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Just got back to playing story mode as a femshep and it got me thinking about the ending again. Specifically what Bioware was trying to get at in its thing. I mean I tried typing into Google 'defence of Bioware ending' and only got the exact opposite. Has anyone posted any non-troll defence of it? I don't mean just indifferent or Shep got a good send off but somebody who actually read something into the whole thing. To be clear, I do not like the ending at all, but thought some impartial speculating on what Bioware was thinking is worth saying

a possible defence for me would be



* They wanted to reference that theme of sci-fi in films like 2001 A Space Odyssy, Star Trek the Motion Picture (esp) and the Matrix. God is a machine, trans-humanism etc. Casey Hudsons comments very much hinted at his desire to encourage speculation. He probably really believed he needed a cult ending to justify his game becoming a classic. Even if the theme goes over peoples heads, the sense you're doing something of collossal importance will still come through.

*It wraps up the whole organic/synthetic dilema which has ran throughout the series. It is thus a suitable way to conclude the series.

*it certainly amounts to a big shock. The shock factor works well in games like Halo and ME1 with the discovery sovereign is a reaper. Just as you thought everything was wrapped up OMG.

*Bioware like to have a bit of morally grey in its stories. Having you find out the reapers were actually trying to do a good thing by keeping order in the galaxy is a big game-changer n more deep than the evil insane robots everyone assumes they are.

*Since every character says bye to Shephard in a deeply mournful way then we can have a definitive quick-snap ending rather than drag out a long Return of the King style epilogue. It also allows the player more speculation on which ending they'll go with for the franchise.

*Too much dialogue explaining why your companions return to the normandy or why joker decides to leave will create bad pacing in the game. This stuff should just be taken out otherwise it will detract from the epicness of Shephard pulling himself through the mud to the final confrontation. They're clever kids they'll figure out a common sense reason like the catalyst discharge they heard would fry earth.

*Having fled we get a quiant little Garden of Eden reference with the crew or joker/Edi suggestive of the new hope Shephard has given us.

*So overall a nice artsy sci-fi ending which addresses the intellectual background material. Present trans-humanism as the only solution to this cunundrum, as a serious body of the literature contends and just pass of the Geth/Quarian peace as simple fan service. This isn't a contradiction since the change is symbolic of the things you've done. The player knows that synthetics/organics can get along; yet the reapers sincerely want more of a guarentee. But can he trust the reapers without believing they're tricking him. If Shpehard is the peace-maker who got geth/Quarians to make peace then he will concede to the reapers demand for synthesis. If hes a renegade who hates all machines then he destroys them or controls them. These machines have killed millions of civilizations, reasoning based on good nature just won't work, but destruction would simply fall flat. Instead Shpehard has to concede their principles but can use the catalyst to present a better alternative to the catalyst.

Many people have attempted to defend the endings on the official Bioware forums and been slapped down. No matter what explanations or reasons you give, you can not change the fact that the endings are terrible, not simply because people don't like them, but because they are inconsistent with the rest of the series, illogical, and flat out idiotic.

Shepard dying before getting to the beam and the Reapers winning would have been better than listening to the Star Child's absurd circular reasoning.

Tbh I can see what Bioware tried to do, but they just left way too many plotholes open imo.

As for the Garden of Eden thing, in my ending I took Garrus and Tali into the final fight(iirc). Both of them made it with Joker, he aint startin a new race with my partner.

As for the pacing, I think people would prefer the slow pace for a suitable explanation. Pacing slowing down isn't a bad thing imo, it gives the player a chance to chill. Though saying that when Reapers are destroying Earth, that part itself should be fast paced, you don't see people casually walking through a Warzone.

johnscott10 wrote:Tbh I can see what Bioware tried to do, but they just left way too many plotholes open imo.

As for the Garden of Eden thing, in my ending I took Garrus and Tali into the final fight(iirc). Both of them made it with Joker, he aint startin a new race with my partner.

As for the pacing, I think people would prefer the slow pace for a suitable explanation. Pacing slowing down isn't a bad thing imo, it gives the player a chance to chill. Though saying that when Reapers are destroying Earth, that part itself should be fast paced, you don't see people casually walking through a Warzone.

Well they were pushing synthesis since its the one you need highest EMS for, so the ideal image they wanted was EDI/Joker since it symbolizes the end of the trilogy n a new beginning. But even when I did it with Garrus/Tali it was pretty clear they were going for a biblical reference.

Thats true but they do give you a BIG pause where you systematically say goodbye to everyone. I swear Tali and Liara were all but wailing and throwing themselves on the pyre. Pauses or even radio dialogue as you're walking could have sufficed; though certain things cannot be explained. Even if Shep were killed your companions would have tried to reach the citadel since they were in the final charge but that already been said a million times.

I'am not sure about the extended cut. An epilogue is always welcome, but just in general, that sort of abstract sci-fi, almost by definition, can't really be explained in a rational way. The real irony is that Bioware and Casey Hudson pushed an intellectual ending and it is now being victriolically slammed by the very people who are most likely to read anything into the ending; not to mention leaving the rest of us confused. It was also a bad theme to roll with since these movies are about theme and not character whilst ME was for many people about that. Which is why they appeared to kill off Shephard for an incomprehensible reason rather than a detached and reflective way that you need to swallow that sort of ending. For example: 2001 no real characters its just the obelisk, Star trek is about the theme and we only kill off a random who nobody cares about whilst rest of the crew just along for the ride. To put it into perspective, if they had introduced a random love interest for Captain Kirk in the film, who had became the machine creature and then had him do the synthesis; I'am pretty sure it would have pissed a lot of people off to be messing around with characters like that.

BTW did anyone else get the Star trek the motion picture reference? God is a machine. Synthetic/Organics link together to solve problems.

If its the indoctrination theory, its genius.

If its not, its gak.

Karon wrote:If its the indoctrination theory, its genius.

If its not, its gak.

I totally agree. If anyone hasn't watched the indoctrination theory videos, please do so now.

Karon wrote:If its the indoctrination theory, its genius.

If its not, its gak.

Tbh I really hope Bioware pull off some awesome ending that isn't the indoctrination theory.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of it, but they way you come over is that its the only possible good ending for the series.

Heck probly anything would be a better ending than what we got.

This one has a reasonably good synopsis of what is wrong with the endings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E

There are also some links to other videos with alternate explanations of the ending(s) etc at the end of the video if I remember correctly. I know that user has some other videos on the subject (including the new ending content that is coming out).

Something that is so awful on so many levels shouldn't be defended by anyone.

The only ending that has garnered this much ill will(actually, its not even close) was Halo 2; and even then, that was more about a feeling that the campaign was cut short rather than an awful ending.

Their attempts to make the ending less awful with their DLC, I feel will be unsuccessful.

I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

purplefood wrote:I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

Out of 3,000+ people polled on the forums less than 5% agree with you.

purplefood wrote:I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

I agree with Purplefood, I enjoyed the ending, I went full paragon the whole way through and it lined up with what I imagined might happen. It was suprising and different enough for me to not be too cliched.

I don't mind being part of 5% that liked it, but I don't really care enough to defend my opinion against everyone else. It's a videogame afterall...there will always be more of them...

Amaya wrote:

purplefood wrote:I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

Out of 3,000+ people polled on the forums less than 5% agree with you.

The Bioware forums is largely made up of the most die hard Bioware fans, many of whom have been pissed since ME2. They're not the most reliable demographic (not that I disagree with the endings being bad).

Nobody who actually knows the Mass Effect universe thinks this ending is good.

Some people are too easy to please - those are the vast minority. I would say I am pretty close to this demographic.

When I'm saying the ending is utter gak after I tried to defend DA2, It's gak.

I too found the ending fairly enjoyable.

LordofHats wrote:
The Bioware forums is largely made up of the most die hard Bioware fans, many of whom have been pissed since ME2. They're not the most reliable demographic (not that I disagree with the endings being bad).

I've probably said this before but the endings were bad for many reasons, most of which haven't been the focus of the "Fix the ending!" movement.

Has anybody considered these ideas?

1. I am not entirely sure how a developer/publisher relationship works, I have never been in a position to know. What if EA demanded an open ending to Mass Effect so that they can continue to make games despite BioWare's promise that this is the end. Do they have this power? If so, the Indoctrination Theory could be a rebellion against the ending EA forced upon them, a deep way for people paying attention to determine that the ending wasn't what they wanted or intended.

2. BioWare purposely made the ending the way they did to make their fans wonder why a developer who has done such great writing on past games could write so badly and force them to search for hidden clues as to what really happened, in this case the Indoctrination Theory.

3. BioWare accidentally put in all of these subliminal clues, and their writing was horrible. The fans have grasped for a reason that the game was full of holes and created the Indoctrination Theory. BioWare will now take this community idea and use it to sell DLC and give that as the explanation as to why the ending was bad.

Either way, I'm on the side of the Indoctrination Theory, mostly because of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI&feature=relmfu

I think this is fairly definitive given the evidence we have from the game and BioWare's history. The discussion about whether or not anybody should be allowed to charge me money for the "real" ending of any video game is something I'm sure we'll be discussing as more DLC is released. I am hoping that anything confirming this theory is free to download.

P.S. I have heard there is going to be a free download expanding upon the endings but, from the press releases, they will not actually change the endings. Whether this release disproves the Indoctrination Theory or not I don't know.

I don't understand how anyone could enjoy the ending when the game throws every decision you've ever made out of the window, coupled with the fact you get the choice between red, green and blue endings; which are all basically the same thing.

Also, the starchild makes absolutely no sense. Nothing he says makes sense, at all. Not even a little. If you can defend that, you should reevaluate your feelings and knowledge of the Mass Effect series.

LordofHats wrote:

Amaya wrote:

purplefood wrote:I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

Out of 3,000+ people polled on the forums less than 5% agree with you.

The Bioware forums is largely made up of the most die hard Bioware fans, many of whom have been pissed since ME2. They're not the most reliable demographic (not that I disagree with the endings being bad).

The official forums are torn between preference for ME or ME2, so saying that they 'have been pissed since ME2' is a stretch. The opinion of someone who has played all three games is significantly more relevant than the opinion of someone who has played only ME3.

Also, pretty much every reason the endings have been bad has been discussed on the Bioware Forums at some point. The entire Crucible and Catalyst plot is derided by many and its fairly obvious that the ME team did not have a trilogy planned from the beginning.

Amaya wrote:The entire Crucible and Catalyst plot is derided by many and its fairly obvious that the ME team did not have a trilogy planned from the beginning.

Oh they planned a trilogy, but like many writers in multi-media productions they didn't bother plotting out a story that could carry over three releases and just decided to make it up as they went along.

<insert fail>

I know that when I'm writing something that takes more than one entry I actually have a vague idea what #2 and #3 are before I even start #1.

Amaya wrote:

LordofHats wrote:

Amaya wrote:

purplefood wrote:I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

Out of 3,000+ people polled on the forums less than 5% agree with you.

The Bioware forums is largely made up of the most die hard Bioware fans, many of whom have been pissed since ME2. They're not the most reliable demographic (not that I disagree with the endings being bad).

The official forums are torn between preference for ME or ME2, so saying that they 'have been pissed since ME2' is a stretch. The opinion of someone who has played all three games is significantly more relevant than the opinion of someone who has played only ME3.

Also, pretty much every reason the endings have been bad has been discussed on the Bioware Forums at some point. The entire Crucible and Catalyst plot is derided by many and its fairly obvious that the ME team did not have a trilogy planned from the beginning.

I agree. I have played them all since their intital releases. I liked all of the games, except for 3's endings. I started playing Mass Effect 1 again as of last week. I must say it is by far the best from a roleplaying perspectively. There is just way more interaction with npcs etc.

Never understood the ME2 hate. I have a friend from Alabama who swears that ME2 was where Biowares writing declined. My view is that it was great right up until after Andersons death. Then it rolled like the last twenty minutes of AI.



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Shrike325 wrote:I too found the ending fairly enjoyable.

In what sense?




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LordofHats wrote:

Amaya wrote:

purplefood wrote:I think there's a fair few mistakes but by and large i think the endings are fairly good...

Out of 3,000+ people polled on the forums less than 5% agree with you.

The Bioware forums is largely made up of the most die hard Bioware fans, many of whom have been pissed since ME2. They're not the most reliable demographic (not that I disagree with the endings being bad).

I'll judge from how a few of my closest friends have reacted

My friend from Alabama found out about the ending five weeks before the game came out and did nothing but be the biggest imaginable. When I actually saw the ending I was far more defensive of it in his presence because quite frankly he really got on my nerves during that time. If I was ever playing on the game he would rant about how he'd never play a Bioware game and how EA was the anti-christ.

Another, very much believed in the indoctrination thoery , found the ending deeply out of character and confusing. But he kept his discussion proper and reasonable.

My final mate was probably the most honest of all. He disliked the ending because it made no sense, but was loathe to associate himself with the ranters and so was never convinced by the indoctrination theory.

So quite honestly everyone in my immediate circle of friends and many others besides have said they've disliked the ending to a greater or lesser extent. Which is why I find Biowares defence of the game irksome since its tried to marginalize how much ill-feeling there was by implying that everyone who compalins is like my friend from Alabama.Not only that but they make statements that they're reading fan-feedback for DLC then state they have no intention of changing the ending. It would almost have been better if they had done nothing rather than raise hope and interest. If Casey Hudson had simply and plainly written explanation of his work like any writer then he could put the criticism to bed. The fact he hasn't is telling. We'll just have to see what summer brings.

Ending was fine by me too. Looking forward to the new one they do, but still I'm fine with how things turned out.

I think the problem was...

1. A lot of folks on the interweb didn't like the ending
2. They screamed so loud about it, like it was sparkly vampires or greedo shooting first, that everyone else had to jump on the hatewagon just because it was fun to do
3. See #2

There's a heck of a lot of things in life to get all bent outta shape over.. a video game isn't one of them. The ending might not have been the greatest, but I really enjoyed the ride and to me that's a lot more important.

Necros wrote:Ending was fine by me too. Looking forward to the new one they do, but still I'm fine with how things turned out.

I think the problem was...

1. A lot of folks on the interweb didn't like the ending
2. They screamed so loud about it, like it was sparkly vampires or greedo shooting first, that everyone else had to jump on the hatewagon just because it was fun to do
3. See #2

There's a heck of a lot of things in life to get all bent outta shape over.. a video game isn't one of them. The ending might not have been the greatest, but I really enjoyed the ride and to me that's a lot more important.

I agree with this post...

If you can ignore the fact that the ending makes no sense and doesn't really wrap up any of the decisions you've made throughout the series, then sure, I guess it is fine.

So I guess as long as I don't think about the ending and just focus on the pretty explodey colors (oh wait, how did Joker and the squadmates who were with me on the ground end up at the Mass Relay? overthinking again), then yea.

Xzibit picture is the best response to ending.

Necros wrote:Ending was fine by me too. Looking forward to the new one they do, but still I'm fine with how things turned out.

I think the problem was...

1. A lot of folks on the interweb didn't like the ending
2. They screamed so loud about it, like it was sparkly vampires or greedo shooting first, that everyone else had to jump on the hatewagon just because it was fun to do
3. See #2

There's a heck of a lot of things in life to get all bent outta shape over.. a video game isn't one of them. The ending might not have been the greatest, but I really enjoyed the ride and to me that's a lot more important.

Agreed.
I loved the endings. They are great endings.

The endings are realistic. If you don't like realistic endings were all the major characters basically die. Then you haven't read 1920's literature.

Too many people are focused on getting that perfect ending. The best ending is having earth survive and the human race to continue. The entire point of the series was to defeat the reapers. Not have shepherd run off into the sunset with tali or who ever your romance was with.

That is extremely cliche to do to this series. I give them a thumbs up for actually taking the time to get away from the stupid over done endings of everyone is happy and the hero is still alive.

The Hero has to die this time. Shepherd is a tragic hero like Gilgamesh, Hercules. He was a leader of men and he died saving the universe. I mean I hate it when people say "But the fleets are trapped in that system!"

Ladies and gentlemen the asari and the fleets have freaking FTL and it would take months for them to get back to their homes. Instead of seconds it would be months. There is still hope for the ME peoples.

The 'Space Magic' is nothing in particular. If you look at it sent out massive virused energy that attack cerebral core functions of AI. (destroy ending)

People die. These are video games, the developers can do whatever they want with the game. Because they wrote it. People constantly whine about these games not being good enough. This game was great! It wasn't sexist, it wasn't fascist! It was a pretty damn good game!

The last 15 minutes were good. they wrapped everything up for me. My guy saved the universe and killed all the reapers. He didn't have a relationship with anyone. My guy was still mourning Ash's death.

If you think you can write better than please send your transcript to Bioware. But they will probably say no immediately. Writing takes time and patience. The store for Mass Effect doesn't end with Shepherd, there are more characters and many more people's stories that haven't been told yet.

So my question is why all the hate? "Well the ending is bad! It didn't fix plotholes, it didn't let me have a hollywood ending, I wanted my crew back :( " Well Sadly mate its not in the game. Stop hoping for it, because Bioware has already said that won't happen. Its Their game. Not yours.

Sorry for my rant. And sorry for being rude and insecure. But guys seriously the main agruement against the game was the ending was bad. Well If you want a really bad ending, go play Fear 3 and tell me if that makes any sense compared to the rest of the series, or crackdown 2, or halo 2, or perfect dark, or duke nukeum, or For cryin out loud Metriod Prime 0!


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daedalus-templarius wrote:If you can ignore the fact that the ending makes no sense and doesn't really wrap up any of the decisions you've made throughout the series, then sure, I guess it is fine.

So I guess as long as I don't think about the ending and just focus on the pretty explodey colors (oh wait, how did Joker and the squadmates who were with me on the ground end up at the Mass Relay? overthinking again), then yea.

Xzibit picture is the best response to ending.

Well It may not make sense to you. But people just like the way it ended. Is it a crime to like it?

Asherian Command wrote:

If you think you can write better than please send your transcript to Bioware.

Funny that given said ending was so bad any Joe Soap could write a better ending. Heck some people would more than likely create a better ending that does involve Shepard dying but still fill all plotholes and give vastly different endings(like Bioware promised) depending on various choices throughout the games.

I don't care about Shepard dying or not, I would just prefer to know how the plotholes are gonna be filled.

Well It may not make sense to you. But people just like the way it ended. Is it a crime to like it?

Not a crime to like it but most of the hate/confusion is from the plotholes as mentioned.

johnscott10 wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

If you think you can write better than please send your transcript to Bioware.

Funny that given said ending was so bad any Joe Soap could write a better ending. Heck some people would more than likely create a better ending that does involve Shepard dying but still fill all plotholes and give vastly different endings(like Bioware promised) depending on various choices throughout the games.

I don't care about Shepard dying or not, I would just prefer to know how the plotholes are gonna be filled.

Well It may not make sense to you. But people just like the way it ended. Is it a crime to like it?

Not a crime to like it but most of the hate/confusion is from the plotholes as mentioned.

I really can't see the plot holes to be honest

minus the plot holes. Its still a fanastic game.... Unlike fear 3.

Asherian Command wrote:

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daedalus-templarius wrote:If you can ignore the fact that the ending makes no sense and doesn't really wrap up any of the decisions you've made throughout the series, then sure, I guess it is fine.

So I guess as long as I don't think about the ending and just focus on the pretty explodey colors (oh wait, how did Joker and the squadmates who were with me on the ground end up at the Mass Relay? overthinking again), then yea.

Xzibit picture is the best response to ending.

Well It may not make sense to you. But people just like the way it ended. Is it a crime to like it?

Not make sense to me; make sense period.

The ending doesn't make sense, there are giant plot holes and inconsistencies galore.

I have no problem with Shepherd dying; hell I wouldn't have had a problem with humanity and everyone else being wiped out because the Reapers lured all of their military strength to one location with that joke of a macguffin to wipe them all out. That would have at least made sense.

Instead we get starkid telling us he is using his synthetics to kill all non-synthetics so synthetics don't kill all non-synthetics.

I never said the game wasn't good, I actually thought everything up until the very ending was great. It just makes that gak ending all the more painful.

Asherian Command wrote:
I really can't see the plot holes to be honest

I just... I just can't...

Asherian Command wrote:minus the plot holes. Its still a fanastic game.... Unlike fear 3.

Ill agree to that, though I never played Fear 3