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So lets say we have a SM command squad (or imperial guard) with 4 plasma guns.
when shooting, must they all shoot at the same time, and the Get hot rolls be accolated to them evenly ?

example: roll 8 dice four of them are 1's so then i assume i need to put one Get hot wound on each guy
(rare but it happend to me, no one died thanks to 3+ and FnP)

or can i shoot each guy seperate

roll two dice four times, and lets say the four 1s that i rolled were entirley on two guys
so i have two guys with two get hot wounds each.


I dont have my BRB on me at the moment, let me know how you guys work this out.
thanks in advance.

There's a debate surrounding this, but IMO the latter is the correct way - roll 2 dice for each guy, if you roll snakeyes that's one unlucky plasma gunner.

Try reading this thread. It laid out most of our arguements about how it should go.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436324.page

Personally, I say roll them in a way that you can tell who the dice belong to and then resolve the shooting and get's hot.
Deal with shooting wounds and saves for the opponent and then take your saves and fnp.

There is a question over if the gets hot are allocated to models or to "model groups" but I feel the raw wording of gets hot! makes it clear the wound is on the model and resolved on the model himself. Hence if a model rolls 2 dice and gets snake eyes when rapidfiring with a plasma gun, even if both saves are failed only one model is removed.

Each plasma gunner rolls separately and any overheats can only be resolved against the firing model.

Cool, Thanks for the advice guys!

As said you should roll each plasma gun separately so the possible Gets Hot! wounds go to the right guy.

They still shoot "at the same time" - after declaring a target you will have to decide how many models fire and with what weapons. Shooting plasma guns in turn until you no longer need to would be wrong.

I'll just point out that although the gunner that shot is the one who is wounded, the Remove Casualties rules specify that the model that gets wounded is not the one that is actually removed from play.

So, feel free to roll them all together.

(Now that both sides have stated their arguments, let's let this rest, as there will be no agreement and the argument will be a war of attrition til one side gets bored or a mod locks)

Grakmar wrote:(Now that both sides have stated their arguments, let's let this rest, as there will be no agreement and the argument will be a war of attrition til one side gets bored or a mod locks)

Agreed.

Grakmar wrote:(Now that both sides have stated their arguments, let's let this rest, as there will be no agreement and the argument will be a war of attrition til one side gets bored or a mod locks)

Well said.

marv335 wrote:Each plasma gunner rolls separately and any overheats can only be resolved against the firing model.

This.
The firing model takes the wound so you roll for each gunner seperately. You have to for anything that gets hot.

Joey wrote:

marv335 wrote:Each plasma gunner rolls separately and any overheats can only be resolved against the firing model.

This.
The firing model takes the wound so you roll for each gunner seperately. You have to for anything that gets hot.

Fixed that for you. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just clarifying the actual rule.

Yeah that was my bad anyway, I got the words wrong.

rigeld2 wrote:

Grakmar wrote:(Now that both sides have stated their arguments, let's let this rest, as there will be no agreement and the argument will be a war of attrition til one side gets bored or a mod locks)

Agreed.

If only it were a raging argument about flamers instead of plasma. Then I could tell you not to start a flame war. Oh well.

delete this post.

marv335 wrote:Each plasma gunner rolls separately and any overheats can only be resolved against the firing model.

If it comes to a vote, this is how I always play it.

Makes sense to me since I would never try and take the Gets Hot! wound on a different member of a squad if there was only one plasmagun.

DoW

I don't think anyone has ever tried to say you can allocate wounds as you wish. Everyone agrees the wound(s) is(are) allocated to the firing model(s). The contention comes from the removing casualties portion. Some people claim, that since you have like models, if one suffers 2 wounds and both saves are failed (assuming 1 wound models), then 2 models have to be removed from the wound group.

Please read the link that I provided at the top of the thread, all the bases are covered in that. Unless there is anything new that can be added to the debate I think this thread should be let die.

Happyjew wrote:I don't think anyone has ever tried to say you can allocate wounds as you wish. Everyone agrees the wound(s) is(are) allocated to the firing model(s). The contention comes from the removing casualties portion. Some people claim, that since you have like models, if one suffers 2 wounds and both saves are failed (assuming 1 wound models), then 2 models have to be removed from the wound group.

Except "the firing model suffers a wound". It's very clear.

Like I said, that is where the argument lays. I'm of the opinion that only the firing model can be removed. Others disagree with this.

It's an interesting argument on both sides but I give the edge to the "only the firing model can be removed" camp both on fluff, logic, and RAW.

DoW

Grakmar wrote:I'll just point out that although the gunner that shot is the one who is wounded, the Remove Casualties rules specify that the model that gets wounded is not the one that is actually removed from play.

So, feel free to roll them all together.

I'm not trying to start something, but what page numbers do you use to assert this view of the issue? In my club, no page numbers, no one cares, and I have a Space Puppy friend who would love to make this argument for his plasma pack.

DogOfWar wrote:It's an interesting argument on both sides but I give the edge to the "only the firing model can be removed" camp both on fluff, logic, and RAW.

I'll agree with 2/3 of those.
Then again the fluff has never explained how a plasmagun gets rid of that excess heat. Does plasma spray out the vents? Release radiation?
Never a Tech-Magus when you need one...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lobukia wrote:I'm not trying to start something, but what page numbers do you use to assert this view of the issue? In my club, no page numbers, no one cares, and I have a Space Puppy friend who would love to make this argument for his plasma pack.

P24 "Remove Casualties" more on P25 with "Taking saving throws".
Basically the model the wound is assigned to doesn't have to be the one removed, it can be an identical (in game terms) model.
The argument was never about removing non-plasma gunners instead. The problem is more a single plasma-gunner rolling two 1's, wounds assigned to a single model but models removed are taken from the 'identical group'. This leads to the argument of 2 plasma-gunners potentially being removed.

The debate was lengthly, and really doesn't need to be started up again. If anyone has a view on this matter it has more than likely already been raised in the other thread, and already debated to death.

Edit for clarity

grendel083 wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:It's an interesting argument on both sides but I give the edge to the "only the firing model can be removed" camp both on fluff, logic, and RAW.

I'll agree with 2/3 of those.
Then again the fluff has never explained how a plasmagun gets rid of that excess heat. Does plasma spray out the vents? Release radiation?
Never a Tech-Magus when you need one...

the 3rd ed. SM book stated that it was coolant being vented.

Lordhat wrote: the 3rd ed. SM book stated that it was coolant being vented.

Hmm... Does it give more detail? Thanks, may have to try and look that up.
Purely fluff, but could that kill others around the gunner? A cloud of super-heated coolant as well as burning could also be toxic?

It's weird there are people who think that you can fire one plasma gun, have it Gets Hot twice, and then remove TWO plasma gun models.

Joey wrote:It's weird there are people who think that you can fire one plasma gun, have it Gets Hot twice, and then remove TWO plasma gun models.

The Plasma gun explodes in firey death and claims two victims but not the firer so it can strike again later in the game to doom the command squad!!

Joey wrote:It's weird there are people who think that you can fire one plasma gun, have it Gets Hot twice, and then remove TWO plasma gun models.

Is it any weirder than only being able to see one guy in the target squad yet shooting him so much that 6 of his buddies die?

VoxDei wrote:

Joey wrote:It's weird there are people who think that you can fire one plasma gun, have it Gets Hot twice, and then remove TWO plasma gun models.

Is it any weirder than only being able to see one guy in the target squad yet shooting him so much that 6 of his buddies die?

Actually yes, if you follow the RAW you can see that only one gunner can die if he rapid fires and you roll two 1's.

Where the rules state that any model, even those out of LoS and out of range, can be killed.

VoxDei wrote:Is it any weirder than only being able to see one guy in the target squad yet shooting him so much that 6 of his buddies die?

Because all those bullets are only aimed at the one guy - the shooters can't have any idea that his buddies are behind that wall and are spraying the wall as well.

DeathReaper wrote:

VoxDei wrote:

Joey wrote:It's weird there are people who think that you can fire one plasma gun, have it Gets Hot twice, and then remove TWO plasma gun models.

Is it any weirder than only being able to see one guy in the target squad yet shooting him so much that 6 of his buddies die?

Actually yes, if you follow the RAW you can see that only one gunner can die if he rapid fires and you roll two 1's.

Where the rules state that any model, even those out of LoS and out of range, can be killed.

Oh i agree with you. I was just pointing out him using real life logic in a rules discussion on 40k.