Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Now as stated in the title, I play eldar or dark eldar, I am poor so I proxy most of my units (With models approximately the same size and correct baseplate) I have played multiple games with him and we usually split them but here is a guess of our games 6-7/10 for him 3-4/10 for me.
He runs one squad that gets me every time
(I don't know the exact details, but this is pretty close)
War boss, Boss pole, power claw, eavy armor cybork body( I think)
Grotsnik( The doctor)
30 Boys with 'eavy armor, ( I don't think he puts cybork on these, but he might)
Nob with boss pole and power claw.
Please help, I normally run 3 warwalkers with scatter lasers, Eldrad/Regular farseer to guide WW, wraithlord with Wraithsword and bright lance, 2 ten man sqauds of dire avengers (I would pop them into WS, but I simply lack the extra tank) we play 1500 points.
Thanks for atleast reading this.

A night spinner would absolutely wreck that squad, if you could manage somehow to field one.

With what you have try dooming the unit, and then unload with the guided walkers and bladestorm from the avengers. They simply will not survive that much of an onslaught.

Direswords are useless on the wraithlords, take an EML, or a shuriken cannon if you are tight on points. You need all the shots you can muster. Also, make sure you have dual flamers on the lords in case he closes in and you have to soften them up for an assault.

Do not assault him unless he is going to get you next turn or he is down to a few models.

Seems to me like he explicitly tailored his list to meet the eldar's weight of shots. Even if the unit is doomed, 75% of all wounds caused will get saved, resulting in all those shots killing close to no orks at all.

I would also disagree on the nightspinner, as an ork player I have found it pretty harmless. You are not guaranteed to actually slow the unit significantly, and even losing one out of six boyz does not hurt. I am much more terrified by a fireprism, or even three. You could hit the unit with up to three small AP2 blasts, ignoring both armor and FNP. The dok tends to clump the boyz up, so you will get decent amounts of hits out of it, too.

I also second the EML, if your opponent doesn't cybork the 'ard boyz (which is a terrible waste of points), you would get to ignore his armor cause much more damage due to AP4. Fortuned dire avengers with defender can also keep the unit busy for a turn if you get the charge, so you can squeeze out another turn of shooting.

Dr. Serling wrote:A night spinner would absolutely wreck that squad, if you could manage somehow to field one.

With what you have try dooming the unit, and then unload with the guided walkers and bladestorm from the avengers. They simply will not survive that much of an onslaught.

He can normally survive that a couple times....
A
ctually a bad thing is our flamer template is missing, so I can't use them, which really sucks.

We don't have huge variety of army's(Tau CSM, SM, Orks, Eldar and Darkeldar Plus he knows who he is going to fight), or terrain (Which really only sucks for him)
I was thinking about my next purchase being a fire prism, as I could use it. as another waveserpent if need be. It seems that No matter what I do he knows a list to counter it, one thing that really bugs me is that he does not write his list down, he only uses a calculator, not that I really suspect him of cheating, but hey, who knows.

TheWildHost wrote:
He can normally survive that a couple times....
Actually a bad thing is our flamer template is missing, so I can't use them, which really sucks.

No flamer template? Against orks that will realy make you suffer. As an Ork player the two things I fear are flamers and large templates. To beat orks you need to be putting as much hurt on them as possible. It dosen't realy matter what you throw at orks, some will go down. Get yourself a flamer template ASAP.

Print this and put it on card:

http://the-lost-and-the-damned.664610.n2.nabble.com/file/n5805256/blast-markers%255B1%255D.pdf

I think the changed the size of the blast but not the flamer.

Jidmah recommended the Fire Prism which is an excellent choice vs Orks. Even after you fire pie plates into his big unit, its still useful against everything in the book.

You should consider picking up some new units long term. The units you have are just not that scary to Ork players. Wraithlord while T8, go down pretty quickly to Orks in general due to Power Klaws. As odd as it sounds though a big unit of 10 Wraithguard are really hard for Orks to deal with. Fortune them, stick a Guardian with enhance to make them WS 5, OR conceal to give you a re-rollable cover save then just get stuck in after walking forward. Orks will need 6's to harm you if they do not charge. The Power Klaws you could take a wound or 2 on the re-rollable Warlock. I ran into it at the Colonial, couldn't even ding the unit up much.

Yriel was pretty boss vs my Orks to. I didn't really want to fight him as he has that Template AP1 thing if I remember correctly. He as in a unt of Wraithguard as well with a Warlock. It as really hard to get points out of that army. Fought it to a draw. It was a really fun game.

War boss, Boss pole, power claw, eavy armor cybork body( I think)
Grotsnik( The doctor)
30 Boys with 'eavy armor, ( I don't think he puts cybork on these, but he might)
Nob with boss pole and power claw.

This squad by itself as you wrote it costs 750 points. (Assuming they all have cybork bodies)

Its a really durable unit with a huge weakness -- rage. Use a single falcon/serpent to abuse 'One Scalpel Short of a Medpack'. Since Grotsnik's squad must move to the nearest enemy unit, just kite the deathstar around the board. Move it to the side, etc...

Be prepared to have another tank take over the role of your kiter, as he will likely shoot at it. This is why I mentioned a falcon (with holo-fileds and spirit stones), as they are a real pain to destroy. Edit : The wording of 'One Scalpel Short of a Medpack' suggests he must also 'run' to you when possible.
Its also worth considering nightspinner to slow him down and make him take some FNP rolls while being kited around the board.

Now, here is the next big step...Play the mission and not to kill the enemy. I cannot stress this enough. Your job is not to take down that 750 point blob, its to win the game.

Once you have his blob chasing your model in the corner of the board, grab all the objectives in sieze ground. In capture and control contest his objective and own yours. In annilation kill his other units and leave his deathstar blob alone.

There's alot of things you can do.

- 3x Fire Prisms and rain AP2 templates on him.
- Take Starcannons on all your war walkers and guide/doom for glory.
- Tie them up with 3x Wraithlords and pinch the warboss and Grotsnik first with your S10.

I would just keep doing what you're doing, but take the Avatar as your other HQ, and have Eldrad fortune the Avatar and Doom the orks. Boyz will need 5's to hit him because his WS10 and then 6's to wound. He'll be able to take a re-roll on his 4++ from the Warboss and Grotsnik, and 3+ from the boyz.

Shoot as much as you can until the boys get close (with Starcannon War-Walkers would really be ace, or don't, it doesn't really matter) and just have the Avatar charge in there. That unit will be locked up while the Avatar slowly whittles them down. If you charge the orks (and don't allow them to charge you), you will greatly reduce the number of attacks they can bring back against you. Then after the squad drops down to less than 15 - 20 or so, you can bring in a unit of Howling Banshees or something to finish the job. Just make sure you have the Avatar target Grotsnik or the Warboss 1st to reduce the number of Powerklaws you have to deal with. I forget if he is WS4 or not, otherwise he'll be hitting on 5's too, but the Warboss is T5, so the Avatar only wounds him on 3's, but they should be Doomed, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

The Avatar should barely take a wound from the 30 regular boyz if they aren't charging, and if he can knock out Grotsnik or the Warboss, that combat should last a long time in your favor. If you are also whittling them down with shooting either from Prism's or Starcannons before the Avatar gets there, its even better in the Avatar's favor. Someone else mentioned Eldar Missile Launchers, those would work out as well because I believe the Plasma missiles are AP4, enough to knock out the 'Eavy Armor as well.

labmouse42 wrote:

War boss, Boss pole, power claw, eavy armor cybork body( I think)
Grotsnik( The doctor)
30 Boys with 'eavy armor, ( I don't think he puts cybork on these, but he might)
Nob with boss pole and power claw.

This squad by itself as you wrote it costs 750 points. (Assuming they all have cybork bodies)

Its a really durable unit with a huge weakness -- rage. Use a single falcon/serpent to abuse 'One Scalpel Short of a Medpack'. Since Grotsnik's squad must move to the nearest enemy unit, just kite the deathstar around the board. Move it to the side, etc...

Be prepared to have another tank take over the role of your kiter, as he will likely shoot at it. This is why I mentioned a falcon (with holo-fileds and spirit stones), as they are a real pain to destroy. Edit : The wording of 'One Scalpel Short of a Medpack' suggests he must also 'run' to you when possible.
Its also worth considering nightspinner to slow him down and make him take some FNP rolls while being kited around the board.

Now, here is the next big step...Play the mission and not to kill the enemy. I cannot stress this enough. Your job is not to take down that 750 point blob, its to win the game.

Once you have his blob chasing your model in the corner of the board, grab all the objectives in sieze ground. In capture and control contest his objective and own yours. In annilation kill his other units and leave his deathstar blob alone.

at 750 points he shouldn have much else - avoid the unit as long as possible, take fast units that can stay out of charge distance, and take everything else down first.

Proxxy in a bunch of Grotesques with Urien Rakarth and a Talos! Then watch as his orks get utterly wrecked. Grots are nasty business and can take volleys of lascannon fire and scores upon scores of small arms before even they even begin to fall apart.

If he isn't expecting them it will be a bad day for him.

RFHolloway wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:

War boss, Boss pole, power claw, eavy armor cybork body( I think)
Grotsnik( The doctor)
30 Boys with 'eavy armor, ( I don't think he puts cybork on these, but he might)
Nob with boss pole and power claw.

This squad by itself as you wrote it costs 750 points. (Assuming they all have cybork bodies)

Its a really durable unit with a huge weakness -- rage. Use a single falcon/serpent to abuse 'One Scalpel Short of a Medpack'. Since Grotsnik's squad must move to the nearest enemy unit, just kite the deathstar around the board. Move it to the side, etc...

Be prepared to have another tank take over the role of your kiter, as he will likely shoot at it. This is why I mentioned a falcon (with holo-fileds and spirit stones), as they are a real pain to destroy. Edit : The wording of 'One Scalpel Short of a Medpack' suggests he must also 'run' to you when possible.
Its also worth considering nightspinner to slow him down and make him take some FNP rolls while being kited around the board.

Now, here is the next big step...Play the mission and not to kill the enemy. I cannot stress this enough. Your job is not to take down that 750 point blob, its to win the game.

Once you have his blob chasing your model in the corner of the board, grab all the objectives in sieze ground. In capture and control contest his objective and own yours. In annilation kill his other units and leave his deathstar blob alone.

at 750 points he shouldn have much else - avoid the unit as long as possible, take fast units that can stay out of charge distance, and take everything else down first.

Sadly, All we play is KP Annilation beacuase apperntly he does not like the others because his army is "Bad at those"
Yeah in the game we had the other day he had all of that, anouther thirty man sqaud with cybork, three rocket deff coptas, and a trukk with 12 boys with nob, plus 6 bikes which he uses for smokescreen. Is their 4+ Constant?
The advice I am getting his good and I thank you, as I am going to try a couple of things, I will update this next time we play a game (Which may not be for a little bit) and update a list.

Oh, I did not see that he had 'eavy armor, I assumed against doomstorms and guided scatter spam you were negating armor. In this case, an EML is a must to ignore the armor.

Also somebody mentioned the wraithlord against the dok or the boss. If you find your lord in CC, he should be in base to base(IC's have to move first to pile in/assault) and go for a coup de grace to take the dok out. The lord will probably die to a power klaw in a turn or 2, but take FNP out of the unit and you win.Dont waste those precious few S10's against grunts.

Make him play other missions, a good army should be able to handle all 3 missions.
Unfortunately the 4+cover is constant, but they are low LD and easy to run off the board if you can stick a wound.

TheWildHost wrote:Sadly, All we play is KP Annilation beacuase apperntly he does not like the others because his army is "Bad at those"
Yeah in the game we had the other day he had all of that, anouther thirty man sqaud with cybork, three rocket deff coptas, and a trukk with 12 boys with nob, plus 6 bikes which he uses for smokescreen. Is their 4+ Constant? .

Ok, it sounds like your playing TFG. If he does not want to "play those missions" because his army is "bad at those", don't play the guy.
If you really want to play him, and hes acting like a doochebag, then give it right back to him.

Play GK. Bring 3 psydreads to evaporate his koptas, truck, and bikes.
Play purifier spam, and burn his boys before they can attack you.

Dr. Serling wrote:Oh, I did not see that he had 'eavy armor, I assumed against doomstorms and guided scatter spam you were negating armor. In this case, an EML is a must to ignore the armor.

Also somebody mentioned the wraithlord against the dok or the boss. If you find your lord in CC, he should be in base to base(IC's have to move first to pile in/assault) and go for a coup de grace to take the dok out. The lord will probably die to a power klaw in a turn or 2, but take FNP out of the unit and you win.Dont waste those precious few S10's against grunts.

Make him play other missions, a good army should be able to handle all 3 missions.
Unfortunately the 4+cover is constant, but they are low LD and easy to run off the board if you can stick a wound.

Orks have leadership equal to the number of orks and are fearless above 11. In addition, most units can reroll leadership for the rough equivalent of ld9. Thus, most ork units are not easy to run of the board.

Kiting 30 orks is not as easy as everybody claims, as they have a huge footprint, and you have to stay 12" way from all of them(more if the Waaagh! can still be called), pretty much forcing you to clear out half of the table to be able to kite them anywhere. You are better off just tankshocking a fire prism/falcon into their middle and hope that you holofields don't let you down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:

TheWildHost wrote:Sadly, All we play is KP Annilation beacuase apperntly he does not like the others because his army is "Bad at those"
Yeah in the game we had the other day he had all of that, anouther thirty man sqaud with cybork, three rocket deff coptas, and a trukk with 12 boys with nob, plus 6 bikes which he uses for smokescreen. Is their 4+ Constant? .

Ok, it sounds like your playing TFG. If he does not want to "play those missions" because his army is "bad at those", don't play the guy.
If you really want to play him, and hes acting like a doochebag, then give it right back to him.

Play GK. Bring 3 psydreads to evaporate his koptas, truck, and bikes.
Play purifier spam, and burn his boys before they can attack you.

Or you could enter "POWEROVERWHELMING" to make all you units invincible. No, wait.

Why would you move down to his level, start a fight or even drop your army, just because of a situation which can easily be handled otherwise?

Just tell him before building lists that you'd like to play objectives, use the battlemission book or simply roll for missions like the book tells you. You know, because playing the same game all the time gets dull. Then he can adapt his army to have a chance at grabbing objectives and your game is going to be more fun. Ork's aren't exactly terrible at objective games if you employ a little bit of cunning, so there is no reason to ignore 2/3 of the possible game scenarios. Besides, even in objective games you win by wiping out your opponent, so he could just try to do that.