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I NEED guidelines to avoid the nasty lawsuits.
look at Advetisement banners to the top right corner of the DAKKA webpages. some are miniatures SMEs, which provides either full miniatures (that looks alike GW products, for example. Victoria miniatuers (i think this firm comes from Australia). which makes retrofuturistic style line infantry models that, some products are either looks alike, or inspired by GW Praetorian IG (which GW excluded it from 'classics' ranges) or conversion kits (i've saw an SME selling Valks upgrade kits.).. some have been here for ages! how do they survive and not getting sued?
is there any golden rules for the newcomers of this business to avoid nasty lawsuits?

L.

Not the right place to do this. If you NEED guidelines about the law, see a lawyer. Even though there might be lawyers on here, they are not your lawyer, and they cannot give you legal advice even if they wanted to.

Trasvi wrote:Not the right place to do this. If you NEED guidelines about the law, see a lawyer. Even though there might be lawyers on here, they are not your lawyer, and they cannot give you legal advice even if they wanted to.

Can't agree enough. Take the time to find a lawyer who specializes in what you need. Make a appointment and give him your money so you don't get sued back into the stone age.

that will be an investment that is MUCH larger than what i expected. mew!

Going the lawyer route is of course desirable. However, if you are cautious I don't think you will have a problem. This entails creating your own unique aesthetic, background, and game. Copying someone else's stuff can lead to trouble. So steer clear of Space Marine equivalents.

Lone Cat wrote:I NEED guidelines to avoid the nasty lawsuits.
look at Advetisement banners to the top right corner of the DAKKA webpages. some are miniatures SMEs, which provides either full miniatures (that looks alike GW products, for example. Victoria miniatuers (i think this firm comes from Australia). which makes retrofuturistic style line infantry models that, some products are either looks alike, or inspired by GW Praetorian IG (which GW excluded it from 'classics' ranges) or conversion kits (i've saw an SME selling Valks upgrade kits.).. some have been here for ages! how do they survive and not getting sued?
is there any golden rules for the newcomers of this business to avoid nasty lawsuits?

L.

First of all Victoria Miniatures are not inspired by Praetorians they are inspired by the British Army in the 19th Century. That is why she doesn't get sued. I would suggest two things:

1. Talk to a real lawyer.
2. Learn your history and come up with a concept that is based off of historical designs and not GW designs.

spaceelf wrote:Going the lawyer route is of course desirable. However, if you are cautious I don't think you will have a problem. This entails creating your own unique aesthetic, background, and game. Copying someone else's stuff can lead to trouble. So steer clear of Space Marine equivalents.

This is better meow. =^.^=

Lone Cat, you're assuming that GW made up everything they make.

From what I'm seeing recently, with GW, you can nearly make an exact replica of a Space Marine and due to previous art, if you don't call it one, they can't do anything.

Can't steal from a thief I 'spose.

Your flag is Thai so I assume you are in Thailand which is the 'land of copy'

I have seen knock off everything for sale in Thailand. Does anyone ever get sued there?

If the biggest designers in the world can't stem the knock off's in Thailand will GW even try?

Of course a lawyer would be the best one to answer all these questions

1.) GW lawyers are not of this world. They would sue God for creating life if they knew his address. They actually sued a sculptor for a model, that had absolutely nothing to do with him, with every photo stating the correct sculptor. So nobody is safe from getting sued by GW
2.) Make your own designs independent from GW designs. Or use designs that are public domain like historic uniforms or myths. Or at least make sure that it contains 50% original design by you.

Doing things "right" does not mean you won't get sued. Also, copyright law is murky and subjective. I agree that you would be best off if you consulted a lawyer, but you're honestly not going to get definitive answers about a specific product or products from any lawyer.

If you move into the miniatures business, I strongly suggest taking the appropriate steps to insulate your personal assets. Consulting a lawyer to make this happens is more important that consulting a lawyer about intellectual property rights, in my personal opinion. That said, you won't always be able to completely protect your personal assets, so be careful.

At the end of the day, I think you should express yourself and make the art that you want to make. No one should be afraid to do that. If you want to make a business out of it, get professional assistance and make sure to appropriately protect yourself.

It might be a drag, but it would really help you to read the ENTIRE thread concerning GWs lawsuit against Chapterhouse.

All of your questions are addressed and answered in that thread.
If you can't be bothered to do that you will have to live with the following answer;

Learn the law (it is quite obvious you haven't even done a cursory search) or ask somebody who already knows it (contact an IP lawyer).


...

If you make something styled like something that is not an original design, you haven't copied the styling, you've copied the original design. If that is in the public domain you are golden.

For example, If you want to make Praetorian look-alikes, just copy British troops of the 1880s. That's what GW did.

Don't give them lasguns and aquilas. Don't call them Praetorians.

England should sue GW for copyright infringement.

Emerett wrote:Lone Cat, you're assuming that GW made up everything they make.

From what I'm seeing recently, with GW, you can nearly make an exact replica of a Space Marine and due to previous art, if you don't call it one, they can't do anything.

Can't steal from a thief I 'spose.

Wow, Emerett, you're really full of bad advice aren't you. This thread shows that GW can make any claim they desire when they sue, regardless of what you call it.

Lone Cat, I also advise talking to an attorney. Show him your proposal including any designs and decide what to do after getting proper advice.

For purposes of emphasis, I'll reiterate that seeking the advise of an attorney regarding potential copyright infringement will not get you a straight answer, so I wouldn't go into it thinking that you'll get one. The answers will likely get clearer the further one progresses to the extremes, but I'm guessing that Lone Cat is thinking about things that are in a rather grey area.

If you made a mold of a GW work and asked your lawyer if it was okay to cast copies and sell them, the answer would be a firm "no." If you take photographs of whales and asked your lawyer if doing that infringed a GW copyright, the answer would most likely be "probably not."

When you get closer to the middle, it is hard for anyone to give a definitive answer because there's not much to go on. Because of the way copyright law works, you don't even know the scope of a copyright until it is asserted. It isn't like patent or trademark law where you ostensibly have a pretty solid understanding of the boundaries of protection and the public has been put on notice of those boundaries.

Also, the best legal advise in the world will not indemnify you from liability in a copyright infringement case, nor will it prevent a party from filing a lawsuit in the first place, so if you get proper legal advise, it would be a mistake to think of it as some sort of "shield of justice."

It seems to me at least, that GW will eventually send you a cease and desist order for any miniature you make that people use for their games. It doens't matter if they have a legitimate claim or not.

Lots of people will just fold up shop after getting a cease and desist, instead of fighting it.

Find out if you job offers lawyer insurance.
My job offers lawyer insurance just like health and life insurance. 15$ a month gives me unlimited access to a lawyer (your issued one that will remain with you throughout your insurance) which does everything that...well....that a lawyer does.
If you can't afford one, find out if you job offers one. Our law insurance is through Metlaw, might just see about getting for yourself without work pitching in.

Never heard of lawyer insurance. The concept boggles my mind.

Breotan wrote:Never heard of lawyer insurance. The concept boggles my mind.

Yeah...they're annoying.

Especially when your sitting across the table from 3 high-priced lawyers for your opponent who refuses to accept any reasonable settlement when she is clearly in the wrong. We've got the injunction to prove it.

Newabortion wrote:My job offers lawyer insurance just like health and life insurance. 15$ a month gives me unlimited access to a lawyer (your issued one that will remain with you throughout your insurance) which does everything that...well....that a lawyer does.

That is incredibly cheap.

Don't make anything with skulls, studs, chevrons or Roman numerals since GW owns all these things.