don't get to choose not too...

Usually, on a 5 or a 6 you get to choose, and with the astropath, you get to reroll that.

If you want al'rahem to show up on the left side, there's a 2/3 chance that he either arrives on the left side straight away, or you get to choose which side (and then choose left). Of those which throw down a right, you can reroll it for a 2/3ds chance again. In this case, without an astropath, the chance he'll come in on the right side is two in three, while with the astropath it's eight in nine.

Bit of confusion there, Ailaros is taking about choosing which side to come in on when they arrive.
No, the Astropath doesn't let you choose not to arrive. If a unit is in reserve it must be rolled for, and if successful must be deployed. There's no option to save reserves for later.

oh, no, but that's not too bad of a price to pay given the extra security of knowing where you're going to arrive.

I mean, if I were running penal legionnaires, I'd definitely leave the astropath at home, as they're not going to survive more than a turn out in the open unless you've seriously damaged your opponent first. There are other units too, where it would be questionable, like rough riders or scout sentinels. For Al'Rahem, though, it's practically a must.

If you have a lot of HWS: Creed

If you don't: Yarrick

Based on your original post and what you've told us you own in terms of units, it looks like your army is still in its infancy. I think instead of wondering what special characters you should field to force your points higher, you should decide on a direction you want to go and get more units to help with that. Aside from that you said gunline works for you, I would consider getting another artillery piece (Manticores are fun), and more HWSs. If you do continue to head in that direction then the best special character for that I would think would be Creed for his order range and possibly Al'rahem just so you can get a number of units up-field when you need to via outflank. I think that combined with whatever else you can outflank with creed would increase the power behind a generally static gunline list.

Yarrick is overpriced IMO, especially once your opponents learn to get into base contact before he can get back up. A lord commissar can usually get his points back easier than Yarrick can. IC's probably wouldn't be worth taking in a small army, I would take Marbo if I were you.

Yeah, the problem with yarrick is that you have to pay a premium for stubborn. It's the same problem with Chenkov, and to a lesser extent the lord commissar. It's like GW failed to anticipate in advance that any self-respecting foot guard player of the future would shell out the points to give everyone their own commissar, rather than relying on bubbles of it from single miniatures.

He's still not too shabby, though, what with his ability to use this overpriced ability on SOME units (like give vets stubborn Ld10), and he's really not that bad in close combat either. There are things that yarrick can beat that straken can't. The reverse is also true, but given that straken + his own CCS costs nearly as much as yarrick, and that yarrick can just keep getting back up, and he's not THAT bad of a deal.

Marbo has never let me down personally.

I played against a guy who fielded Yarrick and a giant blob of 50 conscripts charging up the field with Chenkov in back waiting to do his stuff. Basically the strategy was to get into CC as quick as possible, do as much damage with Yarrick and 50 conscripts as possible, once yarrick goes down for good, return the conscripts to play with Chenkov. It was surprisingly annoying to deal with despite having 2 Leman Russes at the time. Once I did finally get rid of that monster blob he just returned it to his table edge and wrecked the unit I had sitting on his objective. Suffice it to say that game was a tie. Against the current meta of mech lists and anti-tank units, people usually don't expect that kind of thing. I sure as heck didn't.